I'm not down on Ned. He has been pretty good for the most part and has played a lot with how bad Greiss has been. I don't fault him too much for last night with a bunch of deflections or guys just left all alone in the slot. I like how he handles the puck and passes to the defense to help them out instead of just shooting it around the boards to an opposing forward just waiting for it.

I'm not sure the Wings will have a chance at a top center in this next draft and i don't expect the Wings to win the lottery. Maybe Lambert will still be there when they pick but it might only be centers that are a tier below and might not project as top 6 centers. If that is the case we might end up with a defenseman or a winger again. That is why i talked about Hertl or Trocheck. Yzerman needs to bring in a legit top 6 center to give the Wings that offensive center depth they need to compete better. He also needs to add a better left dman than Leddy, DeKeyser or Staal to give Edvinsson some time to adapt to the NHL and take pressure off of him...plus give Seider someone he doesn't need to carry.

Wings are doing better than i thought they would this season. I might seem like i complain a lot on here but there are positives from this season.
- dcz28

Listen, we all have issues with how they’re playing. I feel it’s rooted in the fact that we want to be a top-tier contender…and the fact that there’s players who either aren’t performing the way they could, or need to move on. I wouldn’t say you complain too much, you’re frustrated like most of us!

My thing with Ned, personally, is I was caught up in how he did in CAR….and we are NOT the Canes 😖😖😖. I’d think it’s rough after having a team like the Canes in front of you to come to Detroit. I’m hoping he’ll improve, like I said; he doesn’t even have a full season in the NHL under his belt.

Yup, would be nice to have a shot at a top-3 draft, but just don’t see that happening. I’d think that means we’d be limited to a trade, internal development, or over-paying for a Center who’d want to come to Detroit. Would imagine having The Captain as the big shooter is a draw, but coaching/game-planning would repel most players.

LD is an issue, but there are several “issues” to deal with.

I like you guys lamenting that we don't have an elite center. Why do you think I've questioned our draft strategy? Stop drafting wingers. Take centers and d-men. Wingers are relatively easy too add via trade or free agency. Just in the last 5 years...

-imagine Suzuki or Necas instead of Rasmussen who was always destined to be a 3rd liner

-Hughes, Bouchard, or Dobson instead of Zadina

-Raymond is a nice asset. But Anton Lundell is a stud at 18. At some point you have to start taking some risks. Hertl and Trochek are not the answer.

I like you guys lamenting that we don't have an elite center. Why do you think I've questioned our draft strategy? Stop drafting wingers. Take centers and d-men. Wingers are relatively easy too add via trade or free agency. Just in the last 5 years...

-imagine Suzuki or Necas instead of Rasmussen who was always destined to be a 3rd liner

-Hughes, Bouchard, or Dobson instead of Zadina

-Raymond is a nice asset. But Anton Lundell is a stud at 18. At some point you have to start taking some risks. Hertl and Trochek are not the answer.
- HockeyBuzzed

Lundell is 20, not 18.

But hey, we all sometimes make innocent mistakes about details. No reason to be mean about it.

Lundell is 20, not 18.

But hey, we all sometimes make innocent mistakes about details. No reason to be mean about it.
- Sven22

I meant he was a stud at 18. Already playing against men. At the draft, he was considered the most NHL ready prospect. His hockey IQ and 200 foot game was blowing people away in a league against men. The only question was his ceiling. He probably wouldn't be a 1C. And two years later that's still likely the case. But on track to be a great 2C. Maybe a poor man's Bergeron or Ryan O'Reilly. In a redraft I still take him over Raymond. Centers are so much more valuable than wingers.

Have to laugh at the poster who says Anton Lundell IS 18 then tries to cover his honest(?) mistake by saying “What I meant was…”. What kind of person does that after ridiculing another poster for making a mistake, then admitting he made a mistake instead of trying to justify it? Sheesh.

See how arrogant that sounds?

I like you guys lamenting that we don't have an elite center. Why do you think I've questioned our draft strategy? Stop drafting wingers. Take centers and d-men. Wingers are relatively easy too add via trade or free agency. Just in the last 5 years...

-imagine Suzuki or Necas instead of Rasmussen who was always destined to be a 3rd liner

-Hughes, Bouchard, or Dobson instead of Zadina

-Raymond is a nice asset. But Anton Lundell is a stud at 18. At some point you have to start taking some risks. Hertl and Trochek are not the answer.
- HockeyBuzzed

If my Aunt had bullocks, she’d be my Uncle.

