I was hoping we could try something different today and pick a couple things we do like about this team.
- SuperSchennBros

The new Zamboni driver.

I was hoping we could try something different today and pick a couple things we do like about this team.
- SuperSchennBros

I like the fact that chuckles will get sh!t-canned eventually

The worse they do increases the chances of a full house cleaning.
- furio16

I guess this would depend on the Flyer’s true timeline (if in fact a plan exists) and whether that timeline allowed for a poor finish this season.

Your characterization that I had it in for Fletcher from the very beginning is not accurate. Your repeated attempts to try to make anything about Hextall continues to be asinine. Your new stance on Fletcher is not genuine. It is not knowledge based. It's simply you giving in because you know you can no longer support your misguided opinions. It took literally multiple years to beat it into you what the reality was. Every debate you and I have had, has ended in the same manner. Unlike you, I never hope for the team to fail. The Flyers should've been rebuilding during Fletcher's entire tenure. You were told that repeatedly. For literally years.
- MJL

I come to my own conclusions based on the evidence in front of me. There were some good moves by Fletcher and I was hopeful. To me the straw is when I don't see a plan. Some plans may work out, and some plans may not work out, but a GM with no plan is nothing short of a disaster. As soon as I saw enough evidence to conclude there was no plan here I jumped off the SS Fletcher. Hextall did a horrible job as GM IMO and deserved to be fired. I was happy Fletcher was hired at the time and was happy the team wanted to be more aggressive in getting their younger players playing in the NHL, but was also willing to spend again in free agency to push this thing forward. I gave Fletcher a shot. His first off season was great, he hired a proven head coach, and made some nice moves to improve the roster. 2019-2020 was a fantastic year and I had hope. Covid hit, 2021 was a disaster, but still I had hope. Last year with all the injuries and AV fuming out, I started to lose hope. This off-season when it was clear there is no plan here, that Fletcher is winging it out of desperation I concluded he is no longer the right person. So yes it took me multiple years, but I got there when I felt it was fair to do so. I don't believe you are genuine at all when you state you didn't have it in for Fletcher. You were not happy when Hextall was fired and have done nothing but defend Hextall to the end, even more so than I defended Risto. Just admit it, we all make mistakes.

I guess this would depend on the Flyer’s true timeline (if in fact a plan exists) and whether that timeline allowed for a poor finish this season.
- NC Flyers Fan

There is no plan. Anyone who thinks there is needs their head examined.

1-The Flyers haven’t lost a game is nearly 3 1/2 months;

2-No Flyers player was significantly injured in the last few days;

3-Gritty

Seriously, there are a few things:
1-Really enjoyed the line of Cates, Frost, Tippett - potential to be a fun line

2-Torts really was born to be a Flyers HC. If the team is the disaster (many of us including myself think) his pressers will be amazing. If they surprise and play really well, Torts becomes a star.

3-Carter Hart is still young with a lot of promise. Maybe a Torts installed system helps him regain his confidence and form and he grows in to that upper echelon goalie we all hope for.

4-On a negative note but something I like, I do like the fact that the fans have all come to the point where we are done accepting mediocrity, misdirection and seeming lack of a plan. The building won’t be full if the product on the ice is as expected and maybe that will bring about change.
- mikeyo27

I do like the idea of a Fiery coach who would stand up for his players and also keep them accountable. It really is the only way to get the very best of players in my opinion.

I like that we’ll be tougher than years passed. Tough to play against is awhile different story. I’m not saying we needed Nick deslauriers, we most certainly did not but at least we should get pushed around. Side note, if he can kill penalties, fans are really getting what they asked for. The knock on Zac MacEwen is he played limited minutes and cannot kill penalties. Regardless, let’s see how bad this fourth line really is before judgement. Maybe banging bodies and creating energy on the bench might help if they can defend.

I’m interested in seeing how big an agitator both Konency and DeAngelo might be out there. Could make things interesting to watch as well but they’re gonna need to back it up. I’m not saying just by fighting but if you take things too far, you might wanna answer the bell. I mean by scoring. If you’re gonna talk poop, be another element of impact with that style of play.

