If those were his numbers in these playoffs, we’re playing Florida right now. Maybe he returns to early season Jack, the guy we all thought we’d be paying $5 or 6M. But Leafs mgt doesn’t think so or they wouldn’t have offered $2.75 or whatever it was.
- Canada Cup

Ya man - I remember I questioned him before season for you guys then he played lights out and I thought I was completely wrong. Unfortunately for you guys that only lasted for like 25 or so games. Give or take. It was gone (that magic) about 2 weeks before All Star Game.

My issue is that he has never shown to be anything more than a backup and he’s been in the league for like 11 or 12 years. If you take away this season (his first as a starter) he played like 90 games TOTAL. Over 11 or 12 years.

Nicest guy in sports and he’s literally a guy o was pulling for more than anyone else in the league - but it is what it is.

He has only really been in the league for 4 years. First 3 years he was a call up for a game or 2.
130 games in those 4 years. Still not a starter until last year though.

I'm perplexed at all the goalie talk... this is an offseason non-issue. Campbell is the guy and they'll have enough space to comfortably sign him. As for the other (way more important moves):

- UFAs worth resigning at the right term/$ = Gio, Boosh, Blackwell. The rest, take a walk
- Minor trades = Holl & Kerfoot
- Walk away from Engvall, Kase
- Big trade = Nylander for Chychurn/Parayko/[insert young D stud]
- Use leftover cap from subtractions to sign 360 hockey player to play with Tavares (Rust, Copp, Trocheck, Perron, Palat would all be prime fits)
- Fill the rest with Marlies ELC / league minimum second chances

Ya man - I remember I questioned him before season for you guys then he played lights out and I thought I was completely wrong. Unfortunately for you guys that only lasted for like 25 or so games. Give or take. It was gone (that magic) about 2 weeks before All Star Game.

My issue is that he has never shown to be anything more than a backup and he’s been in the league for like 11 or 12 years. If you take away this season (his first as a starter) he played like 90 games TOTAL. Over 11 or 12 years.

Nicest guy in sports and he’s literally a guy o was pulling for more than anyone else in the league - but it is what it is.
- Big23Questions

Soup stat line since his time with the Leafs below. His numbers as a starter this year are pretty much the same when he was a backup. How exactly are you justifying that he's not starter material? I can give you plenty of "starters" that don't have these numbers. Is he a franchise level goalie? No. But you don't need that to win a cup.

2020 - .915
2021 - .921
2022 - .914

Soup stat line since his time with the Leafs below. His numbers as a starter this year are pretty much the same when he was a backup. How exactly are you justifying that he's not starter material? I can give you plenty of "starters" that don't have these numbers. Is he a franchise level goalie? No. But you don't need that to win a cup.

2020 - .915
2021 - .921
2022 - .914
- BlackSwan

Sounds about right.

Now show us the cap math on your quick fix.

Soup stat line since his time with the Leafs below. His numbers as a starter this year are pretty much the same when he was a backup. How exactly are you justifying that he's not starter material? I can give you plenty of "starters" that don't have these numbers. Is he a franchise level goalie? No. But you don't need that to win a cup.

2020 - .915
2021 - .921
2022 - .914
- BlackSwan

2019/2020 - he only played 6 (SIX) games
2020/2021 - he only played 22 games
2021/2022 (this year) - first season since being drafted (in 2010!!!) playing a starters amount of games.

I’m not typically one to make outrageous claims - like I invented the question mark or that chestnuts are lazy - but I am all but absolutely positive that Jack Campbell is NOT good enough to win a Cup with unless you deploy Team Canadas defence in front of him.

2019/2020 - he only played 6 (SIX) games
2020/2021 - he only played 22 games
2021/2022 (this year) - first season since being drafted (in 2010!!!) playing a starters amount of games.

