No way he would have got more than 1.5M in arb....he was earning 737k last year...I don't get this at all!
- Kevin Francis

Makes me think at the draft when it was announced Ottawa had sent Murray and the 7th pick to Buffalo. It all seemed crazy until it became apparent to be tied into a follow up that was much bigger than the first part of the deal.

This is the thing that confuses me as well. Arbitration would have been a better route for a team looking to start spending. I am not an expert on arbitration but seems like it could have had a shorter term deal. It's been a win of a summer for Dorion, but this is the first real move that has made me raise an eyebrow in doubt. While lineup depth is important, most championship teams don't have 3rd and 4th liners locked up for 4 years.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

To take it a step further.......8 pts against Detroit in 3 games, 2 pts. against MTL. So in 4 games against 2 of the worst teams, he had 10pts. In his other 7 games he had 2pts. total against WIN x2, NSH x2, NYR, NYI and Florida.....hmmmm.....

I think more important question might be how many goals would DeBrincat have scored if McDavid had been setting him up.

DeBrincat played with Kane who scored 26 goals and had 66 assists, many of them were primary assists on Debrincat goals. Line was centred by Strome who had 22 goals and 26 assists.

This year DeBrincat will play with Stutzle 22 goals and 36 assists and Giroux 21 goals and 44 assists.


Do you think Stutzle can generate 66 assists playing with Debrincat and Giroux. I believe he can. I think Stutzle sees the ice exceptionally well and has the potential to be a brilliant playmaker. He now has a natural goal scorer on his wing. More than anything, I hope they are fun to watch.
- spatso

I think the more important question might be how anyone can mention DeBrincat in the same sentence as guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Ovechkin and Stamkos except when pointing out the epically mind blowing absurdity of such a comparison.

I think the more important question might be how anyone can mention DeBrincat in the same sentence as guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Ovechkin and Stamkos except when pointing out the epically mind blowing absurdity of such a comparison.
- Whatisavailable

Was it not you who made the comparison?

I think the more important question might be how anyone can mention DeBrincat in the same sentence as guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Ovechkin and Stamkos except when pointing out the epically mind blowing absurdity of such a comparison.
- Whatisavailable

It was you who said:

I bet the Oilers are kicking themselves because they could be paying DeBrincat 4 million less a year than McDavid and still be getting pretty much the same goal production over the last couple of years.

You insinuated having Debrincat would have been just as useful as McDavid.

I think the more important question might be how anyone can mention DeBrincat in the same sentence as guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Ovechkin and Stamkos except when pointing out the epically mind blowing absurdity of such a comparison.
- Whatisavailable

I think there's something you missed. I was including the cap hit of top GOAL scorers, just to give a range. McDavid and Matthews happen to be there but NO WAY anyone gets that contract range. Those are just the top goal scorers.

What do YOU think DeBrincat is worth? He will not want less than Tkachuk (not saying he won't accept close to that)

It was you who said:



You insinuated having Debrincat would have been just as useful as McDavid.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I forgot myself for a moment and forgot that there are several mentally challenged simpletons on this thread who would not recognize SARCASM. I should have labeled the post but that probably would not have helped with these oh so clever guys. They could look the word SARCASM up in the dictionary but I doubt that will do them much good.

I think there's something you missed. I was including the cap hit of top GOAL scorers, just to give a range. McDavid and Matthews happen to be there but NO WAY anyone gets that contract range. Those are just the top goal scorers.

What do YOU think DeBrincat is worth? He will not want less than Tkachuk (not saying he won't accept close to that)
- AlfieisKing

I would never have added DeBrincat to the roster in the first place because I think it's a dumb hockey move in the longer term like two or three years.

I recognize that it was a very good marketing move which generated a great deal of enthusiasm and excitement in Ottawa and will probably sell some tickets this year.

It's possible that he can be moved next summer for some kind of return but they'll need to find some outfit that can not only take on his 9 million dollar salary but is also willing to do it and that might be a problem.

