Well you tell me. Do you define every player by the same standard? Measure them up to the elite of the league such as McDavid and Matthews and if they don't, then they aren't good players? Sometimes you have to consider the factors around the team and look at each player in context and also use some common sense.
- MJL

Well let’s look at the context almighty one, if a prospect pool is listed as #2 in the entire NHL what are you expecting? 1 good player, an average goalie, and a bottom 6 player? Is that good?

Not defending or attacking. Am presenting a fact: the two best seasons in Wild franchise history (including a 106-point season) came while Parise and Suter were still in their respective primes after signing with Minnesota. I also noted that the cap hit/term on the two contracts eventually caused long-term pain that the team is still feeling.

Those are facts, not hyperbole.
- bmeltzer

I also think the owner was the driver on those signings.

I agree. Am also not opposed to trading him. Am vehemently opposed to a buyout, however.
- bmeltzer

agree on the buyout for sure

Well let’s look at the context almighty one, if a prospect pool is listed as #2 in the entire NHL what are you expecting? 1 good player, an average goalie, and a bottom 6 player? Is that good?
- ClaudeFather

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue. I mentioned 3 players as being good players. I did not comment on the entire list and whether it measured up to the hype.

Some of us were screaming for DeBrincat over LaBerge on draft day and look at us now lol. (frank) Hextall.
- hereticpride

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if they came from the Winterhawks there is a good chance they pan out and that alone would get me to pick one player over another

Can't fight the ignorance Bill.
- MJL

Ignorance is bliss, you know it's true
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
Ignorance is bliss, didn't have a shoe
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
Is it goin' anywhere?
Is it goin' anywhere?
Ignorance is bliss, you know it's true
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
Ignorance is bliss, didn't have a shoe
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
What's happenin' to our society?
Desintegration of humanity
Destruction of the enviroment
Cram that cop donation in your ass
Is it goin' anywhere?
Is it goin' anywhere?
See the waitress throwing attitude
Politicians to confuse you
What's good for them
Now it ain't good for you
But there ain't nothin' that you can do
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
Ignorance is bliss, you know it's true
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
Ignorance is bliss, you know it's true
Ignorance is bliss, just look at you
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive, yeah
I'm alive I'm alive I'm alive

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue. I mentioned 3 players as being good players. I did not comment on the entire list and whether it measured up to the hype.
- MJL

Well, I said one player is good. Can you not make sense of it looking at those 3? Is Joel Farabee Auston Matthews or McDavid?

Well let’s look at the context almighty one, if a prospect pool is listed as #2 in the entire NHL what are you expecting? 1 good player, an average goalie, and a bottom 6 player? Is that good?
- ClaudeFather

it is a prospect pool by nature it is crap shoot. I think a prospect pool can be rated for its top end talent and or its depth. Unfortunately for us, the Flyers were probably more rated on depth. I am sure someone could research other teams and come up with an average of NHL players that come from highly rated prospects pools, someone but it wont be me . I do think it is fair when Bill says if a players misses a full year, then they are at least that full year behind, which means this season, we should see a step forward from multiple players.

I also think the owner was the driver on those signings.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes, was definitely a factor. Actually, they got outbid by the Flyers but the players wanted to sign together and Suter especially wanted to be able to live just enough off the grid in Minnesota to do a lot of fishing and generally not be bothered by people but close enough to commute to St. Paul. Had his heart set on that. (This is per Paul Holmgren talking to Jay Greenberg in Flyers at 50).

Well, I said one player is good. Can you not make sense of it looking at those 3? Is Joel Farabee Auston Matthews or McDavid?
- ClaudeFather

Made my point for me.

Made my point for me.
- MJL

The delusion is strong with you

Some of us were screaming for DeBrincat over LaBerge on draft day and look at us now lol. (frank) Hextall.
- hereticpride

Well, some Flyers fans were screaming for Hunter Shinkaruk in 2013 and many for Kieffer Bellows in 2016. It's a crapshoot.

The reason why DeBrincat had 38 names called ahead of his in 2016 -- anyone could look at the stats or the highlight videos that displayed his ridiculously good hands -- was that he was a 5-foot-7 player who, while a good skater, was not an electric skater in the scouting reports. Add to that fears of being on the wrong end of mismatches and of what his NHL role would be if he did NOT approach his ceiling as a scorer, and that's why he fell as far as he did. Obviously, in hindsight, 29 of the 30 teams in the NHL at the time blew it.

it is a prospect pool by nature it is crap shoot. I think a prospect pool can be rated for its top end talent and or its depth. Unfortunately for us, the Flyers were probably more rated on depth. I am sure someone could research other teams and come up with an average of NHL players that come from highly rated prospects pools, someone but it wont be me . I do think it is fair when Bill says if a players misses a full year, then they are at least that full year behind, which means this season, we should see a step forward from multiple players.
- wcorvette

Hopefully. It's a crucial season both for those players individually and for the organization's NHL-level depth as a whole.

The question of development and the players in the age 22-to-24 range comes up -- with a lengthy response -- in the Flyers Daily interview with Alyn McCauley that will run tomorrow.

Yes, was definitely a factor. Actually, they got outbid by the Flyers but the players wanted to sign together and Suter especially wanted to be able to live just enough off the grid in Minnesota to do a lot of fishing and generally not be bothered by people but close enough to commute to St. Paul. Had his heart set on that. (This is per Paul Holmgren talking to Jay Greenberg in Flyers at 50).
- bmeltzer

They smartly used the Flyers.

The delusion is strong with you
- ClaudeFather

You asked if Farabee is McDavid or Matthews.

