You tell me you're trying to win by trotting out Eichel, O'Reilly, Kane and Reinhart, but you also put Seth Griffith, Kyle Criscuolo, Hudson Fasching, Jacob Josefson, Matt Tennyson, Benoit Pouliot, the corpses of Matt Moulson and Josh Gorges, Scott Wilson and Nate Bowl-Yew.

(frank) off with that. (frank). Off.
- TheSabresTaco

Generally serious question outside of Fasching...

Who?

And, yes, that is your point.

I think this is a scenario where both can be true. The top-end talent should have got you into the playoffs in a league where more than 50% of teams make it at some point, even if by accident. At the same time, you can't put out a roster like that and say "we're serious about winning a Stanley Cup" with a straight face. There were issues with this team, and it wasn't just "the bottom six".
- buffalofan19

so if Edmonton Misses the playoffs yet again this year we can blame McDavid and Draisaitl then correct. We can consider them "not top talent."

I think this is a scenario where both can be true. The top-end talent should have got you into the playoffs in a league where more than 50% of teams make it at some point, even if by accident. At the same time, you can't put out a roster like that and say "we're serious about winning a Stanley Cup" with a straight face. There were issues with this team, and it wasn't just "the bottom six".
- buffalofan19

What's been made perfectly clear that if you have a few talented players and surround them with last week's garbage, the result is the Buffalo Sabres. A contending team was never built. Even last year, even before it started, the bottom 6 was shaky and so was the defense. The top 6 should have gotten us to the playoffs. Eichel happened, the other guys bombed, and it was up to Sam (frank)ing Reinhart and post Ralph, Jeff Skinner. This place is a (frank)ing circus.

I suppose in addition to being Matt Stafford he's Anze Kopitar too?
- lacaprup

nah id say more Cal O'Reilly.

I mean combined they have 400 NHL points.

so if Edmonton Misses the playoffs yet again this year we can blame McDavid and Draisaitl then correct. We can consider them "not top talent."
- ImThatGuy

The difference, here, though, is that their top-end talent did actually get them to the postseason, albeit not enough times.

At the end of the day, call them what you want: "top talent", "not top talent". If their careers are marred with losing: who cares?

nah id say more Cal O'Reilly.

I mean combined they have 400 NHL points.
- ImThatGuy

Oh, BTW, you must have missed this last page. You were going to destroy me on this point:
A) Did MS or did he not play in playoff games with DET? I believe he led Detroit to a 10 and 6 record and a playoff berth in his rookie season. What the actual (frank) about Jack is similar?

So, destroy away, tell me about Jack and Matt.

The difference, here, though, is that their top-end talent did actually get them to the postseason, albeit not enough times.
- buffalofan19

BINGO

we have a winner

more often then not, Eichel was not even a top 5 center in our division, let alone the entire NHL
- navinrjohnson

To me that is an indictment on the management, they failed to build an environment to get the best out of the players, which I think Vegas has and it will show through Eichel. Every Toronto/Buffalo game showed Eichel vs Mathews was a real battle. He has the work ethic, he was immature no doubt about it but he's also a young man in a horrible situation. The Pegulas depended on him vs built him up.

I'll gladly say I'm wrong on this if Eichel is mediocre in Vegas. The talent is there, he dominates possession like very few can and its not close, I am excited to watch him play.

BINGO

we have a winner
- lacaprup

proportionally speaking, they've 'failed' as much as Jack. Considering those two are the top two scorers in the league and have barely been to the playoffs, and absolutely suck right now as a team, do we sit here and bash them or maybe start to wonder.. hmm.. is it them or the team around them.

proportionally speaking, they've 'failed' as much as Jack. Considering those two are the top two scorers in the league and have barely been to the playoffs, and absolutely suck right now as a team, do we sit here and bash them or maybe start to wonder.. hmm.. is it them or the team around them.
- TheSabresTaco

Be careful, they're on a 4 game win streak and playing Ottawa tonight.

To me that is an indictment on the management, they failed to build an environment to get the best out of the players, which I think Vegas has and it will show through Eichel. Every Toronto/Buffalo game showed Eichel vs Mathews was a real battle. He has the work ethic, he was immature no doubt about it but he's also a young man in a horrible situation. The Pegulas depended on him vs built him up.