I like the Torts hiring.
Can he break the spell of coaches not lasting long here? I have my doubts.
I like that York, Frost, Tippett should be regulars in the line up.
Looking forward to seeing what kind of impact Torts has on Hart, Provy, Konecny, Sanheim.
- rayc16

We’re at the ground. We need a guy to start here with us and build this team up.

There is no plan. Anyone who thinks there is needs their head examined.
- furio16

Want proof? What is the plan to obtain top-end talent? If you are not tanking and accumulating 2023 draft picks then doing so via the draft is not your plan. So the alternative is you free up cap space to sign top end talent or trade for it when top-end talent becomes available. Keith Tkachuk, Johnny G and Alex Debrincat were all available this off season and the Flyers didn't try for any of them. Instead the Flyers spent $10.1M of cap space on Risto and DeAngelo. Then with no money for a backup the Flyers decide to bring over a Russian goalie with potential while in a defacto war with Russia. That goalie is now isolated in some military base in Siberia. We went from aggressive retool to stabilization in less than 6 months. So you tell me, is there a plan here?

good read on Hayes

https://theathletic.com/3...-john-tortorella-2022-23/


So it isn’t just blind optimism driving the Flyers’ internal hope that Hayes will be a far more effective version of himself this season as compared to the entirety of last. But (presumably) better health won’t be the only difference for Hayes this time around. He’ll also have a new coach in John Tortorella.

And his relationship with Hayes is going to be an interesting one to watch.

Tortorella, in his first press conference as head coach of the Flyers, made it clear that pushing Hayes to new heights will be one of his top priorities as a coach. In fact, he was the one player who Tortorella brought up by name in that regard.

“I’m really interested in talking to Kevin. Kevin is one I’m anxious to work with because I think there’s more there,” Tortorella explained. “I think he’s a huge piece of the puzzle up the middle of the ice for this organization. He’s one I’m going to try to talk with right away. I’m going to be interested in what he has to say. I hear he’s a tremendous guy. I want to try to help him, because if I can help him and make him understand we’re going to try to get him to another level … what does he do for the Flyers organization up the middle of the ice? I’ve watched from afar and there’s more there. It’s my responsibility to try and get that out of him.”
- wcorvette

The knock on Hayes for me is, if I can simplify, goes way beyond the contract. The contract is only where Hayes’ issues begin. Chuck had to have this guy, to the point of trading an asset for his rights. Once we acquired his rights, we overpaid for his serves. Now for four seasons we’ve hoped he’ll rise to expectations. He reached the 50 point mark once, we just now need him to continue a trend that has only happened once. Getting to my point, Hayes has been in the league 8 seasons. If the argument against Ristolainen for example is that he’s been around for so long, what are his chances of improving? Why does Hayes have different experiences?

I come to my own conclusions based on the evidence in front of me. There were some good moves by Fletcher and I was hopeful. To me the straw is when I don't see a plan. Some plans may work out, and some plans may not work out, but a GM with no plan is nothing short of a disaster. As soon as I saw enough evidence to conclude there was no plan here I jumped off the SS Fletcher. Hextall did a horrible job as GM IMO and deserved to be fired. I was happy Fletcher was hired at the time and was happy the team wanted to be more aggressive in getting their younger players playing in the NHL, but was also willing to spend again in free agency to push this thing forward. I gave Fletcher a shot. His first off season was great, he hired a proven head coach, and made some nice moves to improve the roster. 2019-2020 was a fantastic year and I had hope. Covid hit, 2021 was a disaster, but still I had hope. Last year with all the injuries and AV fuming out, I started to lose hope. This off-season when it was clear there is no plan here, that Fletcher is winging it out of desperation I concluded he is no longer the right person. So yes it took me multiple years, but I got there when I felt it was fair to do so. I don't believe you are genuine at all when you state you didn't have it in for Fletcher. You were not happy when Hextall was fired and have done nothing but defend Hextall to the end, even more so than I defended Risto. Just admit it, we all make mistakes.
- jd250

The evidence has been presented to you for literally years. You resisted until the point where peer pressure and constant posts showing you how you were wrong forced you to join the choir. You didn't figure anything out.

