That is false. I'm a so called Hextall defender and I don't think it means if you didn't like Hextall you like Fletcher. That's an absurd comment that you have no basis to make and a follish comment. The fact is that Hextall added some quality players in Konecny, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart, Lindblom and Farabee. There are some others that could become regular NHL players with Frost still having the potential to be a top 6 regular. The team under Hextall was positioned well for the future with a solid staple of young players. He was not permitted to see it through. That's the reality.
- MJL

an absurd comment by a poster that has many

The biggest problem with Hextall as I understand it was how badly he treated people. It was a lot more than just shutting out the old guard, it was his completely controlling, and from some perspectives paranoid, way he ran the franchise. He alienated a lot of people and that ultimately is why he was fired. One of old bosses explained to me years ago that you can make mistakes, even multiple mistakes, but if people like you and like working with you, you will always have a job. No GM is perfect, they make decisions every day and some work out and some don't. But when you have a string of mistakes and people don't like you, that usually means dismissal is in your near future.
- jd250

Plus had a rat fink assistant report back to him spying on the coach.

Why is it that if anyone points out that Hextall did not do as good of a job as Flyers GM as some like you believe are called Hextall-haters? I for one do not hate Hextall and when he was hired I like most Flyers fans was very excited. Hextall had 5 years before his tenure was ended, and now we can objectively look back and see the fruits of his work, and frankly its not impressive, not in the least! Who knows what Hextall and his scouts draft board looked like in 2017, it doesn't matter. What matters is Hextall got it wrong; he whiffed badly with the 2nd overall pick in the draft and has set this franchise back several years as a result. Again I don't have any personal ill-will for Hextall, these are just the facts! You have no problem killing Fletcher for every thing he does or doesn't do, but it seems when it comes to Hextall you can only defend.
- jd250

You're a poster that has repeatedly tried to use the Hextall situation in a disengenous thinly veiled attempt to get at me. Those that objectively look at Hextall reign whether I agree with them or no, are not considered Hextall haters. At least in my book. There is more to Hextall's work than just the 2nd overall pick. I myself have repeatedly stated that the obvious failure of Hextall's reign is that he failed to add an elite player.
When we look at the facts overall, Hextall did a decent job for the situation he was in. When he left, the team was in a better position than when he started and he put into place a decent foundation to build on.
Since Fletcher has been here, he has been led around like a sheep, given into the country club and set the franchise back with poor moves and bad cap management. That is the overall picture to this point of Fletcher's performance.


Again, I'll lay out the reality. A team with cap flexibility and failed prospects is always a better situation than a mediocre, capped out team with older players.

The biggest problem with Hextall as I understand it was how badly he treated people. It was a lot more than just shutting out the old guard, it was his completely controlling, and from some perspectives paranoid, way he ran the franchise. He alienated a lot of people and that ultimately is why he was fired. One of old bosses explained to me years ago that you can make mistakes, even multiple mistakes, but if people like you and like working with you, you will always have a job. No GM is perfect, they make decisions every day and some work out and some don't. But when you have a string of mistakes and people don't like you, that usually means dismissal is in your near future.
- jd250

That narrative came from the old guard. Who he shut out.

In the vacuum of his specific tenure he was fine. However, he left the franchise decimated in terms of cap space and pipeline. If he had won a cup I would be fine with Holmgren. Holmgren and Fletcher are basically the same GM though. Holmgren just had better results.
- mickel25

Some of the biggest moves Holmgren made was he signed Briere as a free agent and traded for Timonen and Hartnell. Now what if in year one Briere loses his closest relative and then has 3 abdominal surgeries, and Timonen gets hurt in pre-season and does not play for the rest of the year? Would we still be saying Holmgren was a better GM than Fletcher? Your answer should be it depends on what those players did in the subsequent seasons. So if Ellis comes back this season stays healthy and regains the form that had him as one of the top defenseman in the league, and Hayes comes back to his 2019-2020 season form, will we still say Holmgren had better results? My point is there is a lot of luck involved in any move a GM makes, and since he has been here, Fletcher has had ZERO luck, first with Covid and then with the myriad of injuries to this team and system across the board! Does anyone believe AVs tenure would have been so short if Covid never happened?

Anthony Duclair out for a good long while with an offseason achilles injury. I bet that increases the possibility Giroux resigns with Florida.

Now back to our regularly scheduled insult fest.

Well positioned for what? Praying McDavid signs with the Flyers? End of the day he had a bunch of decent not great players. He did nothing.
- ClaudeFather

Continuing to make my point. Thanks.

