Who else do they have on forward?

Lee, Palmeri, Parise, Nelson, Pageau, Bailey, Cizikas, Martin, Clutterbuck, Beauvileier and Whalstrom

Which of the above are currently top 6 players? Answer is none of them. Only 4 forwards had more than 40 points. Two forwards had more than 50, one overachieved and the other underachieved.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Lee, Nelson and Bailey are good players. Noah Dobson is an upcoming player. Your answer is wrong. They had a bad season team wise.

Who else do they have on forward?

Lee, Palmeri, Parise, Nelson, Pageau, Bailey, Cizikas, Martin, Clutterbuck, Beauvileier and Whalstrom

Which of the above are currently top 6 players? Answer is none of them. Only 4 forwards had more than 40 points. Two forwards had more than 50, one overachieved and the other underachieved.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Lee and Nelson have been top 6 players pretty much their whole careers. Lee is a former 40 goal scorer and has been between 25-35 for years. Nelson potted 37 this year and has been a 20-25 goal scorer for years.

Lee, Nelson and Bailey are good players. Noah Dobson is an upcoming player. Your answer is wrong. They had a bad season team wise.
- MJL

1) I stated Forwards. Dobson doesnt count

2) Lee is overrated. He has been declining since 2018-19

3) Bailey at best is a borderline 2nd line player. 40 points average is not good for a guy get top line mins

4) Nelson is another overrated player. He is a slightly better Hayes. I'll give you Nelson since he'd be ok as a #2 C.

He was Vice president of the Sens not Head coach. He has only ever been an assistant coach
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Replaced homer as hc in Hartford

Lee and Nelson have been top 6 players pretty much their whole careers. Lee is a former 40 goal scorer and has been between 25-35 for years. Nelson potted 37 this year and has been a 20-25 goal scorer for years.
- TobyFlenderson

Lee scored 40 goals once in his career. Has One 30 goal season. 4 seasons in the 20s and 1 seasons with less than 20.

Lou fires Trotz…what?! Oh no, yet another team planning to get a top 10 draft pick in 2023. What’s that, 17 teams for only 11 spots with a lottery chance for Bedard. One lucky duck is actually going to make the playoffs.

Lee scored 40 goals once in his career. Has One 30 goal season. 4 seasons in the 20s and 4 seasons with less than 20.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

How come you don't mention the games played in the years he scored less than 20?

1) I stated Forwards. Dobson doesnt count

2) Lee is overrated. He has been declining since 2018-19

3) Bailey at best is a borderline 2nd line player. 40 points average is not good for a guy get top line mins

4) Nelson is another overrated player. He is a slightly better Hayes. I'll give you Nelson since he'd be ok as a #2 C.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

What you stated is that they have Barzal and that's it. It was an uninformed comment. You're now trying to spin and moving the goal posts

How come you don't mention the games played in the years he scored less than 20?
- TobyFlenderson

I ignored the two seasons he played less than 25 games. I must have miscounted as I thought there were 2 seasons under 25 games and 2 seasons over 25 games played. There is only one season under 20

What you stated is that they have Barzal and that's it. It was an uninformed comment. You're now trying to spin and moving the goal posts
- MJL

Yes they have Barzal on forward and that is it. Even accepting Nelson that is not a talented forward line up. They have Barzal, Nelson and thats it on Forward. Happy?

I ignored the two seasons he played less than 25 games. I must have miscounted as I thought there were 2 seasons under 25 games and 2 seasons over 25 games played. There is only one season under 20
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

So if you extrapolate his career numbers based on games played, he's a 29 goal, 50 point a year player. That's a glorified third liner? You told me the other day expecting Frost to score 40-45 points as a 'third liner' was too great of an expectation.

Yes they have Barzal on forward and that is it. Even accepting Nelson that is not a talented forward line up. They have Barzal, Nelson and thats it on Forward. Happy?
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

You're still not correct.

Yes they have Barzal on forward and that is it. Even accepting Nelson that is not a talented forward line up. They have Barzal, Nelson and thats it on Forward. Happy?
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Barzal has scored over 20 once. So it’s Barzal, Nelson and Lee. Lee has been injured but he’s very talented. All 3 sacrifice significant offense in Trotz’ defensive structure. I agree on Bailey. He’s overrated and deserves 3rd line minutes at best. Bailey has become a turnover machine.

Barzal has scored over 20 once. So it’s Barzal, Nelson and Lee. Lee has been injured but he’s very talented. All 3 sacrifice significant offense in Trotz’ defensive structure. I agree on Bailey. He’s overrated and deserves 3rd line minutes at best. Bailey has become a turnover machine.
- Minnyhock

Bailey had a short jump up but he has not aged well. He seems to be declining sharply.

So if you extrapolate his career numbers based on games played, he's a 29 goal, 50 point a year player. That's a glorified third liner? You told me the other day expecting Frost to score 40-45 points as a 'third liner' was too great of an expectation.
- TobyFlenderson

He gets top line minutes. If 50 is the best you can muster on the top line you are not a top line player or you have nothing to work with. Given he has played with Barzal it is clear he has had a linemate to work with. Hayes has hit 50 points, you wouldnt call him a top line player. Most wont even call him a 2nd line player. You have to account for the extra ice time Lee gets on the top line. Frost on the 3rd line isnt going to get 20+ mins of TOI. Lee does. You have to compare the stats to where they play. Frost would also be a 2nd year player where as Lee is an 8 year vet

Bailey has a short jump up but he has not aged well. He seems to be declining sharply.
- MJL

IMO Bailey”s contract vs production is worse than JVR’s.

