I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?
- mohel

It has not happened in the NHL.

Edit: Sorry, Rutherford with Carolina and Pittsburgh as mentioned.

I'm on record even when he was playing "great" as not being a Kubalik fan. He's a useful player at best and bottom 6 on a good team. Saad went for $4.5 in the Covid Hockey economy and Kubalik can't carry his jock.
- rpeters01

While I like Kubalik, I will agree that he’s a 3rd line wing and he should not get more than $4M/year. If his agent is looking for more, then KD needs to move him. I’ve always been a Saad fan and the Blues did well to get him for $4.5M.

It has not happened in the NHL.

Edit: Sorry, Rutherford with Carolina and Pittsburgh as mentioned.
- TheTrob

I don't know if we can say Rutherford built a 2nd team in Pittsburgh; he arrived in 2014 with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Flower already there. That's a pretty good head start. I do think he did a great job in Pittsburgh, though, and I think he is an excellent manager.

Saying a guy who won three Cups in a long career is garbage takes away from the rest of your post, imo.

I get that you're mad about the way things are going, but c'mon man....
- mohel

Holland has not been relevant in the salary cap era. He can be respected for his past, but it means nothing to how he is as a GM in today's NHL. His time in Edmonton has been a complete failure so far, IMO.

It has not happened in the NHL.

Edit: Sorry, Rutherford with Carolina and Pittsburgh as mentioned.
- TheTrob

Sather did a pretty good job with the Rags, after his time with the 80's Oil, but not sure how much building he had to do on either team.

Sather did a pretty good job with the Rags, after his time with the 80's Oil, but not sure how much building he had to do on either team.
- Beergu

Sather didn't win a cup with the Rangers though

Strome jerked himself around by playing like crap.

I'm fine with jerking around Kubalik in a similar fashion.
- mohel

Correct.

Before we all start peeing our pants that "Strome is back", let's remember he played great when he had his dead cat bounce, half a season of really good hockey after he was traded.

Many thought (myself included), that the 2nd line center problem was solved. Then what happened? Going into a contract year and instead of playing to maximize his payday he plays meh. He then signs just before the season starts for probably more then he was worth only because Stan found out he's going to be without Toews to start the season. And Strome still played like he didn't care.

D. Strome has been playing well the past few games but I'm still skeptical whether he can actually do it an entire season.

Correct.

Before we all start peeing our pants that "Strome is back", let's remember he played great when he had his dead cat bounce, half a season of really good hockey after he was traded.

Many thought (myself included), that the 2nd line center problem was solved. Then what happened? Going into a contract year and instead of playing to maximize his payday he plays meh. He then signs just before the season starts for probably more then he was worth only because Stan found out he's going to be without Toews to start the season. And Strome still played like he didn't care.

D. Strome has been playing well the past few games but I'm still skeptical whether he can actually do it an entire season.
- Rota's Rooter

And what is your alternative? Toews? Dach? Borgstrom? Reichel? All have just as many, if not more question marks as Strome does.. Seems to be playing much better since having his kid. Not the first time that has happened for a professional athlete.

Holland has not been relevant in the salary cap era. He can be respected for his past, but it means nothing to how he is as a GM in today's NHL. His time in Edmonton has been a complete failure so far, IMO.
- Beergu

Good point about Holland starting before the cap era, but he did have a pretty good run after the cap began. But he was a highly successful GM and added some serious talent to Detroit (much to my chagrin). The fact that he hasn't been able to do it again is what I was saying about Stevie Y - it is rare to replicate that success in the NHL.

Correct.

Before we all start peeing our pants that "Strome is back", let's remember he played great when he had his dead cat bounce, half a season of really good hockey after he was traded.

Many thought (myself included), that the 2nd line center problem was solved. Then what happened? Going into a contract year and instead of playing to maximize his payday he plays meh. He then signs just before the season starts for probably more then he was worth only because Stan found out he's going to be without Toews to start the season. And Strome still played like he didn't care.

D. Strome has been playing well the past few games but I'm still skeptical whether he can actually do it an entire season.
- Rota's Rooter

I fully support all of this.

I fully support all of this.
- mohel

If he didn't care why did he take up juggling in the offseason to try and improve himself at the face-off dot. I know it is not JJ's weight training system, but still.

I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?
- mohel

Dale is doing pretty good in Florida. I dunno if they win a cup but they are certainly a competitive team. He's not the GM anymore but did draft a lot of their top players.

