Oskar is a solid NHL player. Cant hate on that pick and being an NHL player.
- hello it's me 2050

He’s a bottom 6 player, great for where he was picked but that’s not moving the needle. You can get those anywhere. Someone will get Colin White on the cheap after his buyout and he will probably out produce Lindblom.

He’s a bottom 6 player, great for where he was picked but that’s not moving the needle. You can get those anywhere. Someone will get Colin White on the cheap after his buyout and he will probably out produce Lindblom.
- ClaudeFather

When your 5th rd pick becomes an nhl regular you made a great pick.

Looking back it's laughable this group was ranked #2.

https://www.sportingnews....tn8fb6mqnial16bxvtds5dacu

PROSPECT POSITION 2018-19 TEAM (Proj.) ACQUIRED
1. Joel Farabee LW Boston U. (NCAA) 1st/2018
2. Carter Hart G Lehigh Valley (AHL) 2nd/2016
3. Philippe Myers RHD Lehigh Valley (AHL) UDFA
4. Morgan Frost C Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) 1st/2017
5. Oskar Lindblom LW Philadelphia (NHL) 5th/2014
6. German Rubstov C Lehigh Valley (AHL) 1st/2016
7. Jay O'Brien C Providence (NCAA) 1st/2018
8. Mike Vecchione C/W Lehigh Valley (AHL) UDFA
9. Isaac Ratcliffe LW Guelph (AHL) 2nd/2017
10. Wade Allison RW W. Michigan (NCAA) 2nd/2016

There's only 4 NHL regulars in there, with Myers going back to the AHL this season.
- Feanor

It was ranked due to quantity of projectable NHL players and not high quality. If the bar is just playing in the NHL, thats a low bar.

When your 5th rd pick becomes an nhl regular you made a great pick.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes, but totally irrelevant here. If a team is ranked the second best prospect pool, I’m expecting some damn good players.

And then reality set in and the farm system was more of a chicken coop in your neighbors backyard.
- ClaudeFather

No. And then:

* Wade Allison tore his ACL, needing 18 months to recover, and winding up turning pro after senior year rather than after sophomore. Then missing more than half of his pro rookie season due to injury. Then missing most of his second pro season due to injury.

* Morgan Frost playing only four periods of hockey between the onset of the pandemic until fall 2021, including major shoulder surgery that cost him the 2020-21 season.

* Phil Myers exploding in Draft Plus One season (already after being signed as an undrafted UFA), being on Team Canada WJC's number one pairing -- and called a fast-track NHLer by Bob McKenzie -- until a dirty hit by Luke Kunin. Did fine in AHL and was highly regarded at the NHL level through 2019-20 but then stagnated or even went backwards. Questions arose about his hockey sense.

* Maybe German Rubtsov was overrated in his Draft year. But you can't totally toss out two concussions and a broken nose costing him time in the Q, season-ending shoulder surgery after Game 14 of his AHL rookie year, another shoulder injury that cost him five weeks in year 2, and wrist surgery after pro year 4 as factors that hurt his development.

* Nolan Patrick's neurological issue saga.

* Pascal Laberge's career-threatening Grade 3 concussion -- eventually returned but was never the same prospect again -- and shoulder surgery that limited him to 15 games his first pro year. Essentially lost two seasons of development opportunity.

* Isaac Ratcliffe being put in 4th line/PK role just two months into his first pro season after scoring 50+15 in his D+2 season. Then his second pro year was more or less ruined by broken ribs, collapsed lung and a late season ankle injury. Slow first half in 2021-22 but finally seemed to be getting on track the rest of the way.

* Jay O'Brien has only had one healthy season since he was drafted, and that was a 16-game schedule amid the pandemic. His Providence freshman year was a disaster between injuries (shoulder, concussion), disagreements with the coach and generally being unhappy there. Then lost six weeks to injury in his BCHL season. Pandemic limited his 2020-21 season (officially a sophomore after BU transfer) to 16 games. Was never fully healthy in 2021-22; lost 11 games to injury and underwent after-season surgery.

* Tyson Foerster missed most of 2021-22 due to shoulder surgery. Came back late season but was still working his way back to 100 percent.

