So an elite goalie, your comparisons are always spot on…
- ClaudeFather

Where are you getting Elite goalie from??

It's pronounced waiver wire pickup/Stanley Cup winner NAK!!

It's pronounced waiver wire pickup/Stanley Cup winner NAK!!
- konalover711

Yes, in 14 playoff games this season, Kubel had

0 goals
0 assists
0 points
+2
4 penalty minutes

But you're right, he is a Cup winner

Some days it feels like the Flyer fans are just too overcritical of the team then I watch/read things over and over and over that just confirm the nightmare....

Hart has poor puck handling skills, a below average glove, frequent brain farts and is often injured. I know he's still young, but I dont see him being an above average NHL goalie

On this week's "Mondays with Meltzer" edition of Flyers Daily, Jason Myretetus and I did an entire "Ask Billy" episode of listener-submitted questions. This week's topics include Carter Hart, realistic team expectations . . .
- bmeltzer

I realistically expect the Flyers will play 82 games this season. That's about all for now.

Put a good team in front of him and he'll be an above-average NHL starter. Has the pedigree and talent to do so and, more important, has shown the ability to do so. Environment and structure matter greatly for a goalie. Unless your Dominik Hasek in his Buffalo days, it's hard to find a goalie who completely rises above a porous team in front of him on a consistent basis.

Even stats like "saves above replacement" can be deceptive. When the team in front of you gives up too many back-door goals where the goalie doesn't a have a chance (which doesn't hurt a goalie in that metric) PLUS is prone to screening their own goalie (which can hurt a goalie since shot location is what matters for it) PLUS regularly provides its goalie with scant margin for error due to anemic goal support, it's very easy for goalies to eventually start letting in a "stoppable one."

Mike McKenna has very interesting thoughts on the subject of what the team-in-front to goalie-play balance is, and it's not necessarily something that is well measured in stats.
- bmeltzer

SCREENING haha
RISTO says hold my beer and ill just check Hart out of the play

Hart has poor puck handling skills, a below average glove, frequent brain farts and is often injured. I know he's still young, but I dont see him being an above average NHL goalie
- Dkos

I would agree and he isnt the type to lift an average team on his shoulders. Unfortunate for him the Flyers are going to be a below average team at best for a few years and by then he should be totally destroyed. Kid might still be salvageable on a good team.

So you foresee patience from management if he has a down year? To the other posters point above, I do think Torts will do well for Hart. They will at least play with a certain amount of structure this upcoming season.
- ClaudeFather

I wasn't discussing what I think management will do. I think they've already done their best to hurt Hart and a number of other players. I foresee this current management making more bad decisions.

I wasn't discussing what I think management will do. I think they've already done their best to hurt Hart and a number of other players. I foresee this current management making more bad decisions.
- MJL

But that’s the situation he’s in. And that’s why I specifically called out who’s in charge here regarding my comments about Hart. This will be a make or break season for him. If he has a down year the organization is most likely considering other options in net.

I would agree and he isnt the type to lift an average team on his shoulders. Unfortunate for him the Flyers are going to be a below average team at best for a few years and by then he should be totally destroyed. Kid might still be salvageable on a good team.
- hfc355

The most concerning thing about him to me is the way he handles the puck when he's out of the net. Does that really change on a better team? IDK. I know we always hear that the Flyers D would be better at moving the puck if their forwards weren't out of position...or that the forwards would be better if the Flyer's D was better at moving the puck. Does that apply to the goalie? I don't remember getting that same sense of dread when Jones handled the puck last year.

Where are you getting Elite goalie from??
- jd250

Tukka Rask was an elite goaltender

I would agree and he isnt the type to lift an average team on his shoulders. Unfortunate for him the Flyers are going to be a below average team at best for a few years and by then he should be totally destroyed. Kid might still be salvageable on a good team.
- hfc355

Maybe they could package Hart and maybe Allison to a team like....Buffalo for say Ben Bishop.

Then Chucky can find out 2 weeks into the season Bishop can't play.

