All I was trying to say is that if we want to regress in the standings, then is it so bad we have an incompetent GM who is (intentionally or inadvertently - doesn't matter) helping us go that way?
- PT21

The problem is this GM is not leading this franchise, whether intentionally or not, to the promised land of high end talent and eventual prominence. The only reason the Flyers picked in the top 5 this past draft for example had nothing to do with Fletcher, who was clearly expecting this team to have a deep playoff run when the season started, and everything to do with the myriad of injuries. Even this off season Fletcher is still trying to bring in players to get this team back into the playoffs, for example the trading of good draft capital to get DeAngelo. If Fletcher truly wanted a "Stabilization" year, which on the surface I agree with, he would have truly did nothing this off season but try to create roster spots for this younger players to develop and accumulate more draft capital and cap space. Instead Fletcher has done the opposite. I have concluded Fletcher is the problem here, he has no plan!

There is also a difference between Frost and Tippet. Tippet didn't miss a full season of development due to injury.
- MJL

True, but based on what you have seen so far, which player's game better translates to potential success in the NHL? I would say it's Tippet's by far. If he can actually learn how to finish, he can be a really good player since he has good foot peed and size already.

The problem is this GM is not leading this franchise, whether intentionally or not, to the promised land of high end talent and eventual prominence. The only reason the Flyers picked in the top 5 this past draft for example had nothing to do with Fletcher, who was clearly expecting this team to have a deep playoff run when the season started, and everything to do with the myriad of injuries. Even this off season Fletcher is still trying to bring in players to get this team back into the playoffs, for example the trading of good draft capital to get DeAngelo. If Fletcher truly wanted a "Stabilization" year, which on the surface I agree with, he would have truly did nothing this off season but try to create roster spots for this younger players to develop and accumulate more draft capital and cap space. Instead Fletcher has done the opposite. I have concluded Fletcher is the problem here, he has no plan!
- jd250

3 years later, you finally realize what everyone has been telling you for 3 years.

True, but based on what you have seen so far, which player's game better translates to potential success in the NHL? I would say it's Tippet's by far. If he can actually learn how to finish, he can be a really good player since he has good foot peed and size already.
- jd250

Based on what? Frost has shown plenty of promise. Tippet has not stood out over Frost. If I had to choose, Tippet has played more game and not lost a season to injury. He has had more development time. So Tippet is more in the negative. I think this season is equally important for both players. If they don't take a significant step forward. Then it will be difficult to count on either player moving forward. Although I think the team should go to the extremes of exercising patience.

Scott is a guy who was the CFO of all of Comcast, as well as one of a handful of regional heads, both stints at times of explosive growth for the company. This job is a kind of a sinecure for him, but its not a retirement gig. However much you may point to CF's vapid incompetence w/ the Wild, there is NOTHING in Scott's resume that suggests he is unwilling/unable to take pragmatic/ruthless/clear sighted decisions.

So, here is another, less odious theory. Scott agreed that Hexy needed to go. The franchise believed then that Flyers were ready to take the next step. Scott did too. CF's first steps (Hayes, Nisky) were in line with this.

Then it fell apart, and there was Covid, plus injuries. He is being kind to CF and giving him some more time because CF was largely acting out Scott/Old-Boy's own ideas and Scott thinks some things were honest mistakes and pure bad luck.
- PT21

I agree with this assessment, but then once the "honest mistake" was recognized, where the is updated plan that the team is executing?? That is my problem now with Fletcher and Scott.

3 years later, you finally realize what everyone has been telling you for 3 years.
- MJL

I have explained this to you already, can't you just reply "I agree"? Does everything have to be an argument?

True, but based on what you have seen so far, which player's game better translates to potential success in the NHL? I would say it's Tippet's by far. If he can actually learn how to finish, he can be a really good player since he has good foot peed and size already.
- jd250

I agree with you here, but I'm sure others won't just to disagree with you. I certainly thought Tippet stood out more than Frost. He generates more scoring chances and gets to the net. Therefore, I noticed him much more than Frost. Yes, down the stretch Frost played better, but I don't know what people are watching when they say that Frost stood out more than Tippet. I'd like to see the scoring chance numbers of the two by comparison. FIRE CHUCK! Thanks!