I’m not typically one to make outrageous claims - like I invented the question mark or that chestnuts are lazy - but I am all but absolutely positive that Jack Campbell is NOT good enough to win a Cup with unless you deploy Team Canadas defence in front of him.
- Big23Questions

The problem is that whether you're right or wrong, you can say the exact same thing about every supposed alternate option out there, 90% of which you have to give up quality assets to get.

2019/2020 - he only played 6 (SIX) games
2020/2021 - he only played 22 games
2021/2022 (this year) - first season since being drafted (in 2010!!!) playing a starters amount of games.

I’m not typically one to make outrageous claims - like I invented the question mark or that chestnuts are lazy - but I am all but absolutely positive that Jack Campbell is NOT good enough to win a Cup with unless you deploy Team Canadas defence in front of him.
- Big23Questions

I know Toni and yup, lazy (frank)er

The problem is that whether you're right or wrong, you can say the exact same thing about every supposed alternate option out there, 90% of which you have to give up quality assets to get.
- joel878

Ya I hear what you’re saying but it’s just a personal opinion that a weak minded goalie who struggled mightily trying to get through a full season as a starter is probably not going to cut it. Maybe only the guys folks on hockeybuzz are the only goalies that are available or maybe not. Maybe there are other viable options. My point is even if it’s someone like a couple I mentioned a while back - they are just more solid man. Campbell is so spastic and sporadic not to mention seems so scared and timid on and off the ice. He’s the definition of goalie that looks nervous in the net. Even a tender that played the same amount of game in nhl with exact same numbers in the same amount of time - in my mind is a better option. He’s just flaky to me that’s all.

Tampa scores with 2 sec to go.

Florida ain't winning this.

Ya I hear what you’re saying but it’s just a personal opinion that a weak minded goalie who struggled mightily trying to get through a full season as a starter is probably not going to cut it. Maybe only the guys folks on hockeybuzz are the only goalies that are available or maybe not. Maybe there are other viable options. My point is even if it’s someone like a couple I mentioned a while back - they are just more solid man. Campbell is so spastic and sporadic not to mention seems so scared and timid on and off the ice. He’s the definition of goalie that looks nervous in the net. Even a tender that played the same amount of game in nhl with exact same numbers in the same amount of time - in my mind is a better option. He’s just flaky to me that’s all.
- Big23Questions

.... are you sure you're not thinking of Mrazek?! A lot of those qualities you listed I don't see in Campbell at all, but you just described Mrazek on the mark.

.... are you sure you're not thinking of Mrazek?! A lot of those qualities you listed I don't see in Campbell at all, but you just described Mrazek on the mark.
- joel878

Haha - oh ya man Mrazek looses his net is definitely a spaz. But no. My opinion is (I never played net though) he looks small, nervous, overplay shots, bad rebounds, slow reactions, and definitely over commits and can never seem to get back across when needed.
Again, just my opinion. I typically don’t go out and listen to folks to build my arguments but there has been a lot talk from ex tenders that Campbell is great candidate for a 1a 1b scene but is definitely not a stand alone starter. He just isn’t. The issue I suppose with that is whether his price is virtually the same as this contract and if they could someone better that Mrazek!

Tampa scores with 2 sec to go.

Florida ain't winning this.
- Scabeh

Maybe the Leafs weren't so bad after all.

Maybe the Leafs weren't so bad after all.
- Leafsmart

No, only knee-jerk takes please and thank you.

Trade the core, now.

Haha - oh ya man Mrazek looses his net is definitely a spaz. But no. My opinion is (I never played net though) he looks small, nervous, overplay shots, bad rebounds, slow reactions, and definitely over commits and can never seem to get back across when needed.
Again, just my opinion. I typically don’t go out and listen to folks to build my arguments but there has been a lot talk from ex tenders that Campbell is great candidate for a 1a 1b scene but is definitely not a stand alone starter. He just isn’t. The issue I suppose with that is whether his price is virtually the same as this contract and if they could someone better that Mrazek!
- Big23Questions

Yeah was going to ask: do you think Mrazek is hopeless as a 1B? What about a straight-up backup playing like 20-25 games?