You're a poster that has repeatedly tried to use the Hextall situation in a disengenous thinly veiled attempt to get at me. Those that objectively look at Hextall reign whether I agree with them or no, are not considered Hextall haters. At least in my book. There is more to Hextall's work than just the 2nd overall pick. I myself have repeatedly stated that the obvious failure of Hextall's reign is that he failed to add an elite player.
When we look at the facts overall, Hextall did a decent job for the situation he was in. When he left, the team was in a better position than when he started and he put into place a decent foundation to build on.
Since Fletcher has been here, he has been led around like a sheep, given into the country club and set the franchise back with poor moves and bad cap management. That is the overall picture to this point of Fletcher's performance.


Again, I'll lay out the reality. A team with cap flexibility and failed prospects is always a better situation than a mediocre, capped out team with older players.
- MJL

Decent = average. Big deal that isn't good enough Cliff.

How has he made out so far in Piit? Has he done a good job?

I don't know. I actually think Holmgren did pretty well. Yes he never got the ultimate goal but he only missed the playoffs twice from 2007 to 2014.
- J35Bacher

I agree, Homer did well. And he realized when it was time for him to step away also.

That narrative came from the old guard. Who he shut out.
- MJL

Narrative lol. No he was a rat fink tyrant.

Continuing to make my point. Thanks.

- MJL

What a success...

Some of the biggest moves Holmgren made was he signed Briere as a free agent and traded for Timonen and Hartnell. Now what if in year one Briere loses his closest relative and then has 3 abdominal surgeries, and Timonen gets hurt in pre-season and does not play for the rest of the year? Would we still be saying Holmgren was a better GM than Fletcher? Your answer should be it depends on what those players did in the subsequent seasons. So if Ellis comes back this season stays healthy and regains the form that had him as one of the top defenseman in the league, and Hayes comes back to his 2019-2020 season form, will we still say Holmgren had better results? My point is there is a lot of luck involved in any move a GM makes, and since he has been here, Fletcher has had ZERO luck, first with Covid and then with the myriad of injuries to this team and system across the board! Does anyone believe AVs tenure would have been so short if Covid never happened?
- jd250

People make their own luck. Chuck sucks. Stop with the luck crap.

Some of the biggest moves Holmgren made was he signed Briere as a free agent and traded for Timonen and Hartnell. Now what if in year one Briere loses his closest relative and then has 3 abdominal surgeries, and Timonen gets hurt in pre-season and does not play for the rest of the year? Would we still be saying Holmgren was a better GM than Fletcher? Your answer should be it depends on what those players did in the subsequent seasons. So if Ellis comes back this season stays healthy and regains the form that had him as one of the top defenseman in the league, and Hayes comes back to his 2019-2020 season form, will we still say Holmgren had better results? My point is there is a lot of luck involved in any move a GM makes, and since he has been here, Fletcher has had ZDERO luck, first with Covid and then with the myriad of injuries to this team and system across the board! Does anyone believe AVs tenure would have been so short if Covid never happened?
- jd250

Or traded a 1st a 2nd a serviceable 3rd pair dman, in addition to make room , trade Ghost and another pick for RR

a 1st, 2 2nds and an entire 3rd D pairing

Qatar World Cup: FIFA sells 1.8 million tickets for 2022 tournament

and thats in thats on the sun's surface. Cant wait to see the numbers for the 2026 World Cup....

How many more season tickets did the Flyers sell with the Torts hire. You know it lead off the local news' 45 second sports spot at the end of the broadcast

Some of the biggest moves Holmgren made was he signed Briere as a free agent and traded for Timonen and Hartnell. Now what if in year one Briere loses his closest relative and then has 3 abdominal surgeries, and Timonen gets hurt in pre-season and does not play for the rest of the year? Would we still be saying Holmgren was a better GM than Fletcher? Your answer should be it depends on what those players did in the subsequent seasons. So if Ellis comes back this season stays healthy and regains the form that had him as one of the top defenseman in the league, and Hayes comes back to his 2019-2020 season form, will we still say Holmgren had better results? My point is there is a lot of luck involved in any move a GM makes, and since he has been here, Fletcher has had ZERO luck, first with Covid and then with the myriad of injuries to this team and system across the board! Does anyone believe AVs tenure would have been so short if Covid never happened?
- jd250

A caveat to your comparison is that Briere was the TOP free agent in that year and was a much better player than Hayes. Second, Timonen had a history of being a durable player while Ellis had/has a history of the exact opposite.

Yes luck always comes in to play in any situation, but the bottom line is that they over payed for Hayes out of desperation and he rolled a stacked set of dice on the Ellis trade. Everyone knew it was stacked, even Fletch.

And don't get me started about the Ghost trade, which IMO was directly related to the fact that AV did not know how to use him, or more accurately, did NOT want to use him.

At the time I hated the trade and still do.

And compound that with the insane Ristolainen trade, to me Fletch has been an abject disaster.