* Tanner Laczynski rose quickly after being drafted; was a surprise inclusion on gold-medal winning Team USA at WJC. Was able to stay healthy during his collegiate career but turned down opportunity to turn pro after junior season. As a pro, has lost significant time to surgeries on both hips. Likely would have been an NHL regular (bottom six, but a regular nonetheless) if not for the torn labrums on both hips.

* Zayde Wisdom lost the first half of 2021-22 to offseason shoulder injury and surgery.

* Other players were in a good place through their D+1 and/or D+2 years but then didn't continue to progress once they turned pro. Maksim Sushko is one who even took it through a promising 1st AHL season but then went backwards. Injuries were at least a secondary factor.

I'm not saying that ALL of these players would be contributing regularly in the NHL if they hadn't had major injuries. But I am saying that the Flyers have had a mind-boggling amount of horrid luck health wise with their prospects and anytime a player loses essentially a full year or development time, it can easily set the player's timetable back by at least the equivalent amount. Some do not recover at all.

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.

No. And then:

* Wade Allison tore his ACL, needing 18 months to recover, and winding up turning pro after senior year rather than after sophomore. Then missing more than half of his pro rookie season due to injury. Then missing most of his second pro season due to injury.

* Morgan Frost playing only four periods of hockey between the onset of the pandemic until fall 2021, including major shoulder surgery that cost him the 2020-21 season.

* Phil Myers exploding in Draft Plus One season (already after being signed as an undrafted UFA), being on Team Canada WJC's number one pairing -- and called a fast-track NHLer by Bob McKenzie -- until a dirty hit by Luke Kunin. Did fine in AHL and was highly regarded at the NHL level through 2019-20 but then stagnated or even went backwards. Questions arose about his hockey sense.

* Maybe German Rubtsov was overrated in his Draft year. But you can't totally toss out two concussions and a broken nose costing him time in the Q, season-ending shoulder surgery after Game 14 of his AHL rookie year, another shoulder injury that cost him five weeks in year 2, and wrist surgery after pro year 4 as factors that hurt his development.

* Nolan Patrick's neurological issue saga.

* Pascal Laberge's career-threatening Grade 3 concussion -- eventually returned but was never the same prospect again -- and shoulder surgery that limited him to 15 games his first pro year. Essentially lost two seasons of development opportunity.

* Isaac Ratcliffe being put in 4th line/PK role just two months into his first pro season after scoring 50+15 in his D+2 season. Then his second pro year was more or less ruined by broken ribs, collapsed lung and a late season ankle injury. Slow first half in 2021-22 but finally seemed to be getting on track the rest of the way.

* Jay O'Brien has only had one healthy season since he was drafted, and that was a 16-game schedule amid the pandemic. His Providence freshman year was a disaster between injuries (shoulder, concussion), disagreements with the coach and generally being unhappy there. Then lost six weeks to injury in his BCHL season. Pandemic limited his 2020-21 season (officially a sophomore after BU transfer) to 16 games. Was never fully healthy in 2021-22; lost 11 games to injury and underwent after-season surgery.

* Tyson Foerster missed most of 2021-22 due to shoulder surgery. Came back late season but was still working his way back to 100 percent.

* Tanner Laczynski rose quickly after being drafted; was a surprise inclusion on gold-medal winning Team USA at WJC. Was able to stay healthy during his collegiate career but turned down opportunity to turn pro after junior season. As a pro, has lost significant time to surgeries on both hips. Likely would have been an NHL regular (bottom six, but a regular nonetheless) if not for the torn labrums on both hips.

* Zayde Wisdom lost the first half of 2021-22 to offseason shoulder injury and surgery.

* Other players were in a good place through their D+1 and/or D+2 years but then didn't continue to progress once they turned pro. Maksim Sushko is one who even took it through a promising 1st AHL season but then went backwards. Injuries were at least a secondary factor.

I'm not saying that ALL of these players would be contributing regularly in the NHL if they hadn't had major injuries. But I am saying that the Flyers have had a mind-boggling amount of horrid luck health wise with their prospects and anytime a player loses essentially a full year or development time, it can easily set the player's timetable back by at least the equivalent amount. Some do not recover at all.

