He is high end talent, not doubt, which the Flyers desperately need. However he is also 30 years old so the question is, do you want the Flyers to commit a significant amount of cap space on an aging sniper? I would prefer they get younger and try to develop their version of Tarasenko.
- jd250

The ship has sailed on Tarasenko. His value has gone up and he most likely won't be available until next years deadline if he and the Blues don't come to terms on a contract.

The original conversation was about the Flyers not being in on certain guys (last year being Tarasenko and Buchnevich) and lamenting the fact that they need high-end talent. I'll say it again, I would've given up any combination of the assets traded away last offseason for both of those players. Too little, too late at this point.

You still believe that Ristolainen had something to do with Sanheim's positive play. Not sure how much information you actually need to come to the correct conclusion.
- MJL

I do believe Risto had something to do with, and so do a lot of hockey people including some local NHL scouts I spoke with recently. But we are going disagree about this so no need to rehash it.

The reason why Fletcher took a chance on Ellis was not because Provorov is not a #1. It is mostly because Fletcher was desperate and the Flyers needed a top pairing RH defenseman. This would've been the case even if Provorov was playing at a #1 level.
- MJL

Well he did try to let it roll with the younger defense after niskanen retired and we saw how that went. So he tried to fix that. Is that desperate? They traded a player who wanted out of Philly and a defenseman who has now been waived and not a single team claimed.

Yes Ellis got hurt. But for what they gave up where were they going to get a top pairing right handed defensman. Ellis is not some slug when healthy.

The Flyers view him that way tho.

And I agree that they shouldn't throw him away for nothing or anything like that.

But like w/ Phaneuf and the Leafs, at some point there needs to be some exit strategy from Provorov-dependency. They gotta find their Morgan Reilly so they can start reducing Provy's role to something more appropriate to his abilities. Eventually trade him out when the timing's right.

He's not THE problem, but Provorov-dependency is part of the problem. No moving forward until that's addressed, IMO.
- Tomahawk

That's not on Provorov. That's on the Flyers. The strategy is to surround Provorov with a better defense and overall team structure. Maybe then his own subpar play will improve. I agree that Provorov has to be appropriately used. It's more about an explanation of why Provorov has regressed as a player. I personally don't believe it's all on him.

You're absolutely right .. Thanks Ron!
- jd250

This is an asinine reply.

Thanks! I always look forward to your posts, even if I sometimes don't agree with them. You are one of the more knowledgeable posters on this forum and I appreciate it.
- jd250

/blush

The ship has sailed on Tarasenko. His value has gone up and he most likely won't be available until next years deadline if he and the Blues don't come to terms on a contract.

The original conversation was about the Flyers not being in on certain guys (last year being Tarasenko and Buchnevich) and lamenting the fact that they need high-end talent. I'll say it again, I would've given up any combination of the assets traded away last offseason for both of those players. Too little, too late at this point.
- TobyFlenderson

I agree that in hindsight getting both of these players might have been better, though who really knows how these two players would have meshed with the Flyers. I think at the time many of us commented on what a good move it was for St. Louis to get Buchnevich, and I do believe there were at least rumors that the Flyers were in on Tarasenko so they many have actually tried to obtain him last off season.

It comes down to whether you believe you eyes or a subset of advanced metrics.
- jd250

Both say the same thing.

This is an asinine reply.
- MJL

I know, I just know how to get under your skin.

I do believe Risto had something to do with, and so do a lot of hockey people including some local NHL scouts I spoke with recently. But we are going disagree about this so no need to rehash it.
- jd250

This is absolutely hysterical. You aren't fooling anyone.

I know, I just know how to get under your skin.
- jd250

You're mistaken that it gets under my skin. It just makes me feel more sorry for you.

Well he did try to let it roll with the younger defense after niskanen retired and we saw how that went. So he tried to fix that. Is that desperate? They traded a player who wanted out of Philly and a defenseman who has now been waived and not a single team claimed.

Yes Ellis got hurt. But for what they gave up where were they going to get a top pairing right handed defensman. Ellis is not some slug when healthy.
- J35Bacher

Yes it was desperate. This is not an environment where trying scores any points.

It was completely predictable that Ellis would get hurt.

Ah, defensemen are a different breed. You can have a defenseman that plays at a high level well into their 30s, if they are a healthy of course.
- jd250

so the risk is to great for tarasenko but not ellis. Got it

This is an asinine reply.
- MJL

Your boy failed. Have you accepted that yet?

Yes it was desperate. This is not an environment where trying scores any points.

It was completely predictable that Ellis would get hurt.
- MJL

So the Montreal Canadiens TRYING St. Louis as head coach wasn't a benefit? Did it seem to unlock Caufield? Did the Canadiens look better?

so the risk is to great for tarasenko but not ellis. Got it
- hello it's me 2050

When Ellis was obtained by Fletcher, he did not have the hip/groin/core injury that he unfortunately got this season. Otherwise the risk would have been too great for his cap hit and I would hope Fletcher would not have pursued the trade. I am saying in general, good defenseman in the NHL have a longer shelf-life than snipers, unless of course your sniper is named Ovechkin.

Yes it was desperate. This is not an environment where trying scores any points.

It was completely predictable that Ellis would get hurt.
- MJL

Now that is comical

You're mistaken that it gets under my skin. It just makes me feel more sorry for you.
- MJL

Man .. you have got to get a sense of humor ... always so serious.

So the Montreal Canadiens TRYING St. Louis as head coach wasn't a benefit? Did it seem to unlock Caufield? Did the Canadiens look better?
- J35Bacher

Is the St' Louis coaching hire on an interim basis successful because he did a good job or because they tried to do a good job? Doesn't seem as though you got the point.
The point is that there is no credit for trying. Only for doing.

When Ellis was obtained by Fletcher, he did not have the hip/groin/core injury that he unfortunately got this season. Otherwise the risk would have been too great for his cap hit and I would hope Fletcher would not have pursued the trade. I am saying in general, good defenseman in the NHL have a longer shelf-life than snipers, unless of course your sniper is named Ovechkin.
- jd250

Ellis had an injury history and missed a lot of games.

Now that is comical
- jd250

You didn't get it when I explained it to you when the deal was made. Wouldn't expect you to get it now. Even with all the facts plainly in sight.

Man .. you have got to get a sense of humor ... always so serious.
- jd250

That's not serious at all. I have a very good sense of humor. I laugh when I read the majority of your posts.

What does Torts have to do with Trotz? I love Trotz and I do believe he is a good choice for the Flyers, because unlike Torts, Trotz has proven he can stick with a team and grow with a young core of players. He has done it in the past. Torts has demonstrated the opposite IMO.

So I know you continually try to be a forum clown and try to throw words against me and others, and its sad because you seem like a smart guy. I wish you would spend your energy contributing to the discussion instead of just trying to zing people all the time.
- jd250

He contributes. But he also "zings" people when they deserve it. Especially when they constantly have terrible takes, like you and yours.

I believe my eyes and advanced stats.

I don't particularly trust your eyes tho lol
- Tomahawk

Neither would Stevie Wonder