Ottawa is gonna strike out and not understand why.
- GreatGigInTheSky

"We offered him $5 million! That's more money than we even have! How could he say no???"

Who knows what kind of logic he rolls with... but a simpleton with limited hockey knowledge knows even with a weaker west.... it's an absurd statement...

I love the part also on soup getting 6 mil from the Oil... That would be so on brand for Holland... I'd think Chia pet was still there...

- dozerD10

As much as I'd love to see Edmonton stupidly over pay again, I also don't overly want to see Campbell fail, because he's such a good dude.

I don't see it. I mean there's a lot of shifty-shifting pieces here. I think right now, if you assume Engvall and Kase come back at around $2m each and Holl and Mrazek are moved, there are 10 forwards, 6 D (Sandin still not under contract), and no goalies. You'd have about $11m in cap to sign 2 goalies, Sandin & a depth D (or trade Sandin for RHD), and 2 Forwards. That $11m in cap could be $10m if we have to buyout Mrazek instead.

The assumptions I'd make are that Kerfoot and Muzzin aren't getting moved, but I wouldn't put a stake in the ground on that assumption.

But just at a very high level, I don't see the cap space being there for a big acquisition. You want a decent goalie at around $4m, and you have about $7m left to get another goalie, and 4 players. It's tight.
- Monkeypunk

Thinking Kerfoot will get in the way of adding cap is silly in my opinion, he is in no way vital to this team.

Has value and his 750K salary probably helps us get rid of Mrazek without having to give up any of our own picks.

That guy on that show cannot be trusted sometimes, at all...ever. Unless its the odd time that he is correct, which only occurs rarely often.
- Fakepartofme

F5
- Zezel

F5 to you to!

Geez, cannot have a simple convo around here anymore without confrontation.

You can't go wrong with a jalapeño cheddar combination. Cheetos are good like that.
- Zezel

Yeah, those are real good, too.

I find I can't eat as much of the Jalapeno Cheetos as I can the Jalapeno chips. So they last longer.

"We offered him $5 million! That's more money than we even have! How could he say no???"
- BINGO!

"Can't believe he didn't even want to meet with us. We're close to his hometown and will challenge for a playoff spot in 4 years."

F5 to you to!

Geez, cannot have a simple convo around here anymore with confrontation.

- Fakepartofme

Without?

Without?
- bobbyisno1

Oui.
(updated)

Oui.
(updated)
- Fakepartofme

You and I?, Well okay, maybe.

Thinking Kerfoot will get in the way of adding cap is silly in my opinion, he is in no way vital to this team.

Has value and his 750K salary probably helps us get rid of Mrazek without having to give up any of our own picks.
- Santo_44

So, let's take the aforementioned $11m and say we move out Kerfoot. Now we have $14.5m in capspace, and we need 3 forwards, 2 D, and 2 goalies.

Using your wishlist and putting a small reality check on your salary expectations for him, we go and we sign Giroux for $6m. Now we have $8.5m to sign 2F, 2D, and 2 goalies. I still think the goalie is a $4m position, so you have $4.5m to sign 2F, 2D, and 1G.

Based on our cap situation Giroux is not worth $2.5m more than Kerfoot. Based on his ability, you could argue that he is (65pts to 51pts, although Giroux had 21 more PP points which would greatly diminish), but the pieces we need to move, and the things we'd need to do to fit him in are just not worth it longer term based on the short-term benefit he'd bring.

As irritating as it is to say (because I don't really love Kerfoot), I'd rather have Kerfoot over him based on cap considerations. I would, however, move a guy like Kerfoot for a $4m player who was bringing speed, grit or the ability to win board battles.

I'd still kick the tires on Domi to see if he's interested. I've been wrong plenty of times before, but he feels like a guy who wants to be a hometown hero. He could be the type of bumhole we need. And he might be under $4m.

So, let's take the aforementioned $11m and say we move out Kerfoot. Now we have $14.5m in capspace, and we need 3 forwards, 2 D, and 2 goalies.