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.
- bmeltzer

Bill always bringin' the facts

No. And then:

* Wade Allison tore his ACL, needing 18 months to recover, and winding up turning pro after senior year rather than after sophomore. Then missing more than half of his pro rookie season due to injury. Then missing most of his second pro season due to injury.

* Morgan Frost playing only four periods of hockey between the onset of the pandemic until fall 2021, including major shoulder surgery that cost him the 2020-21 season.

* Phil Myers exploding in Draft Plus One season (already after being signed as an undrafted UFA), being on Team Canada WJC's number one pairing -- and called a fast-track NHLer by Bob McKenzie -- until a dirty hit by Luke Kunin. Did fine in AHL and was highly regarded at the NHL level through 2019-20 but then stagnated or even went backwards. Questions arose about his hockey sense.

* Maybe German Rubtsov was overrated in his Draft year. But you can't totally toss out two concussions and a broken nose costing him time in the Q, season-ending shoulder surgery after Game 14 of his AHL rookie year, another shoulder injury that cost him five weeks in year 2, and wrist surgery after pro year 4 as factors that hurt his development.

* Nolan Patrick's neurological issue saga.

* Pascal Laberge's career-threatening Grade 3 concussion -- eventually returned but was never the same prospect again -- and shoulder surgery that limited him to 15 games his first pro year. Essentially lost two seasons of development opportunity.

* Isaac Ratcliffe being put in 4th line/PK role just two months into his first pro season after scoring 50+15 in his D+2 season. Then his second pro year was more or less ruined by broken ribs, collapsed lung and a late season ankle injury. Slow first half in 2021-22 but finally seemed to be getting on track the rest of the way.

* Jay O'Brien has only had one healthy season since he was drafted, and that was a 16-game schedule amid the pandemic. His Providence freshman year was a disaster between injuries (shoulder, concussion), disagreements with the coach and generally being unhappy there. Then lost six weeks to injury in his BCHL season. Pandemic limited his 2020-21 season (officially a sophomore after BU transfer) to 16 games. Was never fully healthy in 2021-22; lost 11 games to injury and underwent after-season surgery.

* Tyson Foerster missed most of 2021-22 due to shoulder surgery. Came back late season but was still working his way back to 100 percent.

* Tanner Laczynski rose quickly after being drafted; was a surprise inclusion on gold-medal winning Team USA at WJC. Was able to stay healthy during his collegiate career but turned down opportunity to turn pro after junior season. As a pro, has lost significant time to surgeries on both hips. Likely would have been an NHL regular (bottom six, but a regular nonetheless) if not for the torn labrums on both hips.

* Zayde Wisdom lost the first half of 2021-22 to offseason shoulder injury and surgery.

* Other players were in a good place through their D+1 and/or D+2 years but then didn't continue to progress once they turned pro. Maksim Sushko is one who even took it through a promising 1st AHL season but then went backwards. Injuries were at least a secondary factor.

I'm not saying that ALL of these players would be contributing regularly in the NHL if they hadn't had major injuries. But I am saying that the Flyers have had a mind-boggling amount of horrid luck health wise with their prospects and anytime a player loses essentially a full year or development time, it can easily set the player's timetable back by at least the equivalent amount. Some do not recover at all.

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.
- bmeltzer

Lot of guys on this list that are extreme reaches to be impact NHL players. Laberge, JOB , Rubstov, Ratcliffe. Some guys still younger but this doesn’t change the fact that the prospect pool was a house of cards. You listed a bunch of excuses, not 1 guy can overcome them? Laughing stock of the NHL, if anything you further proved my point.

Bill always bringin' the facts
- Tomahawk

Lists a laundry list of excuses, great point Bill!

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.
- bmeltzer

Personally this is my main issue with the whole philosophy of the team. I think many times they looked for the guy who had as few "weaknesses" as possible but didn't really have a major strength. A 200 foot player who did everything good but nothing great or even above average. And on the off chance they drafted a guy who had skill as a skater of shooter, they tried to turn them in to a checker. Or at least stifled his strength to make him in to something else.

