This is why everybody gave up on Nichushkin too. Bad counting stats and has a big breakout season when finally utilized correctly and given the chance to succeed. Not saying Puljujarvi is going to have a ppg season but his defensive rates are good (unlike Zacha) so at the very worst he'll be responsible in his own end. And this is a team that has had defensive issues with forward depth.
- Pomegrant

It’s ok to like a bad player. Everyone has one, yours was pk but now it’s puljujarvi.

It’s ok to like a bad player. Everyone has one, yours was pk but now it’s puljujarvi.
- shvingter88

Except PK has been fine-to-good the last two years after his awful first year? Lol. He's gotten better every year here and this past season he was actually good. He thrived(as expected) in a 3rd pair role, even though he spent more time with the anchor Ty Smith than anybody else(posted a positive CF%, actual GF%, and xGF% with him). I'd honestly be totally fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal to fight for a spot on the 3rd pair with one of the FA depth D i mentioned above and Bahl.

Keep him off the PP and let him play 18ish minutes with 3rd pairing matchups and he's perfectly fine, especially now that he won't have that 9M cap hit.

Seems like you just set your opinion on a player and are unwilling to change it, even if said player improves and plays well. Lol.

Except PK has been fine-to-good the last two years after his awful first year? Lol. He's gotten better every year here and this past season he was actually good. He thrived(as expected) in a 3rd pair role, even though he spent more time with the anchor Ty Smith than anybody else(posted a positive CF%, actual GF%, and xGF% with him). I'd honestly be totally fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal to fight for a spot on the 3rd pair with one of the FA depth D i mentioned above and Bahl.

Keep him off the PP and let him play 18ish minutes with 3rd pairing matchups and he's perfectly fine, especially now that he won't have that 9M cap hit.

Seems like you just set your opinion on a player and are unwilling to change it, even if said player improves and plays well. Lol.
- vlongo4419

First off pk (frank)ing blows

Second off the same can be said for you

First off pk (frank)ing blows

Second off the same can be said for you
- shvingter88

Lol how so? I change my opinion on players as need be. I also actually bring stats and facts about why I feel a player is good. I'm always willing to have a conversation about these kinds of things, especially if someone has actual data to prove why they feel the way they do. You just say a player sucks with nothing to back it up.

Again, saying PK (frank)ing blows, but not saying why.(although it'd be hard to bring up anything to back it up because he was actually solid this past season. In fact, our entire defense besides Smith was fine this year). You just talk out of your ass.

Tell me why PK blows.

First off pk (frank)ing blows

Second off the same can be said for you
- shvingter88

PK out here winning trophies. Puljujarvi going to win some pointless one for us next. book it.

Except PK has been fine-to-good the last two years after his awful first year? Lol. He's gotten better every year here and this past season he was actually good. He thrived(as expected) in a 3rd pair role, even though he spent more time with the anchor Ty Smith than anybody else(posted a positive CF%, actual GF%, and xGF% with him). I'd honestly be totally fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal to fight for a spot on the 3rd pair with one of the FA depth D i mentioned above and Bahl.

Keep him off the PP and let him play 18ish minutes with 3rd pairing matchups and he's perfectly fine, especially now that he won't have that 9M cap hit.

Seems like you just set your opinion on a player and are unwilling to change it, even if said player improves and plays well. Lol.
- vlongo4419

PK wasn't "good" in any seasons here. He was decent recently, relatively so, because he got downgraded from the first year to now facing the worst players on the ice, and was lit up half as much as a result. Being that he's only getting older.. and there's not much worse you can do than start on the 3rd pairing, I'd prefer to look elsewhere. Perhaps a young player that will improve over time instead of further degrade.