You ask me what I think he's worth. I would be really happy to get back a first, second and third round pick next summer but I don't think anyone would give that. As far as salary goes this year his 6.4 million can be absorbed but if they can't dump this guy by next summer they are going to be badly hurt.

You already see the Joseph contract. What about Formenton? Then Pinto. What about Stutzle? Sanderson? JBD? A top 4D? The DeBrincat deal might be escapable but this GM is not.

I would never have added DeBrincat to the roster in the first place because I think it's a dumb hockey move in the longer term like two or three years.

I recognize that it was a very good marketing move which generated a great deal of enthusiasm and excitement in Ottawa and will probably sell some tickets this year.

It's possible that he can be moved next summer for some kind of return but they'll need to find some outfit that can not only take on his 9 million dollar salary but is also willing to do it and that might be a problem.

You ask me what I think he's worth. I would be really happy to get back a first, second and third round pick next summer but I don't think anyone would give that. As far as salary goes this year his 6.4 million can be absorbed but if they can't dump this guy by next summer they are going to be badly hurt.

You already see the Joseph contract. What about Formenton? Then Pinto. What about Stutzle? Sanderson? JBD? A top 4D? The DeBrincat deal might be escapable but this GM is not.
- Whatisavailable

I respect your opinion regarding the first sentence. I think it's a very valid point and only time will tell if this was the right move. With that said, I don't think 40 goal scorers grow on trees and this guy has done that twice. To be fully honest I wish he was Canadian and about 5 inches taller, but giving a 7th pick+ is not a CRAZY trade. I don't think they get this kind of talent and impact (especially anytime in the next 3-4 years). If DeBrincat and Stutzle find chemistry it will have a huge affect on the team's growth - which I think will pay dividends on many other players. I get your point though, how he manages the cap will be very important going forward (so far I think he deserves credit of cleaning the cap messes he's made)

I would never have added DeBrincat to the roster in the first place because I think it's a dumb hockey move in the longer term like two or three years.

I recognize that it was a very good marketing move which generated a great deal of enthusiasm and excitement in Ottawa and will probably sell some tickets this year.

It's possible that he can be moved next summer for some kind of return but they'll need to find some outfit that can not only take on his 9 million dollar salary but is also willing to do it and that might be a problem.

You ask me what I think he's worth. I would be really happy to get back a first, second and third round pick next summer but I don't think anyone would give that. As far as salary goes this year his 6.4 million can be absorbed but if they can't dump this guy by next summer they are going to be badly hurt.

You already see the Joseph contract. What about Formenton? Then Pinto. What about Stutzle? Sanderson? JBD? A top 4D? The DeBrincat deal might be escapable but this GM is not.
- Whatisavailable

I assume you are just looking for someone to debate. DeBrincat was nowhere near the top of my list of possible acquisitions when the summer began. I liked Matthew Tkachuk, Pierre Luc Dubois and Evander Kane in that order. I like big bodies. So, I was disappointed to see Nick Paul moved. And, I am not a huge fan of the Giroux signing because of his age and $6.5m for 3 years during the middle of the frozen cap era. Amateurs, like me, can become obsessed with transactional evaluation. We try to rationalize each move as a win/loss opportunity. We make the fundamental error of judging each stroke as a stand alone transaction without reference to the whole of the canvas.

Little did I know that when the summer started that Dorion was working towards:

Batherson Norris Tkachuk
DeBrincat Stutzle Giroux
Formenton Pinto Joseph
Watson Kestellec Grieg/Kelly/.....

I really like Talbot and Forsberg over last year.

And, I believe the defense remains a work in progress.

So, even though I was not a fan of some individual transactions I have no difficulty in giving Dorion a "brilliant" grade for his summer. So let's see what he does to upgrade the defense today or tomorrow or the day after.

I forgot myself for a moment and forgot that there are several mentally challenged simpletons on this thread who would not recognize SARCASM. I should have labeled the post but that probably would not have helped with these oh so clever guys. They could look the word SARCASM up in the dictionary but I doubt that will do them much good.
- Whatisavailable

Fair warning: If you are going to go back to being an arse hole I am going to cut you to shreds again. You can cry to Kevin all you want but if you are going to act like an ass you will be treated like an ass.