I meant he was a stud at 18. Already playing against men. At the draft, he was considered the most NHL ready prospect. His hockey IQ and 200 foot game was blowing people away in a league against men. The only question was his ceiling. He probably wouldn't be a 1C. And two years later that's still likely the case. But on track to be a great 2C. Maybe a poor man's Bergeron or Ryan O'Reilly. In a redraft I still take him over Raymond. Centers are so much more valuable than wingers.
- HockeyBuzzed

I get what you're saying, but I think a counter-argument is that if you're a team at the absolute nadir of a rebuild, having just played one of the worst seasons of NHL hockey any team has put together in 30 years and with at most 1 potentially elite player already in the pipeline (and it's far from a sure thing), you might need to take a harder swing with the No. 4 pick than a guy who you only project as a strong all-around second-liner, even if he's the safer or more NHL-ready choice.

Everything else being equal, yes, take the center over the winger because he's probably a better all-around player and it'll give you more versatility. But if you're choosing between someone you think could be an elite winger (a la Huberdeau, Rantanen, Kucherov, Stone, Marchand, etc.) versus someone you project as just a really good 2C, you take the winger no question.

To be clear, I'm making broad statements here about drafting philosophy. Not necessarily digging into Raymond and Lundell specifically, which is a whole other can of worms.

Yeah LD and 2C are the big holes to fill. I would add a back-up goalie to that list. More than likely Stevie will have to trade for or add those pieces in FA, there are not enough prospects to fill those positions in the pipeline. I think he will make a splash either at the TDL or the draft to fill these positions.
The one thing I like is there is no talk of finding a 1C this year as Larkin has stepped up his game nicely!

Have to laugh at the poster who says Anton Lundell IS 18 then tries to cover his honest(?) mistake by saying “What I meant was…”. What kind of person does that after ridiculing another poster for making a mistake, then admitting he made a mistake instead of trying to justify it? Sheesh.

See how arrogant that sounds?
- mcmastermike1968

My point was he was already excelling against MEN at age 18. At the draft he was considered a can't miss NHL player. But his ceiling was in question. I don't make stupid mistakes like that. Like you really believe that I thought Lundell was 18 years old right now? So a guy drafted in 2020 is 18 right now. Believe whatever you want to believe.

I get what you're saying, but I think a counter-argument is that if you're a team at the absolute nadir of a rebuild, having just played one of the worst seasons of NHL hockey any team has put together in 30 years and with at most 1 potentially elite player already in the pipeline (and it's far from a sure thing), you might need to take a harder swing with the No. 4 pick than a guy who you only project as a strong all-around second-liner, even if he's the safer or more NHL-ready choice.

Everything else being equal, yes, take the center over the winger because he's probably a better all-around player and it'll give you more versatility. But if you're choosing between someone you think could be an elite winger (a la Huberdeau, Rantanen, Kucherov, Stone, Marchand, etc.) versus someone you project as just a really good 2C, you take the winger no question.

To be clear, I'm making broad statements here about drafting philosophy. Not necessarily digging into Raymond and Lundell specifically, which is a whole other can of worms.
- Sven22

Yes if you think you could be drafting Kucherov versus Horvat, then sure, you swing for the fences on the winger. So I agree there. Maybe they think Raymond's ceiling is an all-star winger. And it might be. The other examples bothered me much more. Rasmussen was the safe pick. He'll play on the NHL, but likely never as a top 6 forward. That's where you swing for the fences on skill and take Necas or Suzuki. Oh well. Maybe they hit a home run on a center with a mid-1st or win the lottery. The whole rebuild will fail without another elite center. Simple as that.

Yes if you think you could be drafting Kucherov versus Horvat, then sure, you swing for the fences on the winger. So I agree there. Maybe they think Raymond's ceiling is an all-star winger. And it might be. The other examples bothered me much more. Rasmussen was the safe pick. He'll play on the NHL, but likely never as a top 6 forward. That's where you swing for the fences on skill and take Necas or Suzuki. Oh well. Maybe they hit a home run on a center with a mid-1st or win the lottery. The whole rebuild will fail without another elite center. Simple as that.
- HockeyBuzzed

100% agree that Rasmussen was an awful pick and just about everybody who was paying attention knew it from day one. His 5-on-5 scoring and playmaking ability stunk even in juniors. There was no way he was going to be able to translate his junior success (which mostly involved standing in front of the net and shoving in rebounds on the powerplay) to the NHL.