I'll gladly say I'm wrong on this if Eichel is mediocre in Vegas. The talent is there, he dominates possession like very few can and its not close, I am excited to watch him play.
- washedup20

I have always said Jack has top 5 center talent

but his numbers and the eye test shows more like top 10 center aside from 19-20 when he was finally playing like a complete 2 way center


for one reason or another his tenure was an epic failure and I doubt if we had mcdavid instead of eichel, the results would be that much different

Oh, BTW, you must have missed this last page. You were going to destroy me on this point:
A) Did MS or did he not play in playoff games with DET? I believe he led Detroit to a 10 and 6 record and a playoff berth in his rookie season. What the actual (frank) about Jack is similar?

So, destroy away, tell me about Jack and Matt.
- lacaprup

It wont matter.

proportionally speaking, they've 'failed' as much as Jack. Considering those two are the top two scorers in the league and have barely been to the playoffs, and absolutely suck right now as a team, do we sit here and bash them or maybe start to wonder.. hmm.. is it them or the team around them.
- TheSabresTaco

nah its their fault and only their fault.

I have always said Jack has top 5 center talent

but his numbers and the eye test shows more like top 10 center aside from 19-20 when he was finally playing like a complete 2 way center


for one reason or another his tenure was an epic failure and I doubt if we had mcdavid instead of eichel, the results would be that much different
- navinrjohnson

Agreed, which is only more evidence of how poorly run the Sabres are.

It won't matter.
- ImThatGuy

I'll take surrender.

Jack Eichel is great, he's going to light it up in Vegas, and it's going to be painful to watch. Any of you Twitter tw@ts know the extent of Mittelstadts injury yet?

That'll happen when the team is sold in the coming months.

With that. are we mad at the Pegulas for getting out when things are at their worst?
- ImThatGuy

i heard they won't be giving up full control...new guy at 49%

What's been made perfectly clear that if you have a few talented players and surround them with last week's garbage, the result is the Buffalo Sabres. A contending team was never built. Even last year, even before it started, the bottom 6 was shaky and so was the defense. The top 6 should have gotten us to the playoffs. Eichel happened, the other guys bombed, and it was up to Sam (frank)ing Reinhart and post Ralph, Jeff Skinner. This place is a (frank)ing circus.
- TheSabresTaco

Again, though, we've seen bad teams in the past overachieve their way to mediocrity and into the postseason. Usually, when that happens, it's because of your top-end talent. The law of averages says you should have been able to do that at least once in 6 seasons. That is not to say it's anywhere near "all his fault", but there are players that can mask teams' deficiencies, and I'm not sure Eichel is one of them. That doesn't mean he's not an elite talent, but the gap between a top 5 player/center and a top 10 is wider than we want to give credit for.

Maybe matt stafford is more like ror, who fell into the perfect situation?

Maybe matt stafford is more like ror, who fell into the perfect situation?
- Michael Pachla

I think that's exactly who he is.

ohh boo who, sports payers have it easier than us.
Their bodies take a beating, and frankly I cant blame him for not wanting to be here.

How many players have you heard over the years say avoid this organization, it goes back years, even before the Pegulas took over.

most players have zero say where they end up playing. Eichel ended up here because Tim Murray lost a lottery.

Eichel should have been in Arizona, let that sink in.
- ImThatGuy

And he would of been happier there?

i heard they won't be giving up full control...new guy at 49%
- Michael Pachla

Wait.....are you guys serious about this talk of sale? I thought this was all fun BS.

Maybe matt stafford is more like ror, who fell into the perfect situation?
- Michael Pachla

I kind of think it's silly to compare any NHLer to a QB.
QB is easily the most difficult position in team sports. Goalie and starting pitcher have shut down power, but there's nothing comparable to a QB in any sport.

Wait.....are you guys serious about this talk of sale? I thought this was all fun BS.
- lacaprup

i heard that they might bring in a partner at some 49%...have no idea but it originally came from petey on his podcast

Maybe matt stafford is more like ror, who fell into the perfect situation?
- Michael Pachla

Modern day Jim Plunkett

all the hype, taken first overall


Plunkett bounced around with a few teams and then won his first super bowl with the raiders at age 33
Stafford is 33 years old