Some of us were screaming for DeBrincat over LaBerge on draft day and look at us now lol. (frank) Hextall.

He’s a bottom 6 player, great for where he was picked but that’s not moving the needle. You can get those anywhere. Someone will get Colin White on the cheap after his buyout and he will probably out produce Lindblom.
- ClaudeFather

He was a projected 1st round pick (see IIHF 2013 Draft Preview projections for 2014, which had Lindblom top 10) but skating concerns and a slower-than-hoped Draft year (until the final 1/4 plus U18s) caused him to plummet. Was still considered a top 100 pick and no one was quite sure why ended up falling to 138.

People have already forgotten just how good Lindblom was in the second half of 2018-19 and the carryover into 2019-20 before the cancer diagnosis. He could be plugged anywhere into the top 9 and whoever's line he was on benefited from it. Scott Gordon and Vigneault LOVED the player in that time period.

The man underwent not only chemotherapy but rib removal surgery. That takes a long time to get anywhere close to 100 percent again. Toss out his 2020-21 season entirely.

At camp last season, everyone (myself included) thought he looked like the player he had been before the cancer diagnosis. Then, for whatever, reason -- Yeo later said, and was probably right -- that Lindblom was still facing some of the mental hurdles of trusting his body and his game again.

On the day AV was fired, Lindblom had dressed throughout the season but had zero goals and a single assist in 23 games. But then he had 12 goals and 25 points the rest of season despite: a) being on a team that in generally really struggled to score goals; b) getting scant PP time and spending much of the latter part of the season on the 4th line, and c) playing banged up for at least a month at the same time that Atkinson and Farabee were similarly banged up but playing.

I don't know if Lindblom will ever fully get back to the player he was before the cancer diagnosis. I DO know that he seemed to be bouncing back to a not-insignificant degree for a couple months last season even as everything else was falling apart. Wish he'd stayed healthier.

That massive prospect injury list should have convinced Fletcher not to throw away first and second round draft picks.

They still don't have a 2nd in 2022 or in 2023.

Joke. There’s one good NHL player in that group. Carter Hart is still a bit of a question mark. The rest is nothing.
- ClaudeFather

Farabee, Hart and Lindblom are all good NHL players. Frost has a chance to be one.

No. And then:

* Wade Allison tore his ACL, needing 18 months to recover, and winding up turning pro after senior year rather than after sophomore. Then missing more than half of his pro rookie season due to injury. Then missing most of his second pro season due to injury.

* Morgan Frost playing only four periods of hockey between the onset of the pandemic until fall 2021, including major shoulder surgery that cost him the 2020-21 season.

* Phil Myers exploding in Draft Plus One season (already after being signed as an undrafted UFA), being on Team Canada WJC's number one pairing -- and called a fast-track NHLer by Bob McKenzie -- until a dirty hit by Luke Kunin. Did fine in AHL and was highly regarded at the NHL level through 2019-20 but then stagnated or even went backwards. Questions arose about his hockey sense.

* Maybe German Rubtsov was overrated in his Draft year. But you can't totally toss out two concussions and a broken nose costing him time in the Q, season-ending shoulder surgery after Game 14 of his AHL rookie year, another shoulder injury that cost him five weeks in year 2, and wrist surgery after pro year 4 as factors that hurt his development.

* Nolan Patrick's neurological issue saga.

* Pascal Laberge's career-threatening Grade 3 concussion -- eventually returned but was never the same prospect again -- and shoulder surgery that limited him to 15 games his first pro year. Essentially lost two seasons of development opportunity.

* Isaac Ratcliffe being put in 4th line/PK role just two months into his first pro season after scoring 50+15 in his D+2 season. Then his second pro year was more or less ruined by broken ribs, collapsed lung and a late season ankle injury. Slow first half in 2021-22 but finally seemed to be getting on track the rest of the way.

