0-5 in first round playoff series and bring back the same core and keep Dubas, so say the fans.

How many first round playoff failures will it take to convince these fans
- Mr_Smokey

first round loses that don't feel like losses?

HUSSO
🤫

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LBiqtz1iSWQ
- mr.sir

https://www.youtube.com/w...gAdzE&ab_channel=BeckVEVO

That wouldn’t happen.

But something has to change. This group had many kicks at the cat.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

When did it become a cat?

Leafs without Matthews
30-15-2

Leafs without Marner
11-12-4
- Woderwick

Those stats are not a good indicator. There are a ton of variables that you need to take into account not just the wins/loss.

Marner has HUGE value. He would fetch the most return that would drastically improve the lineup up and down. Just Marner going the other way would get at least 3 pieces needed for the Leafs. He would be the best player on the trade no doubt but as Team the Leafs would be able to improve significantly.

I think ultimately, one of JT Nylander Marner need to be shipped out to get back.

Marner is 100% the best player on that list - but that’s why he helps the return the most. Bit to mention he has a very large price tag attached also. I would argue to much but that’s a different discussion.

Leafs would miss him on the PK but it wouldn’t devastate their PK. Who knows who they get back and can that goalie dman or forward also impact their pk positively.

Second impact is Matthews. He certainly helps Matthews score. But Matthews scored under Babs without Marner. I get 60 was crazy. But Matthews scoring 50 and having a better all around lineup is definitely a better result than a 60 goal season and not moving the needle enough to take next step as a team.

You have a good point about the money being paid to the core. With the flat cap that really is a problem. Imo Tavares is here for the duration, same for Matthews of course, Willy is on a good contract for what he brings.

The one deal that bugs me is Marner’s, as good as he is. I think if you trade him you get a couple of players who could change the narrative.
- shack67

Yup, moving out a 100pt player and one of our better playoff performers would definitely change the narrative.

Probably for the worse imo.

Those stats are not a good indicator. There are a ton of variables that you need to take into account not just the wins/loss.

Marner has HUGE value. He would fetch the most return that would drastically improve the lineup up and down. Just Marner going the other way would get at least 3 pieces needed for the Leafs. He would be the best player on the trade no doubt but as Team the Leafs would be able to improve significantly.

I think ultimately, one of JT Nylander Marner need to be shipped out to get back.

Marner is 100% the best player on that list - but that’s why he helps the return the most. Bit to mention he has a very large price tag attached also. I would argue to much but that’s a different discussion.

Leafs would miss him on the PK but it wouldn’t devastate their PK. Who knows who they get back and can that goalie dman or forward also impact their pk positively.

Second impact is Matthews. He certainly helps Matthews score. But Matthews scored under Babs without Marner. I get 60 was crazy. But Matthews scoring 50 and having a better all around lineup is definitely a better result than a 60 goal season and not moving the needle enough to take next step as a team.
- Big23Questions

Here Here, we're used to people talking sense in here but Usually it's nonsense.

Change or cease to exist.

The only reason they haven’t fired Shanny, Dubas, and Keefe is to preserve their reputations, and it would be an admission of failure.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are now the most embarrassing sports franchise on the planet, hands down.

The incompetency of this organization is staggering.

Think about this. MLSE hires a President with zero experience, who then hires a GM with zero experience, who then hires a coach with zero experience.

It’s actually incredible.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I can think of many more but right off the bat: the NY Jets, Baltimore Orioles, and Buffalo Sabres, Arizona Coyotes.

Leafs without Matthews
30-15-2

Leafs without Marner
11-12-4
- Woderwick

Bump.

Yup, moving out a 100pt player and one of our better playoff performers would definitely change the narrative.

Probably for the worse imo.
- Fakepartofme

Hmmm, Marner and one of our better play off performers in the same sentence. And I didn't realize what the Leafs get back will get zero points and have no intangibles.

Sorry I thought I was talking to one of your alts that you use when you keep getting banned.
- Santo_44

Bud you’re literally poking the beast. And chirping Dozzer…that’s asking for a response man.

I can think of many more but right off the bat: the NY Jets, Baltimore Orioles, and Buffalo Sabres, Arizona Coyotes.
- Big23Questions

All pretty underwhelming franchises.

But it’s the Leafs imo, just based on the history, the prestige, the expectations. None of those other teams have any good players.