PK wasn't "good" in any seasons here. He was decent recently, relatively so, because he got downgraded from the first year to now facing the worst players on the ice, and was lit up half as much as a result. Being that he's only getting older.. and there's not much worse you can do than start on the 3rd pairing, I'd prefer to look elsewhere. Perhaps a young player that will improve over time instead of further degrade.
- MartysBetter88

But he was "good" this past season. Lol. Thats the whole point here. He was attrocious in his first season, but once he got settled in he improved a bit in his 2nd year and i would put him as adequate(he was about replacement level). But this past season he was definitely good, by pretty much every metric you look at. His RAPMs are all well into the positives this past season, his ES offense and defense were both above 60% this season, and he was above 50% in all of CF%, xGF%, SCF%, and HDCF% this season. He also posted the highest actual GF% of any of our regular top 6 D.

Obviously part of that is playing on the 3rd pairing and getting advantageous matchups. THATS WHAT YOU WANT FROM A 3RD PAIRING D. Now factor in that he played over 200 more 5v5 minutes with Ty Smith than anybody else, who was and absolute anchor and by far the worst defenseman on the roster this season, and those underlyings look even more impressive. He was a well-above replacement level D this past season, thats a FACT. You can certainly do worse than PK on the 3rd pair, and im totally fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal.

Again, people keep saying PK sucks or wasnt good, yet you provide zero data to back that up.

Lol how so? I change my opinion on players as need be. I also actually bring stats and facts about why I feel a player is good. I'm always willing to have a conversation about these kinds of things, especially if someone has actual data to prove why they feel the way they do. You just say a player sucks with nothing to back it up.

Again, saying PK (frank)ing blows, but not saying why.(although it'd be hard to bring up anything to back it up because he was actually solid this past season. In fact, our entire defense besides Smith was fine this year). You just talk out of your ass.

Tell me why PK blows.
- vlongo4419

I feel like watching pk should be enough to understand why he blows.

As for puljujarvi he has 259 games played and 98 points. While getting time with mcdavid and draisitl.
Zacha has 386 games played and 179 points while playing with other turds. Why are we trading a problem for another problem? What good does that do for the team to trade for someone that needs a change of scenery from one of the greatest players of all time?

PK out here winning trophies. Puljujarvi going to win some pointless one for us next. book it.
- Pomegrant

Yeah what trophy did he win? The one for playing hockey or one for being a great person? He’s a great person off the ice for what he does to help out the community, but he’s (frank)ing god awful on ice and slew foots people.

PK wasn't "good" in any seasons here. He was decent recently, relatively so, because he got downgraded from the first year to now facing the worst players on the ice, and was lit up half as much as a result. Being that he's only getting older.. and there's not much worse you can do than start on the 3rd pairing, I'd prefer to look elsewhere. Perhaps a young player that will improve over time instead of further degrade.
- MartysBetter88

I wouldn’t even say he was good he was ok at times

I swear this team has been so bad to mediocre for so long we think players like pk are good. It’s (frank)ing embarrassing.

I feel like watching pk should be enough to understand why he blows.

As for puljujarvi he has 259 games played and 98 points. While getting time with mcdavid and draisitl.
Zacha has 386 games played and 179 points while playing with other turds. Why are we trading a problem for another problem? What good does that do for the team to trade for someone that needs a change of scenery from one of the greatest players of all time?
- shvingter88

Ah yes the good ol "eye test" argument which provides zero actual data to a point or a conversation. If thats where you're gonna go then its completely pointless to even continuing responding.

Again, you bring up points and games played without any context. Zacha averages 2 full minutes more TOI per game in his career than JP, and when you look at total icetime Zacha has played 6065 minutes versus Puljujarvis 3621. Zacha has almost DOUBLE the amount of ice time in his career., and you're using points as your argument? So now with that in mind, Zacha averages 1.473 points/60 and Puljujarvi averages 1.624 points/60. Now you factor in power play, Zacha has played 712 minutes on the PP whereas JP has only played 245 minutes on the PP. Plays into the point difference as well.

Stop. Using. Flat. Point. Totals. To. Try. To. Make. A. Point.

You go and say how hes played with McDavid and Draisatil, but ive already given the data of him with McDavid/Draisaitl, as well as all of their numbers without each other. Puljujarvi makes them better.