Using your wishlist and putting a small reality check on your salary expectations for him, we go and we sign Giroux for $6m. Now we have $8.5m to sign 2F, 2D, and 2 goalies. I still think the goalie is a $4m position, so you have $4.5m to sign 2F, 2D, and 1G.

Based on our cap situation Giroux is not worth $2.5m more than Kerfoot. Based on his ability, you could argue that he is (65pts to 51pts, although Giroux had 21 more PP points which would greatly diminish), but the pieces we need to move, and the things we'd need to do to fit him in are just not worth it longer term based on the short-term benefit he'd bring.

As irritating as it is to say (because I don't really love Kerfoot), I'd rather have Kerfoot over him based on cap considerations. I would, however, move a guy like Kerfoot for a $4m player who was bringing speed, grit or the ability to win board battles.

I'd still kick the tires on Domi to see if he's interested. I've been wrong plenty of times before, but he feels like a guy who wants to be a hometown hero. He could be the type of bumhole we need. And he might be under $4m.
- Monkeypunk

Mrazek?

Engvall isnt getting more than 1,700,000 and the Athletic has a good article on those comparisons for him. Kase is not coming back at anything more than he was signed last year, I am not paying him to be hurt.

Leafs will use prospects and some bargain signings lower in the lineup.

And Muzzin is a candidate to be moved as well.

One thing is for sure I know Dubas can be creative.

Mrazek?

Engvall isnt getting more than 1,700,000 and the Athletic has a good article on those comparisons for him. Kase is not coming back at anything more than he was signed last year, I am not paying him to be hurt.

Leafs will use prospects and some bargain signings lower in the lineup.

And Muzzin is a candidate to be moved as well.

One thing is for sure I know Dubas can be creative.
- Santo_44

You're sacrificing a lot to bring in one guy you like upfront.

You're falling for the shiny new toy syndrome and i get it. It's easy to do but not every good star player who wants to win is a fit for the leafs or is possible.

I do agree Dubas can get creative but that's a lot to bring in another guy. A lot of moving parts.

You're sacrificing a lot to bring in one guy you like upfront.

You're falling for the shiny new toy syndrome and i get it. It's easy to do but not every good star player who wants to win is a fit for the leafs or is possible.

I do agree Dubas can get creative but that's a lot to bring in another guy. A lot of moving parts.
- Aaron_85

No I am not but thanks for your input.

They do not have to trade Muzzin to bring a top 6 forward up front, it is just an option.

This is about adding a quality player that has interest in signing close to his Ottawa home. The options are not plentiful for good teams where he wants to go. His market price likely has to come down because of it and it is a good opportunity to take.

Mrazek?

Engvall isnt getting more than 1,700,000 and the Athletic has a good article on those comparisons for him. Kase is not coming back at anything more than he was signed last year, I am not paying him to be hurt.

Leafs will use prospects and some bargain signings lower in the lineup.

And Muzzin is a candidate to be moved as well.

One thing is for sure I know Dubas can be creative.
- Santo_44

As I said, I wouldn't stake anything on it, but I very much doubt Muzzin gets moved this season. If the Muzzin who played against Tampa is back for this season, we want him. If the Muzzin who played during last season is back for this season, he'll have as much value as a $3 bill.

That $11m I cited in room includes dumping Mrazek. If you buy him out, you have $10m in space. If Kase and Engvall come back at $1.5m or $1.7m, it adds upwards of $1m to that small number - so think of the space as $11.5 if you'd rather. My point is that is the manipulations made to try and fit in a piece like Giroux would lessen the value we could place lower in the lineup.

Last year we were very fortunate with Bunting, Kampf and Kase all playing very well. This year we'll even have Gio all season which is very stabilizing. We're losing PK and speed in Mikheyev, and fankly his value last season was more than he was paid, which was great - but it's hard to replace that value externally.

You move out Kerfoot and bring in another piece who's better than Kerfoot but costs more, you're still going to have to find a way to replace - and ideally improve upon - Mikheyev and Campbell.

