haha you beat me to it, I guess Im lucky or he would've called me an a$$hole.
- MBFlyerfan

Fans around here think Patrick is worse than he actually is. Oh boy.

Fans around here think Patrick is worse than he actually is. Oh boy.
- SuperSchennBros

Honestly, we’ll really never know how good he might have been. I feel bad for the guy, you never want to see a players career derailed by injury.

Honestly, we’ll really never know how good he might have been. I feel bad for the guy, you never want to see a players career derailed by injury.
- BiggE

No question. He was a bust, no argument but he’s not Alexander Daigle or Nail Yakupov who pretty much just lost interest.

Honestly, we’ll really never know how good he might have been. I feel bad for the guy, you never want to see a players career derailed by injury.
- BiggE

I don't care what anyone says, but the history of injuries were known and I have a hard time believing things just magically appeared to become chronic issues. The biggest slight on NoPa prior to the draft was...his injury history, but the Flyers said over and over they did their due diligence to clear everything. I even wanted to select NoPa, but only because the Flyers said there were no issues to worry about, well last time I believe they are competent enough to say such a thing.

Last year the excuse could easily be "they had to pick him, no way they could pass on him". Now it's 2022 and 3 teams passed on the CONSENSUS #1 Shane Wright and there had to be a reason they felt strong about that. I'm not worried about the what-ifs and the only thing that matters is did they pick the right guy years later.

I don't care what anyone says, but the history of injuries were known and I have a hard time believing things just magically appeared to become chronic issues. The biggest slight on NoPa prior to the draft was...his injury history, but the Flyers said over and over they did their due diligence to clear everything. I even wanted to select NoPa, but only because the Flyers said there were no issues to worry about, well last time I believe they are competent enough to say such a thing.

Last year the excuse could easily be "they had to pick him, no way they could pass on him". Now it's 2022 and 3 teams passed on the CONSENSUS #1 Shane Wright and there had to be a reason they felt strong about that. I'm not worried about the what-ifs and the only thing that matters is did they pick the right guy years later.
- Glak18

The injuries I was seeing since being drafted was trauma to the head. Not a nagging knee or shoulder or something like that.

Giroux might be the third best player to play for the Flyers in their history. Think about it. It’s always going to Bobby Clarke and than everyone else. Regardless of how Lindros’ career ended or the relationship split between him and the organization, Eric Lindros is number two. After that you can take your pick but knowing what we know today about Giroux, how can Claude Giroux not be number 3 as one of the all time great Flyers? Multiple Hart nominations and 90/100 plus point seasons aside, Giroux had seen and done it all as a Flyer from being on bottom feeder teams to a Stanley Cup Final appearance. Giroux would have to be on my list for all time hard working Flyers because of noted nagging injuries with his hip and still played at the highest possible level, only to return the following season and be our top point producer most seasons. Now I get it, G moving on is still fresh but in ten years from now, you’ll be talking about him the same way you’re talking about Brind’Amour, Clarke or Poulin.
- SuperSchennBros

I struggle to put Giroux with some of these other players simply because of the lack of team success during his time here. I know he lacked talent around him, but it's hard to put him up too high on a pedestal when the team virtually did nothing in the playoffs if they even made the playoffs. All the other players either won Cups or were part of long playoff runs multiple times. It simply can't be ignored.

I struggle to put Giroux with some of these other players simply because of the lack of team success during his time here. I know he lacked talent around him, but it's hard to put him up too high on a pedestal when the team virtually did nothing in the playoffs if they even made the playoffs. All the other players either won Cups or were part of long playoff runs multiple times. It simply can't be ignored.
- Phillywhiteout

Giroux’s first four post season appearances with proper support of talent had 55 points in 50 games, all while being under the age of 24. Even Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid need a supporting cast to have success in the playoffs, with McDavid only this pasted post season getting out of the first round for the second time. Do you think the Oilers and fans alike diminish the talent McDavid is due to lack of playoff success in his young career by being Cupless? In 7 seasons, McDavid has also missed the playoffs 3 times. My comment is strictly about the player, not the team. After all it is a team sport.

Giroux’s first four post season appearances with proper support of talent had 55 points in 50 games, all while being under the age of 24. Even Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid need a supporting cast to have success in the playoffs, with McDavid only this pasted post season getting out of the first round for the second time. Do you think the Oilers and fans alike diminish the talent McDavid is due to lack of playoff success in his young career by being Cupless? In 7 seasons, McDavid has also missed the playoffs 3 times. My comment is strictly about the player, not the team. After all it is a team sport.
- SuperSchennBros

Yeah, I wasn't really being critical of Giroux per se, but it is a team sport(as you said) and the teams that he was the face/leader of really lacked success and that may skew folks opinions of him being included with the other names that were mentioned (fairly or unfairly). The other players that were mentioned were on successful teams and they are still revered today. Do you think the teams that Giroux has been on for the last decade are going to be remembered 20/30/40 years from now? Again, not a shot at Giroux. Just looking at it from a different perspective.