From last blog, but something I think you keep overlooking:




So, Tampa drafts Stamkos in 2008, and Hedman in 2009. They miss the playoffs in both 2009 and 2010 before reaching the Conference finals in 2011. The do miss the playoffs in each of 2012 and 2013, by the way, and lose in the first round the next year. So perhaps 2011 was an anomally. I mean what was different then?

They drew the Penguins in the first round. The Penguins without BOTH Malkin and Crosby. I mean, ouch.

They did follow that up by crushing the Capitals, but in 2011 crushing the Capitals in the playoffs was just what teams did - it was Pittsburgh's pastime. I mean, they had Neuvirth in net instead of either Holtby or Varlamov, but, I don't know. A 4-0 sweep still deserves props so there is that.

I would more say that similarly - Tampa spent a fair bit of time on the down side of success before they found their high - and they had an easier path to success than any team competing in the Atlantic does today.
- Monkeypunk

The point is they showed some success. CONF Finals is a LOT better than anything the Leafs have shown, and a good reason why they didn't blow things up.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting the Leafs blow it up either. But trying to say the those are comparable is silly IMO. By 2011-2012 MSL was starting to decline, Lecavalier was a shadow. Their 3rd best scorer was Teddy-freakin-Purcell.

Tampa scores with 2 sec to go.

Florida ain't winning this.
- Scabeh

It's a deep hole leaving home-ice down 0-2...

The point is they showed some success. CONF Finals is a LOT better than anything the Leafs have shown, and a good reason why they didn't blow things up.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting the Leafs blow it up either. But trying to say the those are comparable is silly IMO. By 2011-2012 MSL was starting to decline, Lecavalier was a shadow. Their 3rd best scorer was Teddy-freakin-Purcell.
- Nasty_Duck

Purcell had one of those bizarrely successful and unexpected playoffs - like a Fernando Pisani. Lecavalier and St. Louis both put up "last kick at the can" numbers, too. I don't know. My point is that rebuilds take a lot more time than people think. Success is never that quick. Tampa's move from drafting Stamkos #1 to a consistently successful team took 10 years. We hold them as the model because of who they are now, but not in the light of who they were then.

Sounds about right.

Now show us the cap math on your quick fix.
- jribout

Easy. Either trade or buyout Mrazak...give Soup the lion share of that relief...

You'd also have cap relief by trading Holl's $2MM, or Kerfoot's $3.5MM...

It's actually quite simple. The more complicated part is trading a big piece for the real gaps that exist on this team.

EDIT: they'll have ~$19MM when you combine their UFAs, RFAs and Holl + Kerfoot. I'd give Campbell $4.5MM of that (term will be where the real negotiation is), $4.5-5MM for someone to play with JT, and the rest to fill out with ELCs. They'd also find ~$3-4MM in relief by trading Nylander for Chychurn. That's the big deal they should go after this summer.

2019/2020 - he only played 6 (SIX) games
2020/2021 - he only played 22 games
2021/2022 (this year) - first season since being drafted (in 2010!!!) playing a starters amount of games.

I’m not typically one to make outrageous claims - like I invented the question mark or that chestnuts are lazy - but I am all but absolutely positive that Jack Campbell is NOT good enough to win a Cup with unless you deploy Team Canadas defence in front of him.
- Big23Questions

Games played is my point... normally guys that aren't true starters have material drop offs in their stats when they get more workload. That didn't happen for Campbell this year. There's zero evidence to suggest he's not good enough to be a starter. You can't use his mid year lull as your ratoinale as he was coming off an injury. And using the "he's been around for 11 years" isn't a viable argument either. Tim Thomas was a nobody forever and then won a stanley cup for the B's at the age of 36/37? Some guys just mature later in their careers, not everyone is built as a bonafide superstar on day 1.