Jim Rutherford won in Carolina and twice in Pitt.

Winning a cup in the cap era is pretty difficult. The rebuild is typically a long process, there is limited top tier talent (so much so that Seth Jones is a 9.5 million dollar player) and the playoffs turn out to be more a battle of attrition then skill.

You really have to do a lot of things right to maintain long term success and that's a combination of making the tough decisions to move on from certain players (and getting value at their peak - the Panarin deal is a perfect example of how not to trade a top 5 player in the league and holding on to Seabrook for too long is another), drafting the right players and bringing in the right free agents is a big part. Huge difference team culture wise with a guy like Hossa in the locker room vs Havlat.

Its a tough job.

Correct.

Before we all start peeing our pants that "Strome is back", let's remember he played great when he had his dead cat bounce, half a season of really good hockey after he was traded.

Many thought (myself included), that the 2nd line center problem was solved. Then what happened? Going into a contract year and instead of playing to maximize his payday he plays meh. He then signs just before the season starts for probably more then he was worth only because Stan found out he's going to be without Toews to start the season. And Strome still played like he didn't care.

D. Strome has been playing well the past few games but I'm still skeptical whether he can actually do it an entire season.
- Rota's Rooter

Eh some injuries that second season including a high ankle sprain were a problem. They were bad as a team the year after that and then bad again this year - especially at the start and he certainly lost favor with the coach the year before last.

Regardless of the player potential - the GM \ hockey ops - brought in a guy that was known to be a slow skater and not physical to a team that wanted to play some overly complicated ultra aggressive man-man system. Seems kinda silly. de Haan was brought into that system and again - an average skate at best to play in a system that requires very good skaters to pull off? How much over the last 4 years is poor player performance vs poor direction and ill contrived scheme is debatable.

I think Strome should carry himself at about 220 and be impossible to move. I also think that youth size stick he uses has him off balance instead of in a strong athletic position which hampers his ability to use his long legs as leverage in battles. But he's probably a 40-55 point player on a team you won't remember which will provide a pretty decent living.

Kirby Dach looked good in his first run up here, not out of place in the bubble and then some moron decided he should play in the kids tournament and has regressed since. Surprise - surprise.

Anyway, before worrying about which players are signed or qualified or drafted - the team has to assume some type of identity, move on from players who don't fit that identity, get players and futures that fit that identity and move forward with some kind of plan instead of the haphazard poop show that has been now.

And what is your alternative? Toews? Dach? Borgstrom? Reichel? All have just as many, if not more question marks as Strome does.. Seems to be playing much better since having his kid. Not the first time that has happened for a professional athlete.
- LAHawk

The alternatives aren't that great presently.

Maybe Strome has turned a corner or maybe he goes back to the middling forward we've seen too much of.

I don't know what the correct answer is but I would like to see that type of play from him for more than a half dozen games before I'm convinced.

I'd add Parcels in football, too.

Seems rare in any sport, especially hockey.
- mohel

Vince Lombardi would have done it. Don Shula should have done it.

The alternatives aren't that great presently.

Maybe Strome has turned a corner or maybe he goes back to the middling forward we've seen too much of.

I don't know what the correct answer is but I would like to see that type of play from him for more than a half dozen games before I'm convinced.
- Rota's Rooter

How can you say that one shift says it all. If he was stronger things would come easier to him. Can't believe he doesn't see it.

Eh some injuries that second season including a high ankle sprain were a problem. They were bad as a team the year after that and then bad again this year - especially at the start and he certainly lost favor with the coach the year before last.

Regardless of the player potential - the GM \ hockey ops - brought in a guy that was known to be a slow skater and not physical to a team that wanted to play some overly complicated ultra aggressive man-man system. Seems kinda silly. de Haan was brought into that system and again - an average skate at best to play in a system that requires very good skaters to pull off? How much over the last 4 years is poor player performance vs poor direction and ill contrived scheme is debatable.

I think Strome should carry himself at about 220 and be impossible to move. I also think that youth size stick he uses has him off balance instead of in a strong athletic position which hampers his ability to use his long legs as leverage in battles. But he's probably a 40-55 point player on a team you won't remember which will provide a pretty decent living.

Kirby Dach looked good in his first run up here, not out of place in the bubble and then some moron decided he should play in the kids tournament and has regressed since. Surprise - surprise.