When I think of UFAs who might add unexpected value for lower costs, you have aging guys like Stastny, Sheahan, Gagner, Brassard, Helm, Perrault, Stepan, maybe Jarnkrok, Janmark and Athanasiou are a bit younger but also decent options in a bottom-6. A lot of those guys are still in that $1.5 - $2m range.

Rounding out the D, you have Lyubushkin as a decent $2m option.

That part feels like a $5 - $6m price, and we still have Sandin to sign, and 2 goalies with maybe $6m to work with. I just don't see how throwing Kerfoot out to spend more money on someone else is a valid option.

Late to chocobar discussion, but its Kit Kat, Mars, Wonderbar, OHenry, Mr big and the rest can F off.

Dont eat many chips, but I do enjoy PC BBQ, Ruffles plain ridge if there is a dip.
- Fakepartofme

This entire conversation starts and ends with snickers.

As I said, I wouldn't stake anything on it, but I very much doubt Muzzin gets moved this season. If the Muzzin who played against Tampa is back for this season, we want him. If the Muzzin who played during last season is back for this season, he'll have as much value as a $3 bill.

That $11m I cited in room includes dumping Mrazek. If you buy him out, you have $10m in space. If Kase and Engvall come back at $1.5m or $1.7m, it adds upwards of $1m to that small number - so think of the space as $11.5 if you'd rather. My point is that is the manipulations made to try and fit in a piece like Giroux would lessen the value we could place lower in the lineup.

Last year we were very fortunate with Bunting, Kampf and Kase all playing very well. This year we'll even have Gio all season which is very stabilizing. We're losing PK and speed in Mikheyev, and fankly his value last season was more than he was paid, which was great - but it's hard to replace that value externally.

You move out Kerfoot and bring in another piece who's better than Kerfoot but costs more, you're still going to have to find a way to replace - and ideally improve upon - Mikheyev and Campbell.

When I think of UFAs who might add unexpected value for lower costs, you have aging guys like Stastny, Sheahan, Gagner, Brassard, Helm, Perrault, Stepan, maybe Jarnkrok, Janmark and Athanasiou are a bit younger but also decent options in a bottom-6. A lot of those guys are still in that $1.5 - $2m range.

Rounding out the D, you have Lyubushkin as a decent $2m option.

That part feels like a $5 - $6m price, and we still have Sandin to sign, and 2 goalies with maybe $6m to work with. I just don't see how throwing Kerfoot out to spend more money on someone else is a valid option.
- Monkeypunk

If significant salary gets opened up, I for one hope its to go for Nichushkin.

I don't see it. I mean there's a lot of shifty-shifting pieces here. I think right now, if you assume Engvall and Kase come back at around $2m each and Holl and Mrazek are moved, there are 10 forwards, 6 D (Sandin still not under contract), and no goalies. You'd have about $11m in cap to sign 2 goalies, Sandin & a depth D (or trade Sandin for RHD), and 2 Forwards. That $11m in cap could be $10m if we have to buyout Mrazek instead.

The assumptions I'd make are that Kerfoot and Muzzin aren't getting moved, but I wouldn't put a stake in the ground on that assumption.

But just at a very high level, I don't see the cap space being there for a big acquisition. You want a decent goalie at around $4m, and you have about $7m left to get another goalie, and 4 players. It's tight.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think Kase will be back.
when do the players need to be qualified by?

So, what kind of chips do you guys like?

I like spicy dill kettle chips.

What about pop?

I like Pepsi, 7 Up, Dr. Pepper and Root Beer.
- Zezel

more into flavored bubbly water
root beer
ginger
lemon/lime mix with frozen lemon/lime juice and you have your pop/soda

Mrazek?

Engvall isnt getting more than 1,700,000 and the Athletic has a good article on those comparisons for him. Kase is not coming back at anything more than he was signed last year, I am not paying him to be hurt.

Leafs will use prospects and some bargain signings lower in the lineup.

And Muzzin is a candidate to be moved as well.