* Jay O'Brien has only had one healthy season since he was drafted, and that was a 16-game schedule amid the pandemic. His Providence freshman year was a disaster between injuries (shoulder, concussion), disagreements with the coach and generally being unhappy there. Then lost six weeks to injury in his BCHL season. Pandemic limited his 2020-21 season (officially a sophomore after BU transfer) to 16 games. Was never fully healthy in 2021-22; lost 11 games to injury and underwent after-season surgery.

* Tyson Foerster missed most of 2021-22 due to shoulder surgery. Came back late season but was still working his way back to 100 percent.

* Tanner Laczynski rose quickly after being drafted; was a surprise inclusion on gold-medal winning Team USA at WJC. Was able to stay healthy during his collegiate career but turned down opportunity to turn pro after junior season. As a pro, has lost significant time to surgeries on both hips. Likely would have been an NHL regular (bottom six, but a regular nonetheless) if not for the torn labrums on both hips.

* Zayde Wisdom lost the first half of 2021-22 to offseason shoulder injury and surgery.

* Other players were in a good place through their D+1 and/or D+2 years but then didn't continue to progress once they turned pro. Maksim Sushko is one who even took it through a promising 1st AHL season but then went backwards. Injuries were at least a secondary factor.

I'm not saying that ALL of these players would be contributing regularly in the NHL if they hadn't had major injuries. But I am saying that the Flyers have had a mind-boggling amount of horrid luck health wise with their prospects and anytime a player loses essentially a full year or development time, it can easily set the player's timetable back by at least the equivalent amount. Some do not recover at all.

There are other factors involved, too, in terms of deployment, emphasis level on correcting weaknesses vs. maximum strengths, etc. It's not 100 percent due to injuries.
- bmeltzer

you believe the majority is due to injuries by reading what you said above. Do you think players like Frost, Allison, Tanner, Wisdom, Ratcliffe and Foerester will get on track from what you know?

I do believe Frost will take a step forward, Allison if healthy but you have more inside info . I also think why most on this board want to let them play this year, then maybe their value goes up again

Farabee, Hart and Lindblom are all good NHL players. Frost has a chance to be one.
- MJL

Define good? An average at best goalie and a bottom 6 player?

https://twitter.com/billm...5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

are you defending Fletcher Bill?

He was a projected 1st round pick (see IIHF 2013 Draft Preview projections for 2014, which had Lindblom top 10) but skating concerns and a slower-than-hoped Draft year (until the final 1/4 plus U18s) caused him to plummet. Was still considered a top 100 pick and no one was quite sure why ended up falling to 138.

People have already forgotten just how good Lindblom was in the second half of 2018-19 and the carryover into 2019-20 before the cancer diagnosis. He could be plugged anywhere into the top 9 and whoever's line he was on benefited from it. Scott Gordon and Vigneault LOVED the player in that time period.

The man underwent not only chemotherapy but rib removal surgery. That takes a long time to get anywhere close to 100 percent again. Toss out his 2020-21 season entirely.

At camp last season, everyone (myself included) thought he looked like the player he had been before the cancer diagnosis. Then, for whatever, reason -- Yeo later said, and was probably right -- that Lindblom was still facing some of the mental hurdles of trusting his body and his game again.

On the day AV was fired, Lindblom had dressed throughout the season but had zero goals and a single assist in 23 games. But then he had 12 goals and 25 points the rest of season despite: a) being on a team that in generally really struggled to score goals; b) getting scant PP time and spending much of the latter part of the season on the 4th line, and c) playing banged up for at least a month at the same time that Atkinson and Farabee were similarly banged up but playing.

I don't know if Lindblom will ever fully get back to the player he was before the cancer diagnosis. I DO know that he seemed to be bouncing back to a not-insignificant degree for a couple months last season even as everything else was falling apart. Wish he'd stayed healthier.
- bmeltzer

Hell of a fighter the kid is. It’s all about consistently producing, something sorely lacking for most of the Flyers prospects and young players.

He was a projected 1st round pick (see IIHF 2013 Draft Preview projections for 2014, which had Lindblom top 10) but skating concerns and a slower-than-hoped Draft year (until the final 1/4 plus U18s) caused him to plummet. Was still considered a top 100 pick and no one was quite sure why ended up falling to 138.