Based on what? Frost has shown plenty of promise. Tippet has not stood out over Frost. If I had to choose, Tippet has played more game and not lost a season to injury. He has had more development time. So Tippet is more in the negative. I think this season is equally important for both players. If they don't take a significant step forward. Then it will be difficult to count on either player moving forward. Although I think the team should go to the extremes of exercising patience.
- MJL

Just my opinion, I just don't see Frost's game translating to the NHL. However I agree with you that patience is key, both these players need to play big minutes in all situations this coming season to see what they are. This is a big season for both players, and IMO further injuries will not be an excuse. Both players have to stay on the ice and develop, otherwise I would move on from both next off-season. I love Allison, but he can't stay on the ice, and thus he is not an asset for this team.

Based on what? Frost has shown plenty of promise. Tippet has not stood out over Frost. If I had to choose, Tippet has played more game and not lost a season to injury. He has had more development time. So Tippet is more in the negative. I think this season is equally important for both players. If they don't take a significant step forward. Then it will be difficult to count on either player moving forward. Although I think the team should go to the extremes of exercising patience.
- MJL

Will the “he lost a season of development” still be valid after this upcoming season? Or if he struggles, will we finally start to view him as a guy that isn’t cut out for a top 9 role on the NHl roster.

I agree with this assessment, but then once the "honest mistake" was recognized, where the is updated plan that the team is executing?? That is my problem now with Fletcher and Scott.
- jd250

You've argued vociferously against the idea of the old guard being involved. Now you're agreeing.

I have explained this to you already, can't you just reply "I agree"? Does everything have to be an argument?
- jd250

There is no argument. Only reality. When will you admit that you haven't come to any conclusion on your own and only have capitulated to what you can no longer deny after arguing against it for literally years.

Just my opinion, I just don't see Frost's game translating to the NHL. However I agree with you that patience is key, both these players need to play big minutes in all situations this coming season to see what they are. This is a big season for both players, and IMO further injuries will not be an excuse. Both players have to stay on the ice and develop, otherwise I would move on from both next off-season. I love Allison, but he can't stay on the ice, and thus he is not an asset for this team.
- jd250

Why don't you see Frost's game translating to the NHL?

In your opinion, further injuries won't be an excuse? So if Frost breaks an arm in training camp, that will not be an excuse?

Will the “he lost a season of development” still be valid after this upcoming season? Or if he struggles, will we finally start to view him as a guy that isn’t cut out for a top 9 role on the NHl roster.
- ClaudeFather

Depends on what your expectations are or were of Frost. I remember watching Frost play in his last visit in Detroit. Trying to dance through guys, I believe once drew a penalty. Making plays around him. He’s a playmaker. So he is gonna need talent around him to finish and we know this group just isn’t good.

Will the “he lost a season of development” still be valid after this upcoming season? Or if he struggles, will we finally start to view him as a guy that isn’t cut out for a top 9 role on the NHl roster.
- ClaudeFather

I believe that barring any further future injury. Frost should be healthy and fully recovered entering training camp. I think in order to solidify himself as an NHL player, he has to take significant steps this season. Especially offensively. I view him as a scoring line player so he has to produce.

I believe that barring any further future injury. Frost should be healthy and fully recovered entering training camp. I think in order to solidify himself as an NHL player, he has to take significant steps this season. Especially offensively. I view him as a scoring line player so he has to produce.
- MJL

Agreed

Depends on what your expectations are or were of Frost. I remember watching Frost play in his last visit in Detroit. Trying to dance through guys, I believe once drew a penalty. Making plays around him. He’s a playmaker. So he is gonna need talent around him to finish and we know this group just isn’t good.
- SuperSchennBros

He won’t be playing on the fourth line, playing with talent isn’t an issue.

You've argued vociferously against the idea of the old guard being involved. Now you're agreeing.
- MJL

This has nothing to do with the old guard, nothing at all. I am speaking about the franchise as a whole, what is the plan? I don't see it. Since Fletcher is the President/GM of the team, I expect him, and him alone, to be accountable.

There is no argument. Only reality. When will you admit that you haven't come to any conclusion on your own and only have capitulated to what you can no longer deny after arguing against it for literally years.
- MJL

You are a very strange person ...

Why don't you see Frost's game translating to the NHL?

In your opinion, further injuries won't be an excuse? So if Frost breaks an arm in training camp, that will not be an excuse?
- MJL

I'm sick of players that can't stay on the ice. Whether its because of their reckless play, lack of conditioning or just plain bad luck, if the player can't stay on the ice they are useless. In Frost's case, I just don't see his game translating into a top 6 forward in this league. He is just on the peripheral too much, doesn't use his speed enough, isn't strong on the puck consistently, doesn't have an overwhelming shot, etc. There is nothing in his game that is extraordinary IMO. Now, can he survive and play in the bottom 6, sure. Can he develop into a Scott Laughton type of player, its possible. But Frost IMO does not have the game that translates into a consistent top 6 forward.