One thing is for sure I know Dubas can be creative.
- Santo_44

Last time I checked…. You ain’t paying any of them, the Leafs are! 🤷🏼‍♂️

If significant salary gets opened up, I for one hope its to go for Nichushkin.
- joel878

What I was saying off the top to fake was that it's so shifty - so many things can happen. What if they get a Fleury / Holtby old-guy cheap tandem discount. You'd have $4m or so in net for both goalies. But there's a lot of moving parts, and a great deal of unlikeliness (and if you've ever read any of my BS on here, and remember any of it - I hate Holtby, so I wouldn't be a fan, but whatever - I cite that as an example of places where money might be saved).

I don't know what Nichushkin would command. I mean a 30 goal pace, but before that his career best was 14, including a year when he scored ZERO all year. I liked what I saw in the playoffs, but in his 7 years leading up to those moments, I'm not sure I really remember much about him, he was that much of a non-factor.

Last time I checked…. You ain’t paying any of them, the Leafs are! 🤷🏼‍♂️
- .HOHO.

Cool man

As I said, I wouldn't stake anything on it, but I very much doubt Muzzin gets moved this season. If the Muzzin who played against Tampa is back for this season, we want him. If the Muzzin who played during last season is back for this season, he'll have as much value as a $3 bill.

That $11m I cited in room includes dumping Mrazek. If you buy him out, you have $10m in space. If Kase and Engvall come back at $1.5m or $1.7m, it adds upwards of $1m to that small number - so think of the space as $11.5 if you'd rather. My point is that is the manipulations made to try and fit in a piece like Giroux would lessen the value we could place lower in the lineup.

Last year we were very fortunate with Bunting, Kampf and Kase all playing very well. This year we'll even have Gio all season which is very stabilizing. We're losing PK and speed in Mikheyev, and fankly his value last season was more than he was paid, which was great - but it's hard to replace that value externally.

You move out Kerfoot and bring in another piece who's better than Kerfoot but costs more, you're still going to have to find a way to replace - and ideally improve upon - Mikheyev and Campbell.

When I think of UFAs who might add unexpected value for lower costs, you have aging guys like Stastny, Sheahan, Gagner, Brassard, Helm, Perrault, Stepan, maybe Jarnkrok, Janmark and Athanasiou are a bit younger but also decent options in a bottom-6. A lot of those guys are still in that $1.5 - $2m range.

Rounding out the D, you have Lyubushkin as a decent $2m option.

That part feels like a $5 - $6m price, and we still have Sandin to sign, and 2 goalies with maybe $6m to work with. I just don't see how throwing Kerfoot out to spend more money on someone else is a valid option.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think Dubas puts much cap into the bottom of the lineup whether you like it or not. Guys who will sign for a chance to play a decent amount over money...like last offseason. Plus the Leafs have some prospects likely ready to contribute.

Getting a top 6 forward to play instead of Kerfoot is important.

I don't think Kase will be back.
when do the players need to be qualified by?
- dmnted

July 11th. From Puckpedia (https://puckpedia.com/22Dates)

July 1- First Buy-out Period Begins
July 2 - Deadline for First Club-Elected Salary Arbitration
July 7 - NHL Draft Round 1
July 8 - NHL Draft Round 2
July 11 - Deadline for Qualifying Offers (open for acceptance July 13)
July 12 - RFA's can discuss contracts with all teams, First buy-out period ends, and team's ability to sign their own UFA's to 8 year deals expires
July 13 - Free Agency Begins, Qualifying Offers can be Accepted
July 17 - Deadline for Player Elected Arbitration, Start of Second Team Elected Arbitration period
July 18 - Deadline for Club Elected Arbitration
July 22 - Qualifying Offers Expire
July 27 to Aug 11 - Arbitration Hearings

I don't think Dubas puts much cap into the bottom of the lineup whether you like it or not. Guys who will sign for a chance to play a decent amount over money...like last offseason. Plus the Leafs have some prospects likely ready to contribute.

Getting a top 6 forward to play instead of Kerfoot is important.
- Santo_44

its gonna be Pullyyarvee