Games played is my point... normally guys that aren't true starters have material drop offs in their stats when they get more workload. That didn't happen for Campbell this year. There's zero evidence to suggest he's not good enough to be a starter. You can't use his mid year lull as your ratoinale as he was coming off an injury. And using the "he's been around for 11 years" isn't a viable argument either. Tim Thomas was a nobody forever and then won a stanley cup for the B's at the age of 36/37? Some guys just mature later in their careers, not everyone is built as a bonafide superstar on day 1.
- BlackSwan

Alright man all good. I get it - you love you some soupy. He’s a super good man so I understand. But the final thing I’ll say on this…

- Tim Thomas? Catching lightning in a bottle is not a solid thought process or gamble.

- 11 years means he’s never showed any team around the league (to trade for him) or the team he’s on and all their scouts and goalie coaches that he is capable of being a stand-alone starter. He is at the very best a 1b. That is an incredibly viable argument. Say8mg that let’s wait until he’s 36/37 and been a back up for 17 years before expect8mg him to take the crease as a starter is viable? Yikes.

- mid season lull?. Jesus man it was from 2 weeks until the end of season and a few playoff games! During the regular season unravelling (not ‘lull) he was letting in 4-6 goals each game for god sakes and a lot of the time in under 30 shots. Now I agree he’s not that bad at all. But he’s not October November Campbell either. He is somewhere in between which is a 1a 1b tandem goalie.

- you don’t think there was a drop off in his play and numbers from just before all star to end of year vs first couple month? That’s crazy man. I like you, but you’re crazy.

Leafs will absolutely never win a Cup with him if they try to utilize him as a stand-alone starter. No chance. He’s a splits guy… and I’m not sure Mrazek will cut it as his splitter

Latest Styles news:
https://www.iihf.com/en/e...055/nylander_joins_sweden

Why is there such passive acceptance regarding the probable loss Mikheyev? He is a very good player.

$10,393,333 would be the cap hit for each of the next 3 years if the Leafs were to buy out the John Tavares contract. Clearly that is not a workable option.

Moving Tavares' "no move" contract is complicated. First, he would need to agree to the move. Second, if he were to retire at any time over the next three years does the cap hit come back against the Leafs as a recapture penalty. After three years the cap would be under $350,000 for another three years and that should not pose a serious financial threat for the Leafs.

I understand there is almost universal acceptance that it is impossible to move the Tavares contract. But, is it entirely impossible to consider?

I think the Leafs can retain up to 50% of the actual salary and cap hit in any deal. Would John Tavares for under $6m over the next three years not be appealing to several rebuilding teams looking to provide leadership for their young talent?

For example, lots of media speculation in Ottawa that the Sens will be trying to sign 34 year old UFA Claude Giroux. I assume the deal would be in the $5 to $6m range. Lots of other teams will be interested in Giroux. Can only assume that any team interested in Giroux at $6m would stand in line to acquire a 31 year Tavares for the same or less money.

$10,393,333 would be the cap hit for each of the next 3 years if the Leafs were to buy out the John Tavares contract. Clearly that is not a workable option.

Moving Tavares' "no move" contract is complicated. First, he would need to agree to the move. Second, if he were to retire at any time over the next three years does the cap hit come back against the Leafs as a recapture penalty. After three years the cap would be under $350,000 for another three years and that should not pose a serious financial threat for the Leafs.

I understand there is almost universal acceptance that it is impossible to move the Tavares contract. But, is it entirely impossible to consider?

I think the Leafs can retain up to 50% of the actual salary and cap hit in any deal. Would John Tavares for under $6m over the next three years not be appealing to several rebuilding teams looking to provide leadership for their young talent?

For example, lots of media speculation in Ottawa that the Sens will be trying to sign 34 year old UFA Claude Giroux. I assume the deal would be in the $5 to $6m range. Lots of other teams will be interested in Giroux. Can only assume that any team interested in Giroux at $6m would stand in line to acquire a 31 year Tavares for the same or less money.
- spatso

No, nobody is considering trading Tavares and buying him out is an even more absurd idea.