I can think of many more but right off the bat: the NY Jets, Baltimore Orioles, and Buffalo Sabres, Arizona Coyotes.
- Big23Questions

You forgot the cleveland browns!

Bud you’re literally poking the beast. And chirping Dozzer…that’s asking for a response man.
- Big23Questions

Huh??

AA uses alts. Don't know how you think Dozzer has anything to do with AA's poor decision to make alts when he gets banned.

Hmmm, Marner and one of our better play off performers in the same sentence. And I didn't realize what the Leafs get back will get zero points and have no intangibles.
- bobbyisno1

Then you should have watch the leafs first round against tampa.
They had some good games

You forgot the cleveland browns!
- Aaron_85

Haha indeed man! Like I said there are tons of teams.
Just in the NHL there are so many teams that even won a single Cup. Who cares almost and would’ve should’ve could’ve. You win or you don’t. I don’t care how many Conference finals were made personally. It’s Cups. That’s what matters…this isn’t horseshoes or hand grenades

Those stats are not a good indicator. There are a ton of variables that you need to take into account not just the wins/loss.

Marner has HUGE value. He would fetch the most return that would drastically improve the lineup up and down. Just Marner going the other way would get at least 3 pieces needed for the Leafs. He would be the best player on the trade no doubt but as Team the Leafs would be able to improve significantly.

I think ultimately, one of JT Nylander Marner need to be shipped out to get back.

Marner is 100% the best player on that list - but that’s why he helps the return the most. Bit to mention he has a very large price tag attached also. I would argue to much but that’s a different discussion.

Leafs would miss him on the PK but it wouldn’t devastate their PK. Who knows who they get back and can that goalie dman or forward also impact their pk positively.

Second impact is Matthews. He certainly helps Matthews score. But Matthews scored under Babs without Marner. I get 60 was crazy. But Matthews scoring 50 and having a better all around lineup is definitely a better result than a 60 goal season and not moving the needle enough to take next step as a team.
- Big23Questions

It would be insane to trade Marner unless the return was as equally insane.

Huh??

AA uses alts. Don't know how you think Dozzer has anything to do with AA's poor decision to make alts when he gets banned.
- Santo_44

Oh my bad for assuming. You’ve just chirped refs here in past so I must’ve thought you were chirping as well. I guess I misread and misunderstood. My bad man.
But ya I’d stop provoking these responses all the same.

I will say this once. Santo / AA & anyone else who needs to hear it - anyone who calls other posters names etc will get a ban. I’m tired of this crap to be honest so just stop.

Stop insisting, stop the name calling and just being insulting and rude to anyone. Who has a different opinion than you, scroll past and don’t respond.

Oh my bad for assuming. You’ve just chirped refs here in past so I must’ve thought you were chirping as well. I guess I misread and misunderstood. My bad man.
But ya I’d stop provoking these responses all the same.
- Big23Questions

what the (frank) are you talking about? Go away please

Haha indeed man! Like I said there are tons of teams.
Just in the NHL there are so many teams that even won a single Cup. Who cares almost and would’ve should’ve could’ve. You win or you don’t. I don’t care how many Conference finals were made personally. It’s Cups. That’s what matters…this isn’t horseshoes or hand grenades
- Big23Questions

Yeah it's a tough pill to swallow with another loss but in the end, the team is still good to great. Maybe they get a better result in a year.

Hello. Anyone want to talk hockey?
- bloatedmosquito

None of the optimists are here. They’ve all disappeared.

When did it become a cat?
- bobbyisno1

I don’t remember them playing the Panthers in any of the first rounds

I will say this once. Santo / AA & anyone else who needs to hear it - anyone who calls other posters names etc will get a ban. I’m tired of this crap to be honest so just stop.

Stop insisting, stop the name calling and just being insulting and rude to anyone. Who has a different opinion than you, scroll past and don’t respond.
- Cush29

Wtf? I haven’t said anything.

It would be insane to trade Marner unless the return was as equally insane.
- Woderwick

Ya absolutely. You shouldn’t trade anyone if the returns not adequate. Ever.

My point was that Marner would get back the most value and more than one for one piece. Marner could fix the middle 6 forwards, second pairing d pairing all by himself. Plus probably a pick or mucker for the 4th line. Especially with one of the Leafs second tier prospects and mid rd pick going back the other way.