Puljujarvi is a better play driver than Zacha, a better forechecker than Zacha, and a much better defensive player than Zacha. The only thing Zacha has on him is shot, but we all know Zacha essentially refuses to use it, so what does it matter. JP makes everybody one the ice with him better meanwhile Zacha has dragged his linemates down time and time again prior to this past season where he was a 'fine' 3rd liner. Its called buying low on someone and hoping you hit gold. We know what Zachas ceiling is, we havent seen JPs yet and it seems like hes ready to pop.

If you cant understand that then this is all just irrelevant. You ignore data if it doesnt agree with what you think and then you provide absolutely zero information to attempt to prove your point. "Eye test" and flat point totals never tell the entire story. Start doing more research.

I swear this team has been so bad to mediocre for so long we think players like pk are good. It’s (frank)ing embarrassing.
- shvingter88

Says the guy who has absolutely no idea what the (frank) hes talking about. Absolutely laughable tbh.

Yeah what trophy did he win? The one for playing hockey or one for being a great person? He’s a great person off the ice for what he does to help out the community, but he’s (frank)ing god awful on ice and slew foots people.
- shvingter88

At this point in my life I enjoy a solid feel good story. And this team has been poop for so long that it definitely doesn't make me feel good.

Ah yes the good ol "eye test" argument which provides zero actual data to a point or a conversation. If thats where you're gonna go then its completely pointless to even continuing responding.

Again, you bring up points and games played without any context. Zacha averages 2 full minutes more TOI per game in his career than JP, and when you look at total icetime Zacha has played 6065 minutes versus Puljujarvis 3621. Zacha has almost DOUBLE the amount of ice time in his career., and you're using points as your argument? So now with that in mind, Zacha averages 1.473 points/60 and Puljujarvi averages 1.624 points/60. Now you factor in power play, Zacha has played 712 minutes on the PP whereas JP has only played 245 minutes on the PP. Plays into the point difference as well.

Stop. Using. Flat. Point. Totals. To. Try. To. Make. A. Point.

You go and say how hes played with McDavid and Draisatil, but ive already given the data of him with McDavid/Draisaitl, as well as all of their numbers without each other. Puljujarvi makes them better.

Puljujarvi is a better play driver than Zacha, a better forechecker than Zacha, and a much better defensive player than Zacha. The only thing Zacha has on him is shot, but we all know Zacha essentially refuses to use it, so what does it matter. JP makes everybody one the ice with him better meanwhile Zacha has dragged his linemates down time and time again prior to this past season where he was a 'fine' 3rd liner. Its called buying low on someone and hoping you hit gold. We know what Zachas ceiling is, we havent seen JPs yet and it seems like hes ready to pop.

If you cant understand that then this is all just irrelevant. You ignore data if it doesnt agree with what you think and then you provide absolutely zero information to attempt to prove your point. "Eye test" and flat point totals never tell the entire story. Start doing more research.
- vlongo4419

Yeah the eye test which is the first start of evaluating a player. If he’s so good why are they letting him walk this off-season?

This team needs actual talent not the hopes that if this player gets more ice time they’ll produce with worse players.

Says the guy who has absolutely no idea what the (frank) hes talking about. Absolutely laughable tbh.
- vlongo4419

You have no idea what you’re talking about

At this point in my life I enjoy a solid feel good story. And this team has been poop for so long that it definitely doesn't make me feel good.
- Pomegrant

Pk is the Bergeron of the king Clancy

Yeah the eye test which is the first start of evaluating a player. If he’s so good why are they letting him walk this off-season?

This team needs actual talent not the hopes that if this player gets more ice time they’ll produce with worse players.
- shvingter88

The eye test is what people to go when they know they cant win a disagreement because they have zero data to back up their information.

Who said theyre letting him walk? If he leaves its because A) They believe in a young guy like Bahl to earn a full time spot and dont want to block him, and B) In addition to that, they sign someone in FA who is better than him for the 3rd pair. Theres mutual interest in him coming back, but the contract needs to align, and it depends on who else out there is interested in coming here as well what other offers he gets from around the league.

You're absolutely right, this team needs actual talent, and JP would be the 3rd best winger on this team. Not even mentioning that he brings a style(forechecking/puck protection) up front that we dont have, along with the skill. Theres a reason a ton of people out there in the hockey world are talking about how Edmonton absolutely NEEDS to find a way to keep him, and how it would be a big mistake to let him go.

