Shawn Simpson
@TSNSimmer
I think this all points to Kellar and some fixed costs.

I was hoping for something bigger and more physical. Although I would definitely take Keller over Dibrincat simply because of the fixed term consistent with the Sens compete window.
- spatso

It really does seem like ARI is the most natural fit for a major trade, especially involving any kind of major $$$ transfer. Keller isn't the solution for all the team's problems up front, but he definitely would be a skill upgrade - and brings another cost-controlled asset to the mix, with a contract timeframe that aligns with the likes of Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, etc. It wouldn't be hard to see Keller playing RW alongside Tkachuk-Norris, as this is could potentially be an even better skill complement that Batherson was, who could be shifted to bring size and offensive-upside to the RW of Stutzle's line.

One player flying under the UFA radar a bit is Vincent Trocheck, who I think could be a very good RW/C complement to Stutzle. He has >20G/50Pts upside, won 54% of the >1,000 faceoffs he took last year, can play both special teams, is a natural RH-shot, and plays bigger than his size (e.g. had >180 hits last year, which would have been 3rd on the Senators). Even with some anticipated decline, I don't think a multi-year contract is too much of a risk, given his strong two-way ability (i.e. could play effectively down to more of a 3rd line RW/C role, if that were required a few years down the road).

In many ways, he's kind of a younger, poor man's Giroux... and far more useful as an all-round forward than many other potential UFA options they might kick the tires on like Strome, Niederreiter, Smith, or Rackell.
- khawk

Trochek is a very consistent under the radar top 6 two way forward. He would be a great fit for this team. I'd do 6M*5 years for him, but seeing as he got paid 6.25 in the last year of his expiring deal he might look at that as a starting point.

It really does seem like ARI is the most natural fit for a major trade, especially involving any kind of major $$$ transfer. Keller isn't the solution for all the team's problems up front, but he definitely would be a skill upgrade - and brings another cost-controlled asset to the mix, with a contract timeframe that aligns with the likes of Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, etc. It wouldn't be hard to see Keller playing RW alongside Tkachuk-Norris, as this is could potentially be an even better skill complement that Batherson was, who could be shifted to bring size and offensive-upside to the RW of Stutzle's line.
- khawk

I'm fairly open to the idea of Keller. He would fill a major hole in the RW. I know some are apprehensvie about him, but I see a player who could put up points, and putting him with Stuzle could be a real recipe for success, or as you said, give Stuzle Batherson who would be a real upgrade.

What would keller cost, assuming the 7th overall was part of the package?

It really does seem like ARI is the most natural fit for a major trade, especially involving any kind of major $$$ transfer. Keller isn't the solution for all the team's problems up front, but he definitely would be a skill upgrade - and brings another cost-controlled asset to the mix, with a contract timeframe that aligns with the likes of Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, etc. It wouldn't be hard to see Keller playing RW alongside Tkachuk-Norris, as this is could potentially be an even better skill complement that Batherson was, who could be shifted to bring size and offensive-upside to the RW of Stutzle's line.
- khawk

I know I am a broken record, but this team needs more quality right hand shots besides Batherson. Powerplays with 4 left hand shots or slotting Zub as an option creates easy pickings for defenses.

While I don’t think Keller would be a terrible option, I am just wanting to see more variation amongst quality shooting guys. You are able to create more dynamic and unpredictable plays that way.

I'm fairly open to the idea of Keller. He would fill a major hole in the RW. I know some are apprehensvie about him, but I see a player who could put up points, and putting him with Stuzle could be a real recipe for success, or as you said, give Stuzle Batherson who would be a real upgrade.

What would keller cost, assuming the 7th overall was part of the package?
- david22

moving 7th+ for Keller could kill the sens for the next 5+ years, if he returns to his past production of the last 3 years, that 7.1M would hurt more than Murray or Zeitsev, essentially a 3rd line p[layer make 7M, he is just too much of a risk to trade prime assets for.

moving 7th+ for Keller could kill the sens for the next 5+ years, if he returns to his past production of the last 3 years, that 7.1M would hurt more than Murray or Zeitsev, essentially a 3rd line p
- Mithos[layer make 7M, he is just too much of a risk to trade prime assets for.