Yeah, I wasn't really being critical of Giroux per se, but it is a team sport(as you said) and the teams that he was the face/leader of really lacked success and that may skew folks opinions of him being included with the other names that were mentioned (fairly or unfairly). The other players that were mentioned were on successful teams and they are still revered today. Do you think the teams that Giroux has been on for the last decade are going to be remembered 20/30/40 years from now? Again, not a shot at Giroux. Just looking at it from a different perspective.
- Phillywhiteout

I think the 2010 team will very much be remembered. Giroux was a big part of that 2010 run, as a third line center who produced regularly playing next to Aaron Asham of all players. It’s not like the 1997 team has been easily forgotten. The Legion of Doom are a major part of Flyers history.

Here are the 2022 NHL point total odds for the Metro Division (Draft kings)

Carolina Hurricanes 102.5
Pittsburgh Penguins 102.5
New York Rangers 99.5
Washington Capitals 95.5
New York Islanders 93.5
New Jersey Devils 90.5
Columbus Blue Jackets 80.5
Philadelphia Flyers 76.5

It looks like they are expecting the Islanders, Devils and Flyers to be significantly better this season, thus reducing the top team's points. If I'm picking knowing only what I know about the teams right now, I would pick:

Carolina - Over
Pittsburgh - Under
Rangers - Over
Caps - Under
Islanders - Under
Devils - Under (they had 63 point last year, are they really this much better?)
Blue Jackets - Over (they got 80 pts last year and they are better IMO)
Flyers - Under (tough one to pick, a lot of unknowns)

What do you all think?

Just for fun, here’s the laziest, all time don’t give a damn teams

First team
G- Roman Cechmanek
D- Keith Yandle (if he gave a damn, he’d have retired last October!)
D- Rick “fatso” Foley
LW- Kyle Calder
C- Alexandre Daigle
RW- Pavel Brendl

Second Team
G- Ilya Bryzgalov
D- Willie Huber
D- Janne Niinimaa
LW- Kevin Stevens
C- Mike Bullard
RW- Dennis Ververgaert
- BiggE

No mike york?

haha you beat me to it, I guess Im lucky or he would've called me an a$$hole.
- MBFlyerfan

I took one for you.

I don't care what anyone says, but the history of injuries were known and I have a hard time believing things just magically appeared to become chronic issues. The biggest slight on NoPa prior to the draft was...his injury history, but the Flyers said over and over they did their due diligence to clear everything. I even wanted to select NoPa, but only because the Flyers said there were no issues to worry about, well last time I believe they are competent enough to say such a thing.

Last year the excuse could easily be "they had to pick him, no way they could pass on him". Now it's 2022 and 3 teams passed on the CONSENSUS #1 Shane Wright and there had to be a reason they felt strong about that. I'm not worried about the what-ifs and the only thing that matters is did they pick the right guy years later.
- Glak18

The medical issues that Patrick has that have derailed his career have nothing to do with the fully recovered injuries he suffered pre draft. In my opinion it's not only the migraine and neurological issues but Patrick is also "afraid" to play for lack of a better term. It's a double whammy.

I don't care what anyone says, but the history of injuries were known and I have a hard time believing things just magically appeared to become chronic issues. The biggest slight on NoPa prior to the draft was...his injury history, but the Flyers said over and over they did their due diligence to clear everything. I even wanted to select NoPa, but only because the Flyers said there were no issues to worry about, well last time I believe they are competent enough to say such a thing.

Last year the excuse could easily be "they had to pick him, no way they could pass on him". Now it's 2022 and 3 teams passed on the CONSENSUS #1 Shane Wright and there had to be a reason they felt strong about that. I'm not worried about the what-ifs and the only thing that matters is did they pick the right guy years later.
- Glak18

I read somewhere that NoPa did have migraine issues a few years before his draft, but they went away and it was not a known issue during his draft year. Still, the Flyers drafted an injured player with the number 2 pick overall while two stud defenseman and a very good center where still on the board. It will go down as one of the worst moves any Flyers' GM has ever made!

haha you beat me to it, I guess Im lucky or he would've called me an a$$hole.
- MBFlyerfan

Highly doubtful, as you don't act as one.