Trotz pros

1) Gets immediate buy in from players.
2) His teams play with strong structure in all 3 zones
3) Strong defensive teams
4)Plays a heavy forecheck

Cons

1) Limits high end offensive potential of players due to style of play
2) Players tend to get frustrated over time and want to play more wide open
- MJL

Do the Flyers have the legs/size to execute his forecheck scheme? This team already tried "strategic dump & chase" with AV with little success.

You're still not correct.
- MJL

I am not. This Flyers team is the worst team we have had in a while. Ask yourself this:

Would you take Lee over Farabee?

Would you take Bailey over Konecny?

Would you be happy if Fletcher added Palmeri or Parise for our 2nd line?

Im not going to ask about Hayes and Nelson, I already know you would take Nelson and frankly for Cap reasons I would too.

Beauvillier and Wahlstrom are good young players that teams would take however they are not at their ceiling yet.

He gets top line minutes. If 50 is the best you can muster on the top line you are not a top line player or you have nothing to work with. Given he has played with Barzal it is clear he has had a linemate to work with. Hayes has hit 50 points, you wouldnt call him a top line player. Most wont even call him a 2nd line player. You have to account for the extra ice time Lee gets on the top line. Frost on the 3rd line isnt going to get 20+ mins of TOI. Lee does. You have to compare the stats to where they play. Frost would also be a 2nd year player where as Lee is an 8 year vet
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Now you've moved from top 6 to top line.

He gets top line minutes. If 50 is the best you can muster on the top line you are not a top line player or you have nothing to work with. Given he has played with Barzal it is clear he has had a linemate to work with. Hayes has hit 50 points, you wouldnt call him a top line player. Most wont even call him a 2nd line player. You have to account for the extra ice time Lee gets on the top line. Frost on the 3rd line isnt going to get 20+ mins of TOI. Lee does. You have to compare the stats to where they play. Frost would also be a 2nd year player where as Lee is an 8 year vet
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I find it funny how you conveniently ignored that he's averaged nearly 30 goals a year for his career. I didn't say he was a top line player, I said he's been a pretty established top 6 player his whole career after you claimed the Isles only had 1 in Barzal. 30 goals a year for your career is pretty soundly a top 6 player. Also FWIW, Lee averaged 16:38 last year. You know, the year he scored 28 goals. He's actually never averaged over 20 mins a game in his career. Averaged 17:16 when he scored 40 but who's counting.

I am not. This Flyers team is the worst team we have had in a while. Ask yourself this:

Would you take Lee over Farabee?

Would you take Bailey over Konecny?

Would you be happy if Fletcher added Palmeri or Parise for our 2nd line?

Im not going to ask about Hayes and Nelson, I already know you would take Nelson and frankly for Cap reasons I would too.

Beauvillier and Wahlstrom are good young players that teams would take however they are not at their ceiling yet.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

If you have to constantly change the argument, that should be a direct indication to you. You stated that they have Barzal and that's it. Clearly, you were wrong.

I am not. This Flyers team is the worst team we have had in a while. Ask yourself this:

Would you take Lee over Farabee?

Would you take Bailey over Konecny?

Would you be happy if Fletcher added Palmeri or Parise for our 2nd line?

Im not going to ask about Hayes and Nelson, I already know you would take Nelson and frankly for Cap reasons I would too.

Beauvillier and Wahlstrom are good young players that teams would take however they are not at their ceiling yet.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

So Lee is now comparable to Farabee but not Frost, even though he's almost a decade older? You constantly move the goalposts

He gets top line minutes. If 50 is the best you can muster on the top line you are not a top line player or you have nothing to work with. Given he has played with Barzal it is clear he has had a linemate to work with. Hayes has hit 50 points, you wouldnt call him a top line player. Most wont even call him a 2nd line player. You have to account for the extra ice time Lee gets on the top line. Frost on the 3rd line isnt going to get 20+ mins of TOI. Lee does. You have to compare the stats to where they play. Frost would also be a 2nd year player where as Lee is an 8 year vet
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Trotz came in right after they lost Tavares. Trotz employed the best system to get wins with the talent they had. IMO Barzal is below replacement value when compared to Tavares. But I think Barzal has been disappointing more because of the system. Lee, Nelson and Barzal would have better career numbers if there was a better balance between preventing goals and scoring goals.

Now you've moved from top 6 to top line.

- MJL

How so?

Does Lee not play top line LW most of the time on the Isles - yes or no?

The answer is he does. Therefore the typical 40-50 point season is not good enough for the top line.

If Hayes is not good enough for 2nd line C at 40-50 points why would Lee?

Simple question. If the Flyers added any player off the Isles forwards not named Barzal, Wahlstrom and Beauvilleir would you be thrilled with the add?

Trotz! That’s the guy! Go get him