On Raymond / Lundell:

If I had a Calder ballot and had to vote right this instant, based purely on games already played and having done some but definitely not enough research:

1. Seider
2. Zegras
3. Raymond
4. Lundell
5. Nedeljkovic

I don't give Lundell extra credit for playing a lot of PK time because he sucks at it and the Panthers are getting absolutely ventilated (expected goals against, actual goals against) when he's killing penalties. His even strength defensive metrics are nothing to write home about either (better than Raymond though) and his +/- (which is a horribly flawed metric) is being carried by both the quality of his team and insane puck luck (106.2 combined on-ice shooting plus save percentage). I expect his all-around play will improve significantly in the next couple of years, but so far that elite 200-foot-player reputation (both special teams and even strength) has not yet materialized at the NHL level.

That said, I would be not at all surprised if Lundell ends up having the better career in the end, or even overtakes Raymond by the end of this season. He's got more offensive pop than I expected this early on and he's playing for a team that should be able to maximize his talents. Raymond still has the higher ceiling, I think, but may be less likely to reach it.

But yeah, it's early. Will be interesting to see how both players continue to develop.

100% agree that Rasmussen was an awful pick and just about everybody who was paying attention knew it from day one. His 5-on-5 scoring and playmaking ability stunk even in juniors. There was no way he was going to be able to translate his junior success (which mostly involved standing in front of the net and shoving in rebounds on the powerplay) to the NHL.

On Raymond / Lundell:

If I had a Calder ballot and had to vote right this instant, based purely on games already played and having done some but definitely not enough research:

1. Seider
2. Zegras
3. Raymond
4. Lundell
5. Nedeljkovic

I don't give Lundell extra credit for playing a lot of PK time because he sucks at it and the Panthers are getting absolutely ventilated (expected goals against, actual goals against) when he's killing penalties. His even strength defensive metrics are nothing to write home about either (better than Raymond though) and his +/- (which is a horribly flawed metric) is being carried by both the quality of his team and insane puck luck (106.2 combined on-ice shooting plus save percentage). I expect his all-around play will improve significantly in the next couple of years, but so far that elite 200-foot-player reputation (both special teams and even strength) has not yet materialized at the NHL level.

That said, I would be not at all surprised if Lundell ends up having the better career in the end, or even overtakes Raymond by the end of this season. He's got more offensive pop than I expected this early on and he's playing for a team that should be able to maximize his talents. Raymond still has the higher ceiling, I think, but may be less likely to reach it.

But yeah, it's early. Will be interesting to see how both players continue to develop.
- Sven22

My vote is Seider, Zegras, Lundell. Right now anyway. You can say Lundell benefits from the team around him. But I could also say Raymond benefits from Larkin and Bertuzzi. Obviously Florida is more talented, but Raymond enjoys far more talented linemates, and of course top PP time.

Reading that Petry is VERY unhappy in Montreal and wishes to move to an American team. His Family is in MI. Would Yzerman wish to acquire the 34 yo RD with his $6.25 million annual cap hit through 2024-25. I see the Habs having to retain some salary and send a sweetener with him as well. The Wings really haven't the need for a RD and I don't see Petry or any of our RD's switching sides to make room for him. However, there may be a deal to be made here and the Habs may well be desperate enough to shed salary to make it wort while. Does anyone here see a possibility of acquiring Petry?

Reading that Petry is VERY unhappy in Montreal and wishes to move to an American team. His Family is in MI. Would Yzerman wish to acquire the 34 yo RD with his $6.25 million annual cap hit through 2024-25. I see the Habs having to retain some salary and send a sweetener with him as well. The Wings really haven't the need for a RD and I don't see Petry or any of our RD's switching sides to make room for him. However, there may be a deal to be made here and the Habs may well be desperate enough to shed salary to make it wort while. Does anyone here see a possibility of acquiring Petry?
- HenryHockey

After looking at this, I see this to be more of a Kenny move than a Stevie move. But hey there may be a very good pick or prospect coming with Jeff, and if his salary is reduced $1.5M to 2.5M, it could work, considering if Pety bounces back he could be traded with that reduced salary rather easily. He only has a 6 team no-trade clause.