Fair warning: If you are going to go back to being an arse hole I am going to cut you to shreds again. You can cry to Kevin all you want but if you are going to act like an ass you will be treated like an ass.
- HoweHatrick

Hostility and bitterness has increased in a small group of critics who profoundly disagree with the spectacular reviews that Dorion has received so far this summer.

Their bitterness is inversely proportionate to the perceived or notional success of the team. When the team fails they have the satisfaction of knowing they were right. In their opinion many of us are merely premature escalators hyping nothing more than some false hope on the back of a few headline deals.

Hold your humour because it will become apoplectic for a small number if Smith gets the team rolling in the early season. It is fairly common for folks to become emotionally invested in wanting to see some individuals including players, coaches and management fail.

They can be entirely sincere in their beliefs and capable of going as far off track as I can in my over belief on the Sens making the Stanley Cup final. Being a fan is primarily an emotional rather than a logical enterprise. Over believers appear hopelessly naive to under believers. Clearly some of them are unhappy with our mindless celebration.

I forgot myself for a moment and forgot that there are several mentally challenged simpletons on this thread who would not recognize SARCASM. I should have labeled the post but that probably would not have helped with these oh so clever guys. They could look the word SARCASM up in the dictionary but I doubt that will do them much good.
- Whatisavailable

Just a heads up, sarcasm doesn’t always come through well in writing. That’s usually because the writer is a simpleton, not the people reading it.

Sens sign M. Joseph to 4 years at 11.8M for an AAV of 2.95M. Nick Paul's agent asked for 4 years 11.5M after Ottawa offered him 4 years, 10M......hmmm.....
- Kevin Francis

Would you rather have Paul at his current contract or Joeseph at his? I’d take Paul personally, but joesephs isn’t terrible imo. Getting close to the cap, it’s nice to have this problem.

I’m starting to worry about Batherson and Formenton with this world junior stuff. I think Dorion is too, that’s why he’s holding off on Formenton.

I forgot myself for a moment and forgot that there are several mentally challenged simpletons on this thread who would not recognize SARCASM. I should have labeled the post but that probably would not have helped with these oh so clever guys. They could look the word SARCASM up in the dictionary but I doubt that will do them much good.
- Whatisavailable

Dude. Sarcasm doesn't translate in font. It is known.

Would you rather have Paul at his current contract or Joeseph at his? I’d take Paul personally, but joesephs isn’t terrible imo. Getting close to the cap, it’s nice to have this problem.

I’m starting to worry about Batherson and Formenton with this world junior stuff. I think Dorion is too, that’s why he’s holding off on Formenton.
- CooCooKaChoo

This exactly. I think Dorion is paying very close attention to the news and waiting to see what happens with Hockey Canada. He may be forced to not even qualify Formenton. Not sure what he will do in regards to Batherson. Hopefully Batherson's alleged role if at all was minimal and he can get away with a fine, an apology and tons of charity work to keep him on board because his contract is potentially one of the biggest steals in the NHL.

Another reason for locking down Joseph is he's one of Chabot's best friends as well as being a good third line player who can move up the lineup if needed due to his speed. Again is it good to let the teams top players influence these decisions?... I dunno.

Would you rather have Paul at his current contract or Joeseph at his? I’d take Paul personally, but joesephs isn’t terrible imo. Getting close to the cap, it’s nice to have this problem.

I’m starting to worry about Batherson and Formenton with this world junior stuff. I think Dorion is too, that’s why he’s holding off on Formenton.
- CooCooKaChoo

Yeah this. The talk about 'what will Formenton want' is moot. So is the prospect of including him in any trade proposals. We won't be seeing Formenton signed until the WJC business is resolved, and there's an above grade chance he never signs at all, or signs for much less than expected. Damaged goods.

I'm not so annoyed about this contract as it relates to Paul. He's younger, faster and can "learn" all the special teams stuff Paul did. But you can't teach offense and Paul had very little of it. What annoys me is how this relates to White. You could have kept white and used him up and down your line up like Joseph. Now you're paying White NOT to be here and paying Joseph TO be here and the amounts come out similar.