None of this has anything to do with Hextall. There haven't been any mistakes made by me. In every dispute between you and I, in the end, it has been proven that I was on the correct side.

There is no plan. Anyone who thinks there is needs their head examined.
- furio16

Unless you call just winging it every year as a plan.

Want proof? What is the plan to obtain top-end talent? If you are not tanking and accumulating 2023 draft picks then doing so via the draft is not your plan. So the alternative is you free up cap space to sign top end talent or trade for it when top-end talent becomes available. Keith Tkachuk, Johnny G and Alex Debrincat were all available this off season and the Flyers didn't try for any of them. Instead the Flyers spent $10.1M of cap space on Risto and DeAngelo. Then with no money for a backup the Flyers decide to bring over a Russian goalie with potential while in a defacto war with Russia. That goalie is now isolated in some military base in Siberia. We went from aggressive retool to stabilization in less than 6 months. So you tell me, is there a plan here?
- jd250

You don't know if the Flyers attempted to trade for Tkachuk or DeBrincat.


Atempts in the past to show you that there was no plan have been futile. Now you act like you knew it all along. Can't make it up.

We’re at the ground. We need a guy to start here with us and build this team up.
- SuperSchennBros

The ground is a generous level...
I say bedrock.

The evidence has been presented to you for literally years. You resisted until the point where peer pressure and constant posts showing you how you were wrong forced you to join the choir. You didn't figure anything out.

None of this has anything to do with Hextall. There haven't been any mistakes made by me. In every dispute between you and I, in the end, it has been proven that I was on the correct side.
- MJL

You're my hero!!
I wanna be a keyboard genius just like you!
You win a cookie for being the best here.
I hope your mommy gives you a gold star daily for how smart you are on HB.
Kinda feel sorry for you though.

There is no plan. Anyone who thinks there is needs their head examined.
- furio16

I believe that one should be willing to question things, and questioning things does not make one crazy.

The fan survey at the Athletic offered a chance to consider those thoughts. In the vision question, I said before that I would have preferred to give a zero. In the article it describes vision as “How the front office communicates its plan, both implicitly and explicitly. Vision is mostly an abstract concept, one that boils down to whether a team’s plan to build a Stanley Cup contender is evident in its decision-making process and whether its plans for the future appear sound.”

The Flyer’s are so poor in each of these areas that they don’t deserve the 1. But I have to ask that even if someone is a poor communicator, makes erratic-looking decisions, lies…does this mean that they have no plan? No but..
If you have to question whether there is a plan at all, doesn’t that at the very least show no vision?

It begs the question: why do we still have Fletcher? Vision is typically vital to success. Why in the world would they keep a plan to themselves?

Playing devil's advocate, here is a defense of CF:

1. He gave Risto that contract. According to those high faluting WAR models, Risto is essentially a scrub as far as impact on the team, except that scrubs don't make 5.1m. That is probably a 3.5m overpay, which in turn worsens the team when it needs to be worsened.

2. He gave Hayes that contract. In a Torts team, Hayes scores 50 points and that is if he plays healthy and for full season. Both seem somewhat unlikely. Again, that contract would probably give a value of about 4.5m for what we will get out of him. Another 2.6m overpay.

3. He signed for Ellis, which might be a masterstroke. Ellis might just have the kind of injury that heals enough to play a few games here and there, which would prevent using his money to sign someone else using the LTIR allowance. That could be another 5m deficit of pay over expected performance.

4. He signed TAD. In a team that was a train wreck in their own zone, this might just go belly up. Then there is the potential for personal instability.

5. He signed this Grosenick guy, who I had frankly never heard of, who seems to be a career minor leaguer, thus again increasing the chances of a huge (frank)up in net if Carter has a crisis of confidence.

6. He signed guys like Brown, NDL, etc to keep youngsters who have much higher upside away from the roster, thus reducing the chances one of them might turn in a stellar stint.

All in all, he might just about have done his best to nudge the team downwards from what on paper is probably a #8 pick.

I believe that one should be willing to question things, and questioning things does not make one crazy.