This has nothing to do with the old guard, nothing at all. I am speaking about the franchise as a whole, what is the plan? I don't see it. Since Fletcher is the President/GM of the team, I expect him, and him alone, to be accountable.
- jd250

It doesn't?


You stated that you agreed with the assessment. Did you actually read it? This was the 3rd paragraph of the assessment you agreed with

"Then it fell apart, and there was Covid, plus injuries. He is being kind to CF and giving him some more time because CF was largely acting out Scott/Old-Boy's own ideas and Scott thinks some things were honest mistakes and pure bad luck."

I'm sick of players that can't stay on the ice. Whether its because of their reckless play, lack of conditioning or just plain bad luck, if the player can't stay on the ice they are useless. In Frost's case, I just don't see his game translating into a top 6 forward in this league. He is just on the peripheral too much, doesn't use his speed enough, isn't strong on the puck consistently, doesn't have an overwhelming shot, etc. There is nothing in his game that is extraordinary IMO. Now, can he survive and play in the bottom 6, sure. Can he develop into a Scott Laughton type of player, its possible. But Frost IMO does not have the game that translates into a consistent top 6 forward.
- jd250

None of what you state is accurate. Down the stretch of last season, Frost showed significant progress in all of those areas with the exception of his shot. Which was not on par of where it has been in the past as a player. Most likely due to lingering effects of his shoulder injury.
Does a player have to be extraordinary for his game to translate to the NHL? Extraordinary to means McDavid, Makar, Crosby, etc. So that comment doesn't make any sense.
Frost is not a comparable player to Laughton. Not remotely the same kind of player.


You may be sick of players that are injured but if Frost suffers another serious injury, that would be a valid excuse.

Actually I don't bring up Hextall a lot. Others do and I respond. I think when looking at the willingness of the fan base to accept a rebuild and to have patience. How the fanbase reacted during the Hextall years is relevant. It did not move forward fast enough overall for their taste. Right or wrong.
- MJL

couldve just stop at the bolded part. lol

It doesn't?


You stated that you agreed with the assessment. Did you actually read it? This was the 3rd paragraph of the assessment you agreed with

"Then it fell apart, and there was Covid, plus injuries. He is being kind to CF and giving him some more time because CF was largely acting out Scott/Old-Boy's own ideas and Scott thinks some things were honest mistakes and pure bad luck."
- MJL

I agreed that there was a push to accelerate the plan under Hextall and that probably came from Scott and Holmgren, Hextall didn't agree and as a result he got fired.

None of what you state is accurate. Down the stretch of last season, Frost showed significant progress in all of those areas with the exception of his shot. Which was not on par of where it has been in the past as a player. Most likely due to lingering effects of his shoulder injury.
Does a player have to be extraordinary for his game to translate to the NHL? Extraordinary to means McDavid, Makar, Crosby, etc. So that comment doesn't make any sense.
Frost is not a comparable player to Laughton. Not remotely the same kind of player.


You may be sick of players that are injured but if Frost suffers another serious injury, that would be a valid excuse.
- MJL

Frost's shot was not there because he was still recovering from his shoulder surgery that kept him out the previous season. Look, we'll soon see which player's skills translates better in the NHL, the season is coming up fast.

The problem is this GM is not leading this franchise, whether intentionally or not, to the promised land of high end talent and eventual prominence. The only reason the Flyers picked in the top 5 this past draft for example had nothing to do with Fletcher, who was clearly expecting this team to have a deep playoff run when the season started, and everything to do with the myriad of injuries. Even this off season Fletcher is still trying to bring in players to get this team back into the playoffs, for example the trading of good draft capital to get DeAngelo. If Fletcher truly wanted a "Stabilization" year, which on the surface I agree with, he would have truly did nothing this off season but try to create roster spots for this younger players to develop and accumulate more draft capital and cap space. Instead Fletcher has done the opposite. I have concluded Fletcher is the problem here, he has no plan!
- jd250

How can you be so categorical? It was Fletcher who took the gamble on Ellis and signed Risto. Collectively, that could have paid for Dougie Hamilton. He traded away Ghost, who, whatever you think of him, would surely have helped our transition game last year and also helped out in the rotating cast across from Provy.