My vote is Seider, Zegras, Lundell. Right now anyway. You can say Lundell benefits from the team around him. But I could also say Raymond benefits from Larkin and Bertuzzi. Obviously Florida is more talented, but Raymond enjoys far more talented linemates, and of course top PP time.
- HockeyBuzzed

Raymond absolutely benefits from Larkin and Bertuzzi, no question, but he's also part of the reason those guys have exploded this year.

My point was he was already excelling against MEN at age 18. At the draft he was considered a can't miss NHL player. But his ceiling was in question. I don't make stupid mistakes like that. Like you really believe that I thought Lundell was 18 years old right now? So a guy drafted in 2020 is 18 right now. Believe whatever you want to believe.
- HockeyBuzzed

Fair point!

I'm by no means a hockey expert, a very rabid fan? Absolutely. So anything I 9or really, ANY of us) post is opinion....some folks have more stats (which really gives me the shakes ), and some are intensely knowledgeable, and often correct in their assumptions/opinions (like you....you know your ship!!!). That being said.....

For the life of me, I cannot see how a team can KNOW what a draft selection will turn out to be. It makes no sense, so any choice would be based upon metrics, experience, blah blah blah. So when I see folks looking back and saying "They should've done X, or Z..." it just hits me as "Yeah, maybe. But how does anyone truly know?".

Look, you and I clash, but NOT because of your smarts, HB. You are VERY insightful, and I do enjoy reading some of your opinions. I may not agree with them (or the delivery....and am letting that go.....), but I always enjoy reading differing opinions. I like how some of the guys bring in the stats to justify their stance. But I STILL cannot figure our Corsi

I like Raymond. He's going to be good. He has LOTS of growth ahead of him. I like Zadina, he has some growth (LOTS of growth offensively) but did put work in to adjust his game to be more defensive (many interviews & analysis reports, etc... refer to this). I'm NOT impressed with Ras. He needs TONS of work, IMO. The dude should be Holmstrom-lite, but isn't, and I don't see him being much more than a middle-6 guy....that sucks because he's got the tools to be more.

ROY to me, it's Mo Sides. Has the greatest impact on his team, and puts up impressive numbers. After that, it gets murky. Ned, Zegras (I REALLY like this kid....), Lundell is impressive (as you've stated MANY times, correctly), and Raymond is far and away better than ANYONE thought he'd be. It's a horse-race from #2 back. And, really, anyone could fall or climb; injury, COVID, sucky play, etc...). But I think if the votes were cast today, Mo's the man.

Detroit is at a cross-roads, I think. The voids are many, and the choices few (rely on lottery picks ain't gonna answer the mail). I think, like H2 said; there's gotta be some splashing in the UFA & trade market to push us to the next level. At least, looking at these 2 areas, we have a "decent" idea of what we're getting. Regardless, I'd offer that we're 3+ years away from being serious contenders for 2+ rounds in the SCPO....at best. And if that's true, who's the next Bert? Larkin? Not only do we need to make moves to fill the NOW gaps, we also need to look at the future gaps. I'd stick knitting needles in my eyes if I was the GM for a hockey team

Reading that Petry is VERY unhappy in Montreal and wishes to move to an American team. His Family is in MI. Would Yzerman wish to acquire the 34 yo RD with his $6.25 million annual cap hit through 2024-25. I see the Habs having to retain some salary and send a sweetener with him as well. The Wings really haven't the need for a RD and I don't see Petry or any of our RD's switching sides to make room for him. However, there may be a deal to be made here and the Habs may well be desperate enough to shed salary to make it wort while. Does anyone here see a possibility of acquiring Petry?
- HenryHockey

I'd stay away unless we get a REALLY nice sweetener. Not sure of their kids, but I'm sure that they wouldn't give up Suzuki to take Petry... Any ideas who they "could" offer (not who you WANT them to offer ). I liked Dan Petry....his kid was a fairly good D-man, but 34 and looking downhill form here.....yeah, we need something to take him!

The right time to acquire Petry would have been seven years ago when the Oilers were shopping him. Not in 2022, at age 34, in the middle of by far his worst season in several years and in the first year of a four year, $6.25 million AAV contract.

