Cab fare to nowhere
Is what you are
A white line to an exit sign
Is what you are

All that I saw in you
Now I see through
- Lawless18

I know the song lyrics but can't place it.

The GM miscalculated. With the Atkinson deal, it filled a hole but also created a hole. Which is okay if you fill the hole created by other means. Which Fetcher failed to do.
- MJL

Just flat out cant say it was a good trade. Have to put a caveat in there, why is that?

Congrats to all Flyers Cup Champions and good luck at States on Saturday. Special thanks to Bob Kelly and Brad Marsh for being there to present the Cup to Pennridge last night.
- hfc355

How about that Harris kid from Malvern.

The GM miscalculated. With the Atkinson deal, it filled a hole but also created a hole. Which is okay if you fill the hole created by other means. Which Fetcher failed to do.
- MJL

Agreed. I like Atkinson's skillset but this team misses Voracek's skating and playmaking.

I've been searchin' low and high
I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I asked Bobby Dylan
I asked the Beatles
I asked Timothy Leary
But he couldn't help me either
- Lawless18

Saw them on their 25th anniversary tour at Boulder Field

What if one of the big moves chuck wants to make is trading up for the #1 pick? That could be a big win, id rather that than johnny G for $9M
- bradster

Confidence is not high. Would be refreshing if Comcast Chuckie did something exciting like that.

I wanted to maybe give guys like JD250 (and that pov about Risto) an assist for egalitarian reasons as everyone is picking on him/that.

To this end, I tried to see if Risto suffered by being partnered with worse players more often than Sanheim, and if that dragged his #s down. So, I weighted minutes of each of RR and TS by the overall Corsi, GF% and xGF% of their respective partners (except when RR and TS played together, I used the Corsi, GF% and xGF% of that pairing).

Here are the results. The actual calculations are here. I am not posting those details here to avoid clutter.



Risto's #s are about the same or worse than could be expected based on quality of partner. Sanheim's though, are significantly better than what could be expected based on quality of partner. (Risto is completely average or worse than the D we have put on the ice this year, Sanheim is significantly better).

So, alas, Jd250 and others, I cannot offer the support I intended.

Just flat out cant say it was a good trade. Have to put a caveat in there, why is that?
- hello it's me 2050

i like the less salary part, even when adding a year

Its settled, Seeler is one of our best dmen.
- bradster

Its settled, Seeler is one of our best dmen.
- bradster

You don’t understand what the chart is showing. This is Sanheim based on who he is paired with.

I wanted to maybe give guys like JD250 (and that pov about Risto) an assist for egalitarian reasons as everyone is picking on him/that.

To this end, I tried to see if Risto suffered by being partnered with worse players more often than Sanheim, and if that dragged his #s down. So, I weighted minutes of each of RR and TS by the overall Corsi, GF% and xGF% of their respective partners (except when RR and TS played together, I used the Corsi, GF% and xGF% of that pairing).

Here are the results. The actual calculations are here. I am not posting those details here to avoid clutter.



Risto's #s are about the same or worse than could be expected based on quality of partner. Sanheim's though, are significantly better than what could be expected based on quality of partner. (Risto is completely average or worse than the D we have put on the ice this year, Sanheim is significantly better).

So, alas, Jd250 and others, I cannot offer the support I intended.
- PT21

Puzzled as to why you wasted your time doing that when it's already done.

It's not really about Seeler or Provorov individually. More so about that last column that shows Sanheim's numbers in total AWAY from Ristolainen.
- TobyFlenderson

jd250 seems to think you can't tell the difference between them statistically. When in fact Risto's played about 1/3 of his ES minutes away from Risto, and he's (far) better with just about everybody else but Yandle.

Perhaps the conversation needs to evolve onto discussing why the Flyers chose to re-sign Ristolainen.

Just flat out cant say it was a good trade. Have to put a caveat in there, why is that?
- hello it's me 2050

GP G A PTS +/-
Jake 61 4 42 46 -9
CAM 63 23 25 48 6

One big reason I hear repeatedly that the Flyers PP is so bad this year is their poor zone entries. I also read posts from some on this forum that state Jake was great at zone entries and that was a hole that was not filled when he was traded. So logically then, the Flyers PP must have been much better last year with Jake than this year without Jake.

