I'll be the first to admit that I don't really have the answer. I do know though when I read a suggestion that is also not the answer. I have no problem with legitimate use of LTIR. The issue to me is when a team like Vegas uses LTIR space gained from players who are temporarily going to be on LTIR to acquire a huge contract like Eichel's with cap space that they essentially don't really have. In the situation with Kucherov. When was he fully healthy and ready to play? If it's two weeks before the season is over, then that's when he should be activated. If you can't, then the player should be ruled ineligible for the playoffs. They need to differentiate players who are on LTIR temporarily versus players on permanent LTIR. - MJL
That doesn't do anything to solve the problem. - MJL
MLB and the NBA do it, football I think to a certain extent, the nhl is the only league with a hard cap, and quite frankly it' weird conceiving that a player who's career is finished has more value than a fourth liner...
Location: DISCLAIMER: HEAVY SARCASM FILTER, CO Joined: 10.24.2013
Mar 30 @ 4:08 PM ET
MLB and the NBA do it, football I think to a certain extent, the nhl is the only league with a hard cap, and quite frankly it weird conceiving that a player who's career is finished has more value than a fourth liner... - Alexzanki
Gotta remember though. He doesnt KNOW the right answer. He only KNOWS when other ideas wont work.
MLB and the NBA do it, football I think to a certain extent, the nhl is the only league with a hard cap, and quite frankly it' weird conceiving that a player who's career is finished has more value than a fourth liner... - Alexzanki
Those sports are in a better financial position than the NHL is.
Gotta remember though. He doesnt KNOW the right answer. He only KNOWS when other ideas wont work. - dothedougie
His argument is that the nhl and the players went to war at each other (lockout 2005), to instaure a more equal system of money allocation , a cap was a way for the owners to meet the players half way, because not all teams had the means to pay the big stars. So a luxury tax is contrary to what both sides agreed upon.
Fast forward 15 years later, this hard cap isn't the communist dream of equality the league hoped it would be. Teams are still trying to bypass the hard cap and take on more heavier salaries because apparently they can afford it, and others such as the Coyotes put a bare minimum payroll on the ice with LTIR contracts because usually those are insurance companies that pay and not ownership.
So the question is what's the point of a hard cap if team are willing to take on more heftier payrolls....might as well roll with it and put a luxury tax..
MLB and the NBA do it, football I think to a certain extent, the nhl is the only league with a hard cap, and quite frankly it' weird conceiving that a player who's career is finished has more value than a fourth liner... - Alexzanki
NFL has a hard cap. Granted, there are ways to manipulate contracts so that cap hits can be limited in certain years, but still teams essential have the same spending limits.
Personally, I love it. It creates a lot of parity and every team (except Arizona and Buffalo) can have a legitimate belief that their team can compete now or a few years down the road.
In the MLB, the Yankees and Dodgers are always going to be good because they can spend 10x what Pirates spend. In European soccer, its the same few teams at the top of each league every year.
Location: DISCLAIMER: HEAVY SARCASM FILTER, CO Joined: 10.24.2013
Mar 30 @ 4:37 PM ET
His argument is that the nhl and the players went to war at each other (lockout 2005), to instaure a more equal system of money allocation , a cap was a way for the owners to meet the players half way, because not all teams had the means to pay the big stars. So a luxury taxe is contrary to what both sides agreed upon.
Fast forward 15 years later, this hard cap isn't the communist dream of equality the league hoped it would be. Teams are still trying to bypass the hard cap and take on more heavier salaries because apparently they can afford it, and others such as the Coyotes put a bare minimum payroll on the ice with LTIR contracts because usually those are insurance companies that pay and not ownership.
So the question is what's the point of a hard cap if team are willing to take on more heftier payrolls....might as well roll with it and put a luxury tax.. - Alexzanki
Dont disagree. Just find it funny that there wasn't a counter proposal. It was just "nope, wont help".
His argument is that the nhl and the players went to war at each other (lockout 2005), to instaure a more equal system of money allocation , a cap was a way for the owners to meet the players half way, because not all teams had the means to pay the big stars. So a luxury taxe is contrary to what both sides agreed upon.