People have already forgotten just how good Lindblom was in the second half of 2018-19 and the carryover into 2019-20 before the cancer diagnosis. He could be plugged anywhere into the top 9 and whoever's line he was on benefited from it. Scott Gordon and Vigneault LOVED the player in that time period.

The man underwent not only chemotherapy but rib removal surgery. That takes a long time to get anywhere close to 100 percent again. Toss out his 2020-21 season entirely.



At camp last season, everyone (myself included) thought he looked like the player he had been before the cancer diagnosis. Then, for whatever, reason -- Yeo later said, and was probably right -- that Lindblom was still facing some of the mental hurdles of trusting his body and his game again.

On the day AV was fired, Lindblom had dressed throughout the season but had zero goals and a single assist in 23 games. But then he had 12 goals and 25 points the rest of season despite: a) being on a team that in generally really struggled to score goals; b) getting scant PP time and spending much of the latter part of the season on the 4th line, and c) playing banged up for at least a month at the same time that Atkinson and Farabee were similarly banged up but playing.

I don't know if Lindblom will ever fully get back to the player he was before the cancer diagnosis. I DO know that he seemed to be bouncing back to a not-insignificant degree for a couple months last season even as everything else was falling apart. Wish he'd stayed healthier.
- bmeltzer

hope he does bounce all the way back, what you wrote above is a great pitch to move him and get value for him. On the right team, that has speed and above average skating Lindblom will fit better. I am not knocking his skating, it is just a team wide need for the Flyers.

Lists a laundry list of excuses, great point Bill!
- ClaudeFather

Go talk to ANY NHL player personnel director, AGM or GM or developmental coach. Ask then if a major injury in the developmental phase is "just an excuse" for slowed development. Also, I said injuries haven't been the only reason and pointed to other factors.

There was good reason why the Flyers' system was ranked so highly and reasons why why they've fallen short. None of them are excuses. Just facts.

Farabee, Hart and Lindblom are all good NHL players. Frost has a chance to be one.
- MJL

Frost is the one I really want them to hold, I think this season could be good for him.

Define good? An average at best goalie and a bottom 6 player?
- ClaudeFather

Well you tell me. Do you define every player by the same standard? Measure them up to the elite of the league such as McDavid and Matthews and if they don't, then they aren't good players? Sometimes you have to consider the factors around the team and look at each player in context and also use some common sense.

https://twitter.com/billmeltzer/status/1544075471566082048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1544075471566082048%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

are you defending Fletcher Bill?
- hello it's me 2050

Not defending or attacking. Am presenting a fact: the two best seasons in Wild franchise history (including a 106-point season) came while Parise and Suter were still in their respective primes after signing with Minnesota. I also noted that the cap hit/term on the two contracts eventually caused long-term pain that the team is still feeling.

Those are facts, not hyperbole.

Go talk to ANY NHL player personnel director, AGM or GM or developmental coach. Ask then if a major injury in the developmental phase is "just an excuse" for slowed development. Also, I said injuries haven't been the only reason and pointed to other factors.

There was good reason why the Flyers' system was ranked so highly and reasons why why they've fallen short. None of them are excuses. Just facts.
- bmeltzer

Can't fight the ignorance Bill.

Go talk to ANY NHL player personnel director, AGM or GM or developmental coach. Ask then if a major injury in the developmental phase is "just an excuse" for slowed development. Also, I said injuries haven't been the only reason and pointed to other factors.

There was good reason why the Flyers' system was ranked so highly and reasons why why they've fallen short. None of them are excuses. Just facts.
- bmeltzer

Not one guy can overcome them? Obviously a major issue but every single guy. The prospect pool was over hyped, maybe not by a ton, but there wasn’t much top talent in there. Hart was a big star in the making but he’s just been ok and Farabee is a good player.

hope he does bounce all the way back, what you wrote above is a great pitch to move him and get value for him. On the right team, that has speed and above average skating Lindblom will fit better. I am not knocking his skating, it is just a team wide need for the Flyers.
- wcorvette

I agree. Am also not opposed to trading him. Am vehemently opposed to a buyout, however.