Flyers 21-22: 13.66%
Flyers 20-21: 19.16%

So there is evidence that losing Jake has significantly hurt the Flyers PP this season.

Perhaps the conversation needs to evolve onto discussing why the Flyers chose to re-sign Ristolainen.
- MJL

Because the GM believes he is a good top 4 dman.

jd250 seems to think you can't tell the difference between them statistically. When in fact Risto's played about 1/3 of his ES minutes away from Risto, and he's (far) better with just about everybody else but Yandle.
- Tomahawk

Do you have the same chart showing Risto’s numbers based on playing with Sanheim or anyone else? Curious what that looks like.

Perhaps the conversation needs to evolve onto discussing why the Flyers chose to re-sign Ristolainen.
- MJL

Probably soon we can argue about why they traded Sanheim away

I wanted to maybe give guys like JD250 (and that pov about Risto) an assist for egalitarian reasons as everyone is picking on him/that.

To this end, I tried to see if Risto suffered by being partnered with worse players more often than Sanheim, and if that dragged his #s down. So, I weighted minutes of each of RR and TS by the overall Corsi, GF% and xGF% of their respective partners (except when RR and TS played together, I used the Corsi, GF% and xGF% of that pairing).

Here are the results. The actual calculations are here. I am not posting those details here to avoid clutter.



Risto's #s are about the same or worse than could be expected based on quality of partner. Sanheim's though, are significantly better than what could be expected based on quality of partner. (Risto is completely average or worse than the D we have put on the ice this year, Sanheim is significantly better).

So, alas, Jd250 and others, I cannot offer the support I intended.
- PT21

I appreciate the work you put in here but to be honest I'm not sure I understand it. Risto and Sanheim have been partnered together this entire season, I would estimate about 90% of their ice time overall. My point was not which one is a better defenseman, my point was you can't make a definitive claim solely looking at numbers, you need to watch the games. I pointed out cases where if one player makes a bad mistake that ends up in an opposition goal, everyone on the ice suffers from that mistake. For example last night Risto was a -2 and that accurately reflected his bad turnovers that directly resulted in opposition goals. However Sanheim was also a -2 but those goals were not his fault.

Probably soon we can argue about why they traded Sanheim away
- Tomahawk

Don't worry, the Flyers have one of the highest total of employees in the analytics department in the league. Which according to some automatically makes them one of the best.

Probably soon we can argue about why they traded Sanheim away
- Tomahawk

If the Flyers trade any of their current top 4, I think it will be Provorov because he can get the best return.

I appreciate the work you put in here but to be honest I'm not sure I understand it. Risto and Sanheim have been partnered together this entire season, I would estimate about 90% of their ice time overall. My point was not which one is a better defenseman, my point was you can't make a definitive claim solely looking at numbers, you need to watch the games. I pointed out cases where if one player makes a bad mistake that ends up in an opposition goal, everyone on the ice suffers from that mistake. For example last night Risto was a -2 and that accurately reflected his bad turnovers that directly resulted in opposition goals. However Sanheim was also a -2 but those goals were not his fault.
- jd250

You were just given significant info showing that out of about 1000 ES minutes for Sanheim, with Sanheim playing over 300 of those minutes away from Ristolainen. Yet here you are estimating that it's about 90%. That's the issue. Either you're not paying attention, can't understand it, or are just ignoring it.

Watching the games shows the same thing but you can't see that either. With making repeated claims of Ristolainen playing great. He's the best defenseman on the team and one of the best in the league. Etc.

Do you have the same chart showing Risto’s numbers based on playing with Sanheim or anyone else? Curious what that looks like.
- funmaster18

They're available on hockeyviz or evolving-hockey, but I'm too damn cheap to pay $5/mo for subs lol.

If the Flyers trade any of their current top 4, I think it will be Provorov because he can get the best return.
- jd250

So you reply to this post, but not the ones where I'm trying to explain the stats to you?

So you reply to this post, but not the ones where I'm trying to explain the stats to you?


- Tomahawk

"I refuse to believe it and you can't make me!"

gg