I'm not entirely pro-Keller, but this is hyperbole. In what world is Keller a 3rd line forward? He's played 5 seasons, and has put up at least a 20G/50Pts pace in 4 of those 5 seasons... of which 2 were actually >60/70pts seasons. Plus he was top-15 in the NHL among RW scorers last year in terms of PPG, right behind Batherson. And that's with very little offensive support from the Coyotes lineup. Do you really think he couldn't put up at least 50/60pts as a play-making winger skating with shoot-first players like Norris & Tkachuk? It wouldn't help Stutzle much, but I could see a very natural fit on that line, and God knows they could use a bit more pure offensive skill in the lineup.

I'm not entirely pro-Keller, but this hyperbole. In what world is Keller a 3rd line forward? He's played 5 seasons, and has put up at least a 20G/50Pts pace in 4 of those 5 seasons... of which 2 were actually >60/70pts seasons. And that's with very little offensive support from the Coyotes lineup. Do you really think he couldn't put up at least 50/60pts as a play-making winger skating with shoot-first players like Norris & Tkachuk? It wouldn't help Stutzle much, but I could see a very natural fit on that line, and God knows they could use a bit more pure offensive skill in the lineup.
- khawk

trading for a player hoping he will do more when playing with such and such player, is chiarelli level of thinking and only fools and idiots do that.

you do not trade top 10 picks and top prospects for a guys who just had a career year after 3 mediocre years making 7.1M for 6 more years hoping he will have chemistry with Stu, if he does not and stays at below 20 goals per year pace OTT is (frank)ed.

On pace for is meaningless, what maters is how many goals/points he got, Gms do not trade for on pace for.

trading for a player hoping he will do more when playing with such and such player, is chiarelli level of thinking and only fools and idiots do that.

you do not trade top 10 picks and top prospects for a guys who just had a career year after 3 mediocre years making 7.1M for 6 more years hoping he will have chemistry with Stu, if he does not and stays at below 20 goals per year pace OTT is (frank)ed.

On pace for is meaningless, what maters is how many goals/points he got, Gms do not trade for on pace for.
- Mithos

You clearly dislike Keller, but you're all over the place with your criticism. Players who score 20G/50Pts are NOT 3rd line players... especially when that's their floor in terms of production. At worst that puts you in the top-40 of scoring at your position (i.e. maybe not worth $7M, but definitely 2nd line). Plus, there isn't a GM in the world who from an offensive perspective would prefer a player who scores 40pts in 80GP vs. a player who puts up 35pts in 40GP. Think about it for 2 seconds, and you'll figure out why. But since you prefer "real" numbers, Keller would have been 3rd on the team in goals last year, and 2nd on the team in points. That's also vs. career years for all of Tkachuk, Norris, Stutzle, and Batherson. I was also quite clear that Keller would be a better fit with Norris/Tkachuk... not with Stutzle, who really needs more size/two-way ability to support him.

You clearly dislike Keller, but you're all over the place with your criticism. Players who score 20G/50Pts are NOT 3rd line players... especially when that's their floor in terms of production. At worst that puts you in the top-40 of scoring at your position (i.e. maybe not worth $7M, but definitely 2nd line). Plus, there isn't a GM in the world who from an offensive perspective would prefer a player who scores 40pts in 80GP vs. a player who puts up 35pts in 40GP. Think about it for 2 seconds, and you'll figure out why. But since you prefer "real" numbers, Keller would have been 3rd on the team in goals last year, and 2nd on the team in points. That's also vs. career years for all of Tkachuk, Norris, Stutzle, and Batherson. I was also quite clear that Keller would be a better fit with Norris/Tkachuk... not with Stutzle, who really needs more size/two-way ability to support him.
- khawk

I am clearly a size queen.

If Dubois, M. Tkachuk, Lafreniere or Evander are out of reach to the Sens. I will reluctantly agree to Keller. I would prefer Keller to Debrincat because of the need to maintain the Brady cap. However, I would insist the Sens find one more big body with good wheels that can play third line minutes. There are some good ones out there, but pricey. Too bad Nick Paul has his heart set on $4m.

I am clearly a size queen.