The fan survey at the Athletic offered a chance to consider those thoughts. In the vision question, I said before that I would have preferred to give a zero. In the article it describes vision as “How the front office communicates its plan, both implicitly and explicitly. Vision is mostly an abstract concept, one that boils down to whether a team’s plan to build a Stanley Cup contender is evident in its decision-making process and whether its plans for the future appear sound.”

The Flyer’s are so poor in each of these areas that they don’t deserve the 1. But I have to ask that even if someone is a poor communicator, makes erratic-looking decisions, lies…does this mean that they have no plan? No but..
If you have to question whether there is a plan at all, doesn’t that at the very least show no vision?

It begs the question: why do we still have Fletcher? Vision is typically vital to success. Why in the world would they keep a plan to themselves?
- NC Flyers Fan

Pure incompetence is all I can come up with as his past and current role as a GM has not been good.

There is no plan to share is why we do not hear of said plan.

It begs the question: why do we still have Fletcher? Vision is typically vital to success. Why in the world would they keep a plan to themselves?
- NC Flyers Fan

Duh, dude

Playing devil's advocate, here is a defense of CF:

1. He gave Risto that contract. According to those high faluting WAR models, Risto is essentially a scrub as far as impact on the team, except that scrubs don't make 5.1m. That is probably a 3.5m overpay, which in turn worsens the team when it needs to be worsened.

2. He gave Hayes that contract. In a Torts team, Hayes scores 50 points and that is if he plays healthy and for full season. Both seem somewhat unlikely. Again, that contract would probably give a value of about 4.5m for what we will get out of him. Another 2.6m overpay.

3. He signed for Ellis, which might be a masterstroke. Ellis might just have the kind of injury that heals enough to play a few games here and there, which would prevent using his money to sign someone else using the LTIR allowance. That could be another 5m deficit of pay over expected performance.

4. He signed TAD. In a team that was a train wreck in their own zone, this might just go belly up. Then there is the potential for personal instability.

5. He signed this Grosenick guy, who I had frankly never heard of, who seems to be a career minor leaguer, thus again increasing the chances of a huge (frank)up in net if Carter has a crisis of confidence.

6. He signed guys like Brown, NDL, etc to keep youngsters who have much higher upside away from the roster, thus reducing the chances one of them might turn in a stellar stint.

All in all, he might just about have done his best to nudge the team downwards from what on paper is probably a #8 pick.
- PT21

It's not playing Devils advocate. It's looking to stir the pot. You seem to believe that Fletcher has purposely made bad moves in a stealth tank. Not buying it.

Fletch absolutely has a plan.

His plan is to keep his job by just doing ANYTHING because his Comcast overlords mistake motion for progress.

It's not playing Devils advocate. It's looking to stir the pot. You seem to believe that Fletcher has purposely made bad moves in a stealth tank. Not buying it.
- MJL

Explain to me, you staggering paragon of insight, how you gleaned intent from anything I wrote?

The ground is a generous level...
I say bedrock.
- konalover711

nah...bedrock is solid...nothing solid about this team right now

Explain to me, you staggering paragon of insight, how you gleaned intent from anything I wrote?
- PT21

LMAO. The very context of your post is that it is a defense of Fletcher.

You don't have the personal insight to realize that your repeated attempts at insults towards me have no weight and no meaning to me whatsoever.

Funny story on NHL.com. Lehrner has season ending surgery. Almost like LV is the once feel-good story that we all love to watch falter now. So this is funny (not that the man is hurt) but that LVGK took another hit and now need a goalie. 🤣😂🤣😞😀

LMAO. The very context of your post is that it is a defense of Fletcher.

You don't have the personal insight to realize that your repeated attempts at insults towards me have no weight and no meaning to me whatsoever.
- MJL

The only relevant context here is that you don't know what the phrase devil's advocate means.

"a person who advocates an opposing or unpopular cause for the sake of argument or to expose it to a thorough examination."

The fact that CF is a very poor GM at a time when a very poor GM may unintentionally nudge us in the direction we want to be nudged and is thus a blessing in disguise seems to me a valid discussion to be had.