Fast forward 15 years later, this hard cap isn't the communist dream of equality the league hoped it would be. Teams are still trying to bypass the hard cap and take on more heavier salaries because apparently they can afford it, and others such as the Coyotes put a bare minimum payroll on the ice with LTIR contracts because usually those are insurance companies that pay and not ownership.
So the question is what's the point of a hard cap if team are willing to take on more heftier payrolls....might as well roll with it and put a luxury tax.. - Alexzanki
Not quite my opinion. I've never bought for a second that the cap had anything to do with parity. That was just a selling and talking point. It was always about the 50/50 split. Before the cap, player salaries were up around 80% of revenue. Now with teams using LTIR and half the league spending over the upper limit is the reason why such a large percentage of players salaries is withheld in escrow. So any "solution" for the LTIR issue that doesn't consider the 50/50 split is a non starter.
Location: bettman is a cancer to the league...get him the fuck out, ON Joined: 06.14.2009
Mar 30 @ 4:48 PM ET
It's cheating. That's why Tampas cups come with bold asterisks next to them because they didn't achieve them in an ethical fashion. Buttman was desperate for those southern US cups, desperate for that exposure, so desperate that he was willing to circumvent the rules and any type of decency in order to deliver them.
They could do something halfway like continue to allow a roster to exceed the cap limit during the playoffs but require that the 20 guys who get iced on any particular night fit under the cap.
How much of that 18 mill over the cap was dead space used by players that never played a game. Lets not act like kucherov wasnt actually huet for the season at nest he might have been healthy for the final two weeks. Lets also not forget kucherov hurt himself in game 1 of playoffs too. He played through it. Its not like he was purposely sat out for half the season so tampa could load up.
You want to stop this from happening? Let teams remove players who are never going to play again from teams cap. This is only exploited because guys get career ending injuries. Tampa is using Seabrook this year as a permanent LTIR. That 98 mill season saw Kucherov, Gaborik and Nilsson on ltir. Two of those guys never played a game
How much of that 18 mill over the cap was dead space used by players that never played a game. Lets not act like kucherov wasnt actually huet for the season at nest he might have been healthy for the final two weeks. Lets also not forget kucherov hurt himself in game 1 of playoffs too. He played through it. Its not like he was purposely sat out for half the season so tampa could load up.
You want to stop this from happening? Let teams remove players who are never going to play again from teams cap. This is only exploited because guys get career ending injuries. Tampa is using Seabrook this year as a permanent LTIR. That 98 mill season saw Kucherov, Gaborik and Nilsson on ltir. Two of those guys never played a game - xShoot4WarAmpsx
The salary cap is about accounting for player salaries. Even if a player is never going to play again, that player is paid a salary. His salary has to be accounted for in the players share. Money outside of the cap system was one of the biggest issues for the NHL during the lockout and after. It's why they instituted cap recapture.
You guys aren't looking at it from a GM's perspective.
Currently if a player goes onto LTIR - it turns an otherwise huge risk/liability - into an asset - regardless of whether you're a contender or rebuilding.
Why would GMs get rid of something that gives them greater flexibility? I don't think clock blocking is top priority for GMs, I bet they just think it's another tool so why eliminate it?
The fix to this is obvious: you do not cease to compete in a Salary Cap league once the playoffs start. Period. The cap is a hard cap. Player salaries extending/not extending into the playoffs doesn’t matter. They chose that in the form of fully guaranteed deals vs incentive laden deals whereby playoff competition represented a greater influence on salary potential.
There is nothing wrong with the system. There is only an issue with over-reactions to something that has worked almost flawlessly since 2005.
Are there a couple of instances that appeared to circumvent the cap? Yes.
Did the cap actually get circumvented? Hard to say, but the league claims due diligence investigating those issues and no one has provided evidence to the contrary.
Is it going to change soon? Not a chance. Players and GMs both benefit from the current system and the revenue is still shared 50/50. Until players get paid to play in the playoffs, there won't be a "cap" for the playoffs.