If Dubois, M. Tkachuk, Lafreniere or Evander are out of reach to the Sens. I will reluctantly agree to Keller. I would prefer Keller to Debrincat because of the need to maintain the Brady cap. However, I would insist the Sens find one more big body with good wheels that can play third line minutes. There are some good ones out there, but pricey. Too bad Nick Paul has his heart set on $4m.
- spatso

Apparently we are in puljarvi, perfect third liner. Big and fast and good in forecheck. Maybe Brown vs Jesse + EDM first could work

I am clearly a size queen.

If Dubois, M. Tkachuk, Lafreniere or Evander are out of reach to the Sens. I will reluctantly agree to Keller. I would prefer Keller to Debrincat because of the need to maintain the Brady cap. However, I would insist the Sens find one more big body with good wheels that can play third line minutes. There are some good ones out there, but pricey. Too bad Nick Paul has his heart set on $4m.
- spatso

I don't really care if people like Keller or not, or personally think it's the greatest idea... I'm just arguing that it's a bit excessive to claim he's not a legitimate top-6 forward. Plus, you're starting to run out of forward spots, especially for anyone making any kind of significant $$$. If you assume they buy out White and bring in a top-6 W, that gives you Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson, Stutzle, Formenton, plus the new guy... then you have Brown, Pinto, and Joseph on the 3rd line, and then Gambrell, Watson, and Kelly/Kastelic on the 4th line. Unless they trade Brown, I'm not sure where that big/fast 3rd line player is coming from... and even then it would seem like a lateral move at best.

Keller would be an immediate upgrade to the top 6 forward group.

Is he the ideal addition to this existing forward group? No. He isn't a right hand shot, he's small, and doesn't have the greatest track record on another team looking for better outcomes.

Would I trade the 7th overall pick for him? Maybe. I do think he would be a better fit than Fiala. His cap hit also isn't bad if he becomes a perennial 60 point guy. He's also only 23 and locked up long term. However, you have to be darn sure there are not any diamonds at the 7 spot. I am not sure I trust Dorion to make that choice.

There are also lots of other RFA, UFA, and contracts teams wouldn't mind losing around the NHL. I am not convinced the 7th overall pick needs to be moved to address team needs. Great teams keep those picks and acquire players more cheaply to address those needs. However, Dorion might be enticed by the sexy move to get some air time.

Apparently we are in puljarvi, perfect third liner. Big and fast and good in forecheck. Maybe Brown vs Jesse + EDM first could work
- Crosside

If the Senators want to try to groom him into a #2RW, then maybe... but if he were such a perfect 3rd liner, EDM wouldn't have cut his ice time from 16min/GP to 10min/GP in the playoffs, and never played him once on the PK all year-long. In fact, that's pretty much exactly what teams do with players they don't trust defensively or in key game situations.

Apparently we are in puljarvi, perfect third liner. Big and fast and good in forecheck. Maybe Brown vs Jesse + EDM first could work
- Crosside

Puljujarvi is deemed “a play killer” inside the Oilers dressing room, it is believed, where two of the best centremen in the world have not been enough to turn Puljujarvi into a legitimate Top 6 winger in the NHL. The puck dies on his stick in the offensive zone too often to continue to saddle Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl with such a winger on a regular basis.

From Sportsnet article

hes worth a late 2nd to 3rd round pick

I am clearly a size queen.

If Dubois, M. Tkachuk, Lafreniere or Evander are out of reach to the Sens. I will reluctantly agree to Keller. I would prefer Keller to Debrincat because of the need to maintain the Brady cap. However, I would insist the Sens find one more big body with good wheels that can play third line minutes. There are some good ones out there, but pricey. Too bad Nick Paul has his heart set on $4m.
- spatso

What is the Brady cap stuff? Not sure you can limit yourself to having guys under 9 mill a year going forward in todays NHL if you want to be successful. The Stanley Cup final had 6 players over that mark I believe. That does not include a pretty underpaid Nathan McKinnon.

While Brady isn't worth more than he is getting paid, if you want to win it all, you might have to pony up that money to a guy like Stu or Sanderson if they are in fact the real deal. Obviously, a chance they are not but that is another conversation should that happen.