Where this team is now, even with the stipulation that Ellis and Hayes somehow live up to their deals, I would still rather have Hagg, Ghost, the first pick we lost and the 2nd pick we don't have this year (AND NEXT YEAR) over Ristolainen and his poopty 5 year deal.

You're a poster that has repeatedly tried to use the Hextall situation in a disengenous thinly veiled attempt to get at me. Those that objectively look at Hextall reign whether I agree with them or no, are not considered Hextall haters. At least in my book. There is more to Hextall's work than just the 2nd overall pick. I myself have repeatedly stated that the obvious failure of Hextall's reign is that he failed to add an elite player.
When we look at the facts overall, Hextall did a decent job for the situation he was in. When he left, the team was in a better position than when he started and he put into place a decent foundation to build on.
Since Fletcher has been here, he has been led around like a sheep, given into the country club and set the franchise back with poor moves and bad cap management. That is the overall picture to this point of Fletcher's performance.


Again, I'll lay out the reality. A team with cap flexibility and failed prospects is always a better situation than a mediocre, capped out team with older players.
- MJL

In Hextall's last season as GM, the 2018-1019 Flyers finished in 6th place, had several older players on the roster, e.g. Jori Lehtera, Dale Weise and Andrew MacDonald, and had the following cap situation.

FINAL CAP HIT: $70,814,220
FINAL CAP SPACE: $8,685,780
LTIR USED: $0

The 2012-2022 Flyers finished in 8th place and have $5.1M in cap space. Are things really that different?

In Hextall's last season as GM, the 2018-1019 Flyers finished in 6th place, had several older players on the roster, e.g. Jori Lehtera, Dale Weise and Andrew MacDonald, and had the following cap situation.

FINAL CAP HIT: $70,814,220
FINAL CAP SPACE: $8,685,780
LTIR USED: $0

The 2012-2022 Flyers finished in 8th place and have $5.1M in cap space. Are things really that different?
- jd250

So you are saying Chuck failed as well. I agree.

In Hextall's last season as GM, the 2018-1019 Flyers finished in 6th place, had several older players on the roster, e.g. Jori Lehtera, Dale Weise and Andrew MacDonald, and had the following cap situation.

FINAL CAP HIT: $70,814,220
FINAL CAP SPACE: $8,685,780
LTIR USED: $0

The 2012-2022 Flyers finished in 8th place and have $5.1M in cap space. Are things really that different?
- jd250

Yes, now the Flyers are a capped out mediocre team. You don't seem to understand that most of the 5M in cap space that the Flyers have is already accounted for .

Lehtera was an expiring UFA and MacDonald and Weise had one year left in 18/19

Currently, Ristolainen has 5 years left. Ellis 5 years left and Atkinson and Hayes have 4 years left.

Yes, now the Flyers are a capped out mediocre team. You don't seem to understand that most of the 5M in cap space that the Flyers have is already accounted for .

Lehtera was an expiring UFA and MacDonald and Weise had one year left in 18/19

Currently, Ristolainen has 5 years left. Ellis 5 years left and Atkinson and Hayes have 4 years left.
- MJL

Mediocre mainly because of all the mediocre core players Ronald drafted and missed on.

Mediocre mainly because of all the mediocre core players Ronald drafted and missed on.
- hello it's me 2050

The fact that people defend Hextall is absurd.

Mediocre mainly because of all the mediocre core players Ronald drafted and missed on.
- hello it's me 2050

Mediocre because there organizational philosophy is flawed and it has caught up to them. They have the wrong people in charge to get them out of it.

People can assess blame to any current or former employee they want. This is an org failure since the cap was implemented.

Ron Hextall is the GM equivalent of a lawn care guy that came and cleared debris at your house but didn’t actually mulch or plant anything new. Thanks I guess Ron.
Fletcher is the one that put the Kubota through the side of your house.

Mediocre because there organizational philosophy is flawed and it has caught up to them. They have the wrong people in charge to get them out of it.

People can assess blame to any current or former employee they want. This is an org failure since the cap was implemented.
- mickel25

Correct that is also a part of it. Many reasons. So is what I stated as well.

Nothing else to do pre-draft but argue about which regime is responsible for the mess that is the Philadelphia Flyers I see

You know what, you’re all wasting your breath, or key strokes in this case, as it’s a culmination of poor decisions from Comcast stooges on down to the past three general managers.

Ron Hextall is the GM equivalent of a lawn care guy that came and cleared debris at your house but didn’t actually mulch or plant anything new. Thanks I guess Ron.
Fletcher is the one that put the Kubota through the side of your house.
- ClaudeFather

That's not correct. The correct equivalence of Hextall as a lawn guy is that he was clearing out the debris at your house from years of lack of care and you fired him before he could finish the job because you thought it should only take an hour.