Petry has always been one of the more underappreciated D in the league and I would have loved to have him earlier in his career. But it's too late, at least at that price.

I'd stay away unless we get a REALLY nice sweetener. Not sure of their kids, but I'm sure that they wouldn't give up Suzuki to take Petry... Any ideas who they "could" offer (not who you WANT them to offer ). I liked Dan Petry....his kid was a fairly good D-man, but 34 and looking downhill form here.....yeah, we need something to take him!
- mcmastermike1968

Maybe this would work:
Petry ($1.25M retained) + Poeling for a 5th (Jim Beam )
Then again Poeling is not doing so hot (he had flashes of greatness) but is on a bad team.... and next year he will no longer be waiver eligible. They are not going to give up Guhle or Mysak and I have not enough knowledge of their other prospects.
Maybe Petry ($1.25M retained) + a 2022 2nd (33rd overall) for VGK 4th would suffice, as this draft will be deep.

Fair point!

For the life of me, I cannot see how a team can KNOW what a draft selection will turn out to be. It makes no sense, so any choice would be based upon metrics, experience, blah blah blah. So when I see folks looking back and saying "They should've done X, or Z..." it just hits me as "Yeah, maybe. But how does anyone truly know?".


- mcmastermike1968

To me, you have the grade the decision primarily based on what was known at the time of the pick.

I think in Rasmussen's case it's 100% valid to play the "what if" game because the red flags in his game were extremely visible and should have kept any team far, far away at least until the late first/early second round.

On the other hand, I'm a lot more forgiving of the Zadina pick. You can argue that under the circumstances Detroit should have gone with a D (and there's no question Hughes has been the better NHLer by far) but at the time there were still lots of reasons to be optimistic about Zadina's potential to develop into a high-end NHLer. Defensible pick that didn't pan out.

A more interesting edge case is Bertuzzi, who sure looked like a huge waste of a second rounder in 2013. If the Wings actually projected him as a potential star winger all the way back then, it's an amazing pick, considering at that point he was no more than a grinder in juniors and a lot of scouting services didn't even rank him at all. But if they really just got him because they liked his uncle and thought he'd make a good bottom six pest, I'm more inclined to call it a bad pick that we got stupidly lucky on.

Fair point!

For the life of me, I cannot see how a team can KNOW what a draft selection will turn out to be. It makes no sense, so any choice would be based upon metrics, experience, blah blah blah. So when I see folks looking back and saying "They should've done X, or Z..." it just hits me as "Yeah, maybe. k:
- mcmastermike1968

As Sven said...of course nobody knows with 100% certainty. But look what we DID know at the time. Rasmussen was huge, pushing smaller teenagers around. His skating wasn't great. He was banging in pucks on the PP. And his scoring took off when he played as a winger, not center. So you can call me arrogant or accuse me of hindsight, but I said at the time that his skills would not translate well to the NHL. He's going to lose his size advantage. He's a poor skater. He's going to end up as a bottom 6 winger. Sure I could end up wrong.

As for Raymond...listen, people here started saying we have the 2 best rookies in the NHL. I simply stated this was a ridiculous and naive statement. I never said Raymond was terrible. Simply said that Zegras and Lundell should get more votes than Raymond, if people are actually informed and honest.

It was definitely painful in the 4th….opps, 3d!! They just looked lost. Hard to watch after being strong v PIT.

Heard Kane potted 1 in his 1st game w/you guys! Hope it works out; I like Leon D & Co.
- mcmastermike1968

Oh, I was 100% watching the Wings game. I had the Oilers game on mute.

Oh, I was 100% watching the Wings game. I had the Oilers game on mute.
- Oilers4Life14

Yeah watch the Oilers on mute! That'll show them that you are serious about no longer being a fan!

By the way, Lundell has 4 primary assists so far tonight. Almost caught up to Raymond now. Haha.

By the way, Lundell has 4 primary assists so far tonight. Almost caught up to Raymond now. Haha.
- HockeyBuzzed

Update. Now he has 5 assists. All even strength. He's plus 6 tonight. I said him and Zegras would easily surpass Raymond and knock him off the ballot. I was told that was BOLD. Figured it would happen later in the year. Since then Lundell puts up 17 points in 15 games. Plus 20 in that span. Seider better watch out...