Apparently we are in puljarvi, perfect third liner. Big and fast and good in forecheck. Maybe Brown vs Jesse + EDM first could work
- Crosside

Pass on Puljarvi. Redundant to the roster.

What is the Brady cap stuff? Not sure you can limit yourself to having guys under 9 mill a year going forward in todays NHL if you want to be successful. The Stanley Cup final had 6 players over that mark I believe. That does not include a pretty underpaid Nathan McKinnon.

While Brady isn't worth more than he is getting paid, if you want to win it all, you might have to pony up that money to a guy like Stu or Sanderson if they are in fact the real deal. Obviously, a chance they are not but that is another conversation should that happen.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I agree entirely on the Brady cap be nothing more than a notional barrier that the team does not want to cross. At some point there will be a player that needs a bigger pay day. Stutzel and Sanderson may be tests.

Teams that do not impose an internal cap on themselves end up signing Tavares and creating cap chaos for themselves.

I agree entirely on the Brady cap be nothing more than a notional barrier that the team does not want to cross. At some point there will be a player that needs a bigger pay day. Stutzel and Sanderson may be tests.

Teams that do not impose an internal cap on themselves end up signing Tavares and creating cap chaos for themselves.
- spatso

The problem is that when Brady was signed teams weren't sure how to go about $ with covid. At some point, someone will exceed Brady's salary, especially in 2 years when the cap increases significantly.

Pass on Puljarvi. Redundant to the roster.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Oh please, no way in hell, like you said, big time pass on him. Dont need another guy that shows up once every 5 games, we had enough of that last year with Sanford.

What is the Brady cap stuff? Not sure you can limit yourself to having guys under 9 mill a year going forward in todays NHL if you want to be successful. The Stanley Cup final had 6 players over that mark I believe. That does not include a pretty underpaid Nathan McKinnon.

While Brady isn't worth more than he is getting paid, if you want to win it all, you might have to pony up that money to a guy like Stu or Sanderson if they are in fact the real deal. Obviously, a chance they are not but that is another conversation should that happen.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Completely concur on your take, right on.

Apparently we are in puljarvi, perfect third liner. Big and fast and good in forecheck. Maybe Brown vs Jesse + EDM first could work
- Crosside

Sorry he's no reliable, why do you think he's so expandable in Edmonton? Brown led this team in minutes and played the PP and PK. No thanks on Puljarvi, he's a massive downgrade.

I agree entirely on the Brady cap be nothing more than a notional barrier that the team does not want to cross. At some point there will be a player that needs a bigger pay day. Stutzel and Sanderson may be tests.

Teams that do not impose an internal cap on themselves end up signing Tavares and creating cap chaos for themselves.
- spatso

I don't mind self imposed caps. Not sure Brady is the guy to use as a benchmark.

I'm fairly open to the idea of Keller. He would fill a major hole in the RW. I know some are apprehensvie about him, but I see a player who could put up points, and putting him with Stuzle could be a real recipe for success, or as you said, give Stuzle Batherson who would be a real upgrade.

What would keller cost, assuming the 7th overall was part of the package?
- david22

Yes, give me Kellar any day as a top 6, plus put him with some talent. Then other teams wouldn't be focussing on him so much, that is all teams did the last 2 years with him, he had the top D pairing to go against and then strength on strength, the other teams top line. He would flourish here.

Yes, give me Kellar any day as a top 6, plus put him with some talent. Then other teams wouldn't be focussing on him so much, that is all teams did the last 2 years with him, he had the top D pairing to go against and then strength on strength, the other teams top line. He would flourish here.
- LawyerSens4Life

if he needs to play against weaker opponents to be able to score than hes not a very good player then is he,

if he needs to play against weaker opponents to be able to score than hes not a very good player then is he,
- Mithos

I think that is too simple.

Nick Paul was a beast throughout the playoffs for Tampa. Most of the guys on this thread were happy for him. Most of us were not surprised by his performance. Playing third line minutes in Tampa with that defense and goaltending is a very different proposition than playing third line minutes in Ottawa.

Love Kadri. He had an awesome playoff from start to finish. But, he also benefitted by playing #2 behind MacKinnon.

Who you play against and who you play with has enormous impact in how your game is perceived.