The eye test is what people to go when they know they cant win a disagreement because they have zero data to back up their information.

Who said theyre letting him walk? If he leaves its because A) They believe in a young guy like Bahl to earn a full time spot and dont want to block him, and B) In addition to that, they sign someone in FA who is better than him for the 3rd pair. Theres mutual interest in him coming back, but the contract needs to align, and it depends on who else out there is interested in coming here as well what other offers he gets from around the league.

You're absolutely right, this team needs actual talent, and JP would be the 3rd best winger on this team. Not even mentioning that he brings a style(forechecking/puck protection) up front that we dont have, along with the skill. Theres a reason a ton of people out there in the hockey world are talking about how Edmonton absolutely NEEDS to find a way to keep him, and how it would be a big mistake to let him go.
- vlongo4419

Fitzgerald said they’re not extending him, he said that back in February or March. You must be to busy combing the stats.

Fitzgerald said they’re not extending him, he said that back in February or March. You must be to busy combing the stats.
- shvingter88

That's not what he said, actually. He said "Very transparent with PK, right shot dmen dont grow on trees. With PK, I said its not a matter for today. I want to continue to help grow our team. Do we have internal options? Possibly... but its an open-ended conversation." That was literally last month.

So again, exactly what i said above(depends on contract alignment/if they think any of the kids are ready/who they can get in FA). Doing literally any fact-checking or research isn't a strong suit for you, I guess? Took a simple google and twitter search to find his quote on PK.

He never said they werent going to bring him back. And guess what, things change. Funny how that works, huh? So yes, it's possible PK is brought back.

That's not what he said, actually. He said "Very transparent with PK, right shot dmen dont grow on trees. With PK, I said its not a matter for today. I want to continue to help grow our team. Do we have internal options? Possibly... but its an open-ended conversation." That was literally last month.

So again, exactly what i said above(depends on contract alignment/if they think any of the kids are ready/who they can get in FA). Doing literally any fact-checking or research isn't a strong suit for you, I guess? Took a simple google and twitter search to find his quote on PK.

He never said they werent going to bring him back. And guess what, things change. Funny how that works, huh? So yes, it's possible PK is brought back.
- vlongo4419

Having a life makes it difficult to keep up with every aspect of this team. Clearly you don’t have one because you just love being a douche bag on the internet. All I’ve done is say x player blows and you constantly attack me. You’re a fucking loser and if that quote you found is true then looks like we’re in for another top 5 pick. Get a life stat man.

Having a life makes it difficult to keep up with every aspect of this team. Clearly you don’t have one because you just love being a douche bag on the internet. All I’ve done is say x player blows and you constantly attack me. You’re a fucking loser and if that quote you found is true then looks like we’re in for another top 5 pick. Get a life stat man.
- shvingter88

Yep that makes sense, turn to insults when you get called out for yet again being misinformed and flat out wrong. You should probably stay off the internet if you're that thin skinned that you cant take getting called out for being an idiot. Sad, actually.

If you have nothing useful or intelligent to being to a conversation then you should probably just stay out of it.

Yep that makes sense, turn to insults when you get called out for yet again being misinformed and flat out wrong. You should probably stay off the internet if you're that thin skinned that you cant take getting called out for being an idiot. Sad, actually.

If you have nothing useful or intelligent to being to a conversation then you should probably just stay out of it.
- vlongo4419

You’re fucking retarded dude you’ve been insulting me this whole time. Were you dropped as a baby?

God we’ve had our fair share of moron fans on this site before but we’re reaching new levels.

You’re fucking retarded dude you’ve been insulting me this whole time. Were you dropped as a baby?
- shvingter88

I've insulted you because you literally REFUSE to provide any type of information or data to back up either point you are trying to argue, and you keep going. You insulted me because i proved you wrong. Youre actually (frank)ing braindead, holy poop.

I get it, you want to fake being a hockey fan. I'll call you out on it every single time. Keep being an idiot and ill make sure to correct you.