Anyway, before worrying about which players are signed or qualified or drafted - the team has to assume some type of identity, move on from players who don't fit that identity, get players and futures that fit that identity and move forward with some kind of plan instead of the haphazard poop show that has been now.
- fattybeef

WTH are you posting this crap on this board. Probably the best reasoned most logical post in a long time. I nominate you as the Hawks new GM. !!

And what is your alternative? Toews? Dach? Borgstrom? Reichel? All have just as many, if not more question marks as Strome does.. Seems to be playing much better since having his kid. Not the first time that has happened for a professional athlete.
- LAHawk

The alternative is to trade him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick that most likely doesn't amount to an NHL player or if he does it's 4, 5, 6, 7 years later, that's really smart

I would also keep Kubalik, he's trying to hard because he's got a contract coming up. They'll be able to sign him to a reasonable deal once the year is up. He's a better hockey player than how he's playing right now.

And what is your alternative? Toews? Dach? Borgstrom? Reichel? All have just as many, if not more question marks as Strome does.. Seems to be playing much better since having his kid. Not the first time that has happened for a professional athlete.
- LAHawk

You don' t have to like or want Strome yet there is no denying what you say, LA Hawk.

You don' t have to like or want Strome yet there is no denying what you say, LA Hawk.
- jhawk59

BTW LA HAWK,

It sure appears that the Kings are getting away with a lot of youth in their lineup this season, particularly lately. Too much youth normally is problematic. How is it that the Kings make it work out.

BTW LA HAWK,

It sure appears that the Mings are getting away with a lot of youth in their lineup this season, particularly lately. Too much youth normally is problematic. How is it that the Kings make it work put.
- jhawk59

????

And what is your alternative? Toews? Dach? Borgstrom? Reichel? All have just as many, if not more question marks as Strome does.. Seems to be playing much better since having his kid. Not the first time that has happened for a professional athlete.
- LAHawk

I am going to assume the current interim GM is the guy who is going to make the decision on Strome soon (and some of the other guys you mention for that matter) as to whether he can be a significant difference maker or just another guy who will suck up $3.5M per on a non playoff team in a tough Central Division. If its the former, keep him. If he deems him to be just a meh guy, move him out.

And while there has been some noticeable improvement in his individual play last few games, the Hawks are still only 1-4 in their last 5.

The worrisome thing to me is whether the Hawks really have any really astute hockey people in their front office who can make good hard nuts assessments on any of their players, not just Strome. Offers at the trade deadline for Strome should reflect what other teams think of him which helps the GM with his decision.

And in the list of players in your post you left off Tyler Johnson. The Hawks own his contract for another 2 seasons. Moving that one out won't be easy.

I could see potentially hiring a president from outside of the hockey industry and then have that person hire a “hockey guy” to be GM…similar to the arrangement with McMeddler and Stanblow, but why in the name of all that’s holy would you hire a GM from “outside of the hockey industry”?

Am I the only one who finds this possibility disturbing?
- Ogilthorpe2

I took this to mean they are interviewing Theo.........

If he didn't care why did he take up juggling in the offseason to try and improve himself at the face-off dot. I know it is not JJ's weight training system, but still.
- LAHawk

It is nice that he's improved. He has a long history of inconsistency, so it'll take more steady play before I trust him.

I still don't see him as a top six center on a contender, so I'd sell high.

Dale is doing pretty good in Florida. I dunno if they win a cup but they are certainly a competitive team. He's not the GM anymore but did draft a lot of their top players.

Jim Rutherford won in Carolina and twice in Pitt.

Winning a cup in the cap era is pretty difficult. The rebuild is typically a long process, there is limited top tier talent (so much so that Seth Jones is a 9.5 million dollar player) and the playoffs turn out to be more a battle of attrition then skill.

You really have to do a lot of things right to maintain long term success and that's a combination of making the tough decisions to move on from certain players (and getting value at their peak - the Panarin deal is a perfect example of how not to trade a top 5 player in the league and holding on to Seabrook for too long is another), drafting the right players and bringing in the right free agents is a big part. Huge difference team culture wise with a guy like Hossa in the locker room vs Havlat.

Its a tough job.
- fattybeef

I agree. It is hard. And luck is involved, which to me is why it is so rare for a GM to do it twice. Rutherford, who did a great job in Pittsburgh, did start off there with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Flower.