Sounds like a Chucky thing.

This is where your metrics get you in trouble. Was Billy Smith a great goalie? How about Grant Fuhr? They were both Cup winning goalies that had the best team in the world in front of them, icing some of the greatest scorers in NHL history. Makes it a lot easier on a goalie when you can give up 3 goals and still win going away. Hart has not had that luxury ... hmmm .. ever on the Flyers. You must take this into account. Hart gives up 3 and your penciling in the Loss column! Not a good feeling.
- jd250

This is again another instance where your lack of knowledge gets you in trouble. It was a different era. A GAA of 3.0 is tops in the league back then. Smith won the Vezina in 81-82 with a GAA of 2.97 and SV% of .898. Now we'll move on to his point. The metrics show that Shesterkin carried his team defensively and put up an amazing season. Offensive support is a different conversation.

This is again another instance where your lack of knowledge gets you in trouble. It was a different era. A GAA of 3.0 is tops in the league back then. Smith won the Vezina in 81-82 with a GAA of 2.97 and SV% of .898. Now we'll move on to his point. The metrics show that Shesterkin carried his team defensively and put up an amazing season. Offensive support is a different conversation.
- MJL

Ahhh the days of 11-9 games

Some days it feels like the Flyer fans are just too overcritical of the team then I watch/read things over and over and over that just confirm the nightmare....


- Glak18

yea this next season is going to be a wash probably best to root for another team for 1 year

I don't know. I've always enjoyed Bill's goalie commentary because while I always wanted that elite Brodeur or Vasilevsky or Price, realistically there are a lot of above average goalies who deserve some love -they have a down season but shouldn't be judged on those alone. I thought Mason stole a lot of games for us. Esche often played above his level. Hart was magical in that first season.
You need a great backup when your above average number one needs a break. (Bob, Nitty, etc al)

Hart has poor puck handling skills, a below average glove, frequent brain farts and is often injured. I know he's still young, but I dont see him being an above average NHL goalie
- Dkos

The glove issue, which he did not have entering the league, was already diagnosed and fixed.

Puck handling skills can still use improvement. "Frequent" brain farts is an exaggeration. Does have some. A bigger issue is cheating off the short-side post after an opponent exploits weak-side breakdowns.

It absolutely is. Especially considering who is in charge now. If he has another down year, I could easily see them moving on from him and brining in another goaltender. Although he is young, it’s his fourth season as a starter. He needs to show consistency.
- ClaudeFather

Ok, well I disagree wholeheartedly.

Hart has poor puck handling skills, a below average glove, frequent brain farts and is often injured. I know he's still young, but I dont see him being an above average NHL goalie
- Dkos

I hate this term. Unless you can see into the future, you can’t really see anything.

The glove issue, which he did not have entering the league, was already diagnosed and fixed.

Puck handling skills can still use improvement. "Frequent" brain farts is an exaggeration. Does have some. A bigger issue is cheating off the short-side post after an opponent exploits weak-side breakdowns.
- bmeltzer

I'm genuinely curious if goalies ever try playing baseball whether it being a catcher or infield to practice glove skills.

I hate this term. Unless you can see into the future, you can’t really see anything.
- SuperSchennBros

Funny, judging by most of your posts I didnt see you as someone too concerned with grammar.

I'll rephrase it for you...he doesn't look elite to me.

The glove issue, which he did not have entering the league, was already diagnosed and fixed.

Puck handling skills can still use improvement. "Frequent" brain farts is an exaggeration. Does have some. A bigger issue is cheating off the short-side post after an opponent exploits weak-side breakdowns.
- bmeltzer

Makes me nervous every time he leaves the crease.

I'm genuinely curious if goalies ever try playing baseball whether it being a catcher or infield to practice glove skills.
- 2Real

Infielders don’t “flash the leather” lol they get in front of the ball

Have you seen baseball?

Infielders don’t “flash the leather” lol they get in front of the ball

Have you seen baseball?
- black_francis

jesus christ don't you understand how hand eye coordination or practicing in a different field/mental state works