The Islanders seem to have the model for how a 3rd line should be constructed. Or they did. A lot of people balked at some of those contracts they handed out to Martin and Clutterbuck. But those dudes are just a menace to play against. (or they were)

We'll see how this deal ages. I like Joseph, but the Sens have a nasty reoccurring rash of signing smart speedsters who can't finish. (insert a half dozen names here)

Would you rather have Paul at his current contract or Joeseph at his? I’d take Paul personally, but joesephs isn’t terrible imo. Getting close to the cap, it’s nice to have this problem.

I’m starting to worry about Batherson and Formenton with this world junior stuff. I think Dorion is too, that’s why he’s holding off on Formenton.
- CooCooKaChoo

Joseph is a really good player. Saw advanced stats this morning used to support the argument that Joseph may be an even stronger defensive player than Paul. Paul was good but Joseph had even better defensive numbers.

Pinto, Joseph and Formenton have the potential to be one of the best defensive lines in the league. A really strong third line that does what a third line is supposed to do.

I wonder if part of the calculus is the possibility that Grieg is very close to making the jump to the big team sometime during the coming season.

Reading that the Joseph signing allows a 48 hr window for the Sens to do another buy out? Speculation that Zaitsev is going to be gone.

He is an expensive buy out. He would be $2.83m on the cap this year and next. A cap credit of $833k in the third year and a cap cost of $833k in year 4. Hopefully they can find a better option.

Would you rather have Paul at his current contract or Joeseph at his? I’d take Paul personally, but joesephs isn’t terrible imo. Getting close to the cap, it’s nice to have this problem.

I’m starting to worry about Batherson and Formenton with this world junior stuff. I think Dorion is too, that’s why he’s holding off on Formenton.
- CooCooKaChoo

The world junior allegations are starting to worry me as well. I know that there were several players said to be at the event who were not on the WJ team, but the silence from both players is concerning.

Of course, players making statements don't mean prove innocence either.

In my opinion Joseph Contract is better than Paul's

Paul: 7 years at 3 150 000$ highest point total in a season 32pts in 80 games ( 16G , 16 A) will be arond 34 at the end. Scored 34 g in his pro Carrer in 248 Games


Joseph: 4 years at 2 950 000 Highest point total in a season 30 pts in 69 games ( 12G, 18A).Scored 41 Goals in his NHL career in 232 games will be around 29 at the end of is contract.

Less money Less term comparable production for a Younger and faster deepth player.

Reading that the Joseph signing allows a 48 hr window for the Sens to do another buy out? Speculation that Zaitsev is going to be gone.

He is an expensive buy out. He would be $2.83m on the cap this year and next. A cap credit of $833k in the third year and a cap cost of $833k in year 4. Hopefully they can find a better option.
- spatso

They are not buying Zaitsev out until they find that elusive RD. They will roll into training camp with the D they have if they can't find a trade partner or RD.

Buyout makes sense maybe next year. When they will definitely need more cap space

They are not buying Zaitsev out until they find that elusive RD. They will roll into training camp with the D they have if they can't find a trade partner or RD.

Buyout makes sense maybe next year. When they will definitely need more cap space
- GrimmdaGoalie

Dorion unfortunately needs to get Zaitsev off the roster no matter what before season start. If he doesn't DJ Smith will undoubtedly slot him in over Thompson or JBD and probably make some attempts at getting him to pair with Chabot again at season start before moving him down to the 3rd pairing inevitably.

If Zaitsev is removed from the team this will force DJ Smith to turn to the prospects or other depth pieces who are better than Zaitsev.

Getting him off the team isn't a necessity due to cap but due to the coach favoring his guy over the best player available/future development.

I forgot myself for a moment and forgot that there are several mentally challenged simpletons on this thread who would not recognize SARCASM. I should have labeled the post but that probably would not have helped with these oh so clever guys. They could look the word SARCASM up in the dictionary but I doubt that will do them much good.
- Whatisavailable