So what do the Flyers have, what is your take

O

Coots, TK and Cam, they have a bottom half 1st line
farabee, Hayes, Allison/Cates Tanner L etc, a 3rd line playing 2nd line
Tipett, Frost and Cates, could be a 3rd line, could surprise and be a 2nd line or could be no NHL line
Linblom, Laughton, Ratcliffe, actually like the 4th line

D

Ellis (say he can play) Provy
Sanheim and Risto
York, Zamula


lets say all young players take a step forward, Vets play well and they team is healthy, we traded JVR and plugged in Allison, plus whomever replaces him when he is hurt. Carter Hart is just a touch better than last season but plays the whole season. the PP and PK are slightly better but still bottom 25%. Team structure is better, well because, how could it be worse?

I believe this would represent the Flyers staying the course.

Keep in mind, plenty of teams have issues of their own.

plug and play with your lineups suggestions and call the finish for 22-23?

Then assume the younger players did step forward are better going into 2023. Frost, Tippett, York (3 with the most upside in my opinion), Ratcliffe and Allison. Assume the TK and Farabee are back to 25-30 goal wingers, Coots in healthy, D is healthy. Their #1 pick from this draft is ready and a couple players from the AHL are ready for a bite, say Attard and Foerester. Oscar was flipped for a pick, you find a way to move the last 2 years of Cams deal, if you are the GM what do you do now and where do you assume you will find in 23-24?

Hopefully. It's a crucial season both for those players individually and for the organization's NHL-level depth as a whole.

The question of development and the players in the age 22-to-24 range comes up -- with a lengthy response -- in the Flyers Daily interview with Alyn McCauley that will run tomorrow.
- bmeltzer

thanks, looking forward to it.

You asked if Farabee is McDavid or Matthews.

- MJL

Right over your head huh, try and keep up.

Neither can their 17 fans!
- mikeyo27

There is a chance that AZ will be relevant in the NHL before the Flyers are

Right over your head huh, try and keep up.
- ClaudeFather

Yep right over my head

There is a chance that AZ will be relevant in the NHL before the Flyers are
- corduroy

The only way they will be relevant is once they announce they are moving to Quebec City.

Apparently Flyers said #5 is “off the table”. Which I’m happy about.
- arichardson22

Double reverse psychology - it is available and will be traded for a bag of magic beans that can cure all of Ellis's injuries

No. And then:

* Wade Allison tore his ACL, needing 18 months to recover, and winding up turning pro after senior year rather than after sophomore. Then missing more than half of his pro rookie season due to injury. Then missing most of his second pro season due to injury.

* Morgan Frost playing only four periods of hockey between the onset of the pandemic until fall 2021, including major shoulder surgery that cost him the 2020-21 season.

* Phil Myers exploding in Draft Plus One season (already after being signed as an undrafted UFA), being on Team Canada WJC's number one pairing -- and called a fast-track NHLer by Bob McKenzie -- until a dirty hit by Luke Kunin. Did fine in AHL and was highly regarded at the NHL level through 2019-20 but then stagnated or even went backwards. Questions arose about his hockey sense.

* Maybe German Rubtsov was overrated in his Draft year. But you can't totally toss out two concussions and a broken nose costing him time in the Q, season-ending shoulder surgery after Game 14 of his AHL rookie year, another shoulder injury that cost him five weeks in year 2, and wrist surgery after pro year 4 as factors that hurt his development.

* Nolan Patrick's neurological issue saga.

* Pascal Laberge's career-threatening Grade 3 concussion -- eventually returned but was never the same prospect again -- and shoulder surgery that limited him to 15 games his first pro year. Essentially lost two seasons of development opportunity.

* Isaac Ratcliffe being put in 4th line/PK role just two months into his first pro season after scoring 50+15 in his D+2 season. Then his second pro year was more or less ruined by broken ribs, collapsed lung and a late season ankle injury. Slow first half in 2021-22 but finally seemed to be getting on track the rest of the way.

* Jay O'Brien has only had one healthy season since he was drafted, and that was a 16-game schedule amid the pandemic. His Providence freshman year was a disaster between injuries (shoulder, concussion), disagreements with the coach and generally being unhappy there. Then lost six weeks to injury in his BCHL season. Pandemic limited his 2020-21 season (officially a sophomore after BU transfer) to 16 games. Was never fully healthy in 2021-22; lost 11 games to injury and underwent after-season surgery.

* Tyson Foerster missed most of 2021-22 due to shoulder surgery. Came back late season but was still working his way back to 100 percent.

* Tanner Laczynski rose quickly after being drafted; was a surprise inclusion on gold-medal winning Team USA at WJC. Was able to stay healthy during his collegiate career but turned down opportunity to turn pro after junior season. As a pro, has lost significant time to surgeries on both hips. Likely would have been an NHL regular (bottom six, but a regular nonetheless) if not for the torn labrums on both hips.

* Zayde Wisdom lost the first half of 2021-22 to offseason shoulder injury and surgery.

* Other players were in a good place through their D+1 and/or D+2 years but then didn't continue to progress once they turned pro. Maksim Sushko is one who even took it through a promising 1st AHL season but then went backwards. Injuries were at least a secondary factor.

I'm not saying that ALL of these players would be contributing regularly in the NHL if they hadn't had major injuries. But I am saying that the Flyers have had a mind-boggling amount of horrid luck health wise with their prospects and anytime a player loses essentially a full year or development time, it can easily set the player's timetable back by at least the equivalent amount. Some do not recover at all.

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.
- bmeltzer

All of the injuries have hampered the development of the players playing a "200 foot game" and "Flyers Hockey"

9-24 the pain begins

The power of hindsight so strong today. Stronger than ever before.