I read somewhere that NoPa did have migraine issues a few years before his draft, but they went away and it was not a known issue during his draft year. Still, the Flyers drafted an injured player with the number 2 pick overall while two stud defenseman and a very good center where still on the board. It will go down as one of the worst moves any Flyers' GM has ever made!
- jd250

‘Consensus’ is a best guess by a group of individuals. Some self proclaimed experts, some not. Some have seen the the players play, some haven’t, some base their opinions on what others are saying, and form the consensus from there Ie. the Bob Mckenzie and Corey Pronman. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don’t. I read an argument on here recently about how the Flyers should have taken Raty over Tuomaala because it was the consensus? Drafts are really ONLY ever graded using revisionist history….because sometimes a player is not as good for whatever reason as all the so called experts said. Just because your awesome at 18 doesn’t mean you’ll continue to get better as you get older. You can be the most Skilled, talented individual but if you lack desire or you can’t stay healthy or if you plateau revisionist history will say the pick was a dud and the consensus was dead wrong.

‘Consensus’ is a best guess by a group of individuals. Some self proclaimed experts, some not. Some have seen the the players play, some haven’t, some base their opinions on what others are saying, and form the consensus from there Ie. the Bob Mckenzie and Corey Pronman. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don’t. I read an argument on here recently about how the Flyers should have taken Raty over Tuomaala because it was the consensus? Drafts are really ONLY ever graded using revisionist history….because sometimes a player is not as good for whatever reason as all the so called experts said. Just because your awesome at 18 doesn’t mean you’ll continue to get better as you get older. You can be the most Skilled, talented individual but if you lack desire or you can’t stay healthy or if you plateau revisionist history will say the pick was a dud and the consensus was dead wrong.
- landros 2

Agree 100%. Everyone assumes players will get better. Just look at the Flyers roster for proof.

I’m a little surprised Giroux hasn’t been on anyone’s list in terms of hard workers. If Giroux wasn’t on any of these teams the passed decade, the Flyers probably become irrelevant many seasons sooner. Two Hart nominations without the 102 point season. One of the very best at the faceoff dot. All situations, all three forward spots, type of player.
- SuperSchennBros

The car in the right lane.

I think the 2010 team will very much be remembered. Giroux was a big part of that 2010 run, as a third line center who produced regularly playing next to Aaron Asham of all players. It’s not like the 1997 team has been easily forgotten. The Legion of Doom are a major part of Flyers history.
- SuperSchennBros

I think you are missing my point a bit here. In relation to Giroux I'm talking about the last 10 years when he was the captain. The last decade has been very forgettable. I agree that the Lindros era is a major part of Flyers history despite not bringing home the Cup, and the same for the 2010 team and their impressive run that was ruined by Leaky Leighton. The last 10 years however? Nah...

‘Consensus’ is a best guess by a group of individuals. Some self proclaimed experts, some not. Some have seen the the players play, some haven’t, some base their opinions on what others are saying, and form the consensus from there Ie. the Bob Mckenzie and Corey Pronman. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don’t. I read an argument on here recently about how the Flyers should have taken Raty over Tuomaala because it was the consensus? Drafts are really ONLY ever graded using revisionist history….because sometimes a player is not as good for whatever reason as all the so called experts said. Just because your awesome at 18 doesn’t mean you’ll continue to get better as you get older. You can be the most Skilled, talented individual but if you lack desire or you can’t stay healthy or if you plateau revisionist history will say the pick was a dud and the consensus was dead wrong.
- landros 2

Very true. This is why drafting can be such a crap shoot in hockey. You are drafting 17 and 18 year old kids. Who knows how they will develop in many cases. I mean, the guys that are drafted in the NFL for instance are 21 and 22(four years of college) for the most part. Those few years can be a big difference in figuring out how a player will contribute to your team in the future.

I read somewhere that NoPa did have migraine issues a few years before his draft, but they went away and it was not a known issue during his draft year. Still, the Flyers drafted an injured player with the number 2 pick overall while two stud defenseman and a very good center where still on the board. It will go down as one of the worst moves any Flyers' GM has ever made!
- jd250

I have never seen or heard of any pre draft reports if migraine issue with Patrick. It was not a known issue pre draft.

The car in the right lane.
- furio16

Congratulations. You’re one of two people who care.

I think you are missing my point a bit here. In relation to Giroux I'm talking about the last 10 years when he was the captain. The last decade has been very forgettable. I agree that the Lindros era is a major part of Flyers history despite not bringing home the Cup, and the same for the 2010 team and their impressive run that was ruined by Leaky Leighton. The last 10 years however? Nah...
- Phillywhiteout

Giroux is one of the great captains in Flyers history. Obviously not Bobby Clarke but Giroux will be remembered as well as his time here due to his production and achievements.

Giroux is one of the great captains in Flyers history. Obviously not Bobby Clarke but Giroux will be remembered as well as his time here due to his production and achievements.
- SuperSchennBros

What was great about him as a Captain?

I have never seen or heard of any pre draft reports if migraine issue with Patrick. It was not a known issue pre draft.
- MJL

Not pre-draft, he had migraine issues when is was much younger, 12-14 years old. I need to dig up that article where I read it.