Ken Holland and his front office extended Detroit's window with Datsyuk in the 6th round in 1998 and Zetterberg in the 7th in 1999. They hit with Kronwall (no pun intended) late in the 1st in 2000. And for a few years after, they kept hitting with players who would have solid NHL careers. Until that success in the draft eventually waned.

Holland didn't draft Yzerman or Lidstrom (edit; nor did he sign any of the Russian Five), so he's never going to get the full credit in the court of public opinion. That and people will talk about how the Wings had a seemingly unlimited budget for players, so it's kinda like a GM getting credit with the George Steinbrenner era Yankees. So they could make that trade for Chelios, and sign the key free agents when necessary. And then the salary cap happened and it meant they couldn't keep Hossa.

Anyway, just to paint a more complete picture of Holland's time in Detroit. That's not a garbage tenure, but he did have advantages that not every GM had.

The Wings are what many here wish the Hawks to be. They cleaned house, on the ice and upstairs. Developed a very good farm system. Hired a top end GM almost three years ago to supercharge their rebuild. Now?

After a ten year rebuild the Wings are three points ahead of the Hawks and nine points out of a playoff spot. Now that's progress!

Be careful what you wish for.
- mohel

I resemble that remark. Impossible to draft your way to the top. Contracts rise too quickly even if you draft fantastic. This is why the S. Jones trade doesn't bother me. What's sad is we have nothing superfluous to get a #1 back which isn't Jones fault.

I resemble that remark. Impossible to draft your way to the top. Contracts rise too quickly even if you draft fantastic. This is why the S. Jones trade doesn't bother me. What's sad is we have nothing superfluous to get a #1 back which isn't Jones fault.
- rpeters01

How many years do you think it will take the Hawks to be a contender again? How old will Jones be at that time? I’m guessing 5 to 7 considering the lack of talent they currently have. Jones will be what, 33 to 35? Does the trade bother you looking at it that way?

I think the best, if not only, way to build a team is through the draft then add specific needs through trades or free agency. That’s how the Hawks did it to win three cups.

https://twitter.com/RyanHanaWWP/status/1486514691186778112?t=tcjyb5TUkh3yZBq4cSTH0w&s=01

Figured since he's been brought up
- BetweenTheDots

The TNT crew was just just like a dog in heat to the Red Wings.

I could see potentially hiring a president from outside of the hockey industry and then have that person hire a “hockey guy” to be GM…similar to the arrangement with McMeddler and Stanblow, but why in the name of all that’s holy would you hire a GM from “outside of the hockey industry”?

Am I the only one who finds this possibility disturbing?
- Ogilthorpe2

No, I'm right with you. Idiotic. The mere mention of it means trouble.

Interesting how the rebuilding (rebuilt) Detroit Red Wings average age is 26.32 yrs., while the need to tear it down to the studs Hawks is 26.42.

Grand Rapids their AHL team is just above Rockford in the standings (same division), Detroit (arguably in the weaker east) is just above the Hawks in the big show.

How many years do you think it will take the Hawks to be a contender again? How old will Jones be at that time? I’m guessing 5 to 7 considering the lack of talent they currently have. Jones will be what, 33 to 35? Does the trade bother you looking at it that way?

I think the best, if not only, way to build a team is through the draft then add specific needs through trades or free agency. That’s how the Hawks did it to win three cups.
- paulr

Not necessarily. The Rangers have turned things around pretty fast via a combination of drafting, and high end prospect acquisition. They also have added some strategic FA's. I think the key is being able to take on some crap to get some really good young prospects that are closer to being ready than just draft picks. Toews and Kane's contracts coming off the books will allow for some flexibility as well.

I can now see the frustration Oilers fans had with C. Jones. Some days he makes plays that you go WTF, and other times he had games like last night, where you see top 4 defenseman wirtten all over him. Man even his bad games though, his skating is beautiful.
- LAHawk

He only has 113 NHL games under his belt. Isn't he worth some regular playing time, instead of getting jerked in and out? Let's see how he's doing by the end of the season.

He only has 113 NHL games under his belt. Isn't he worth some regular playing time, instead of getting jerked in and out? Let's see how he's doing by the end of the season.
- scottak

I agree, probably when daHaan is gone, and gusto (who only had 8 minutes last night) is permanently in the press box, you will see C. Jones/Stillman/Mitchell get regular time with S. Jones/McCabe/Murphy

He only has 113 NHL games under his belt. Isn't he worth some regular playing time, instead of getting jerked in and out? Let's see how he's doing by the end of the season.
- scottak

This is probably one of the biggest problems with not only struggling teams, but rebuilding ones. Patience grows thin very quickly. Do I think Caleb Jones will grow into the player his brother is? No. Do I think he could become a good 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman? Certainly. Similar situations with Strome and Dach.

You can see the talent there. It's just a matter of getting them to play up to their potential. The balancing act is determining why and when you move on from a player. You can't always wait until a player is 25-26 to get their crap together, but sometimes you end up missing out on a really good player.

How many years do you think it will take the Hawks to be a contender again? How old will Jones be at that time? I’m guessing 5 to 7 considering the lack of talent they currently have. Jones will be what, 33 to 35? Does the trade bother you looking at it that way?

I think the best, if not only, way to build a team is through the draft then add specific needs through trades or free agency. That’s how the Hawks did it to win three cups.
- paulr

The hope would be 3-5 exhausting all in roads as Chunk said. Anything after that is meaningless. Buffalo, Ottawa and Edmonton have been at it what 15-20 years?

This is probably one of the biggest problems with not only struggling teams, but rebuilding ones. Patience grows thin very quickly. Do I think Caleb Jones will grow into the player his brother is? No. Do I think he could become a good 2nd or 3rd pair defenseman? Certainly. Similar situations with Strome and Dach.

You can see the talent there. It's just a matter of getting them to play up to their potential. The balancing act is determining why and when you move on from a player. You can't always wait until a player is 25-26 to get their crap together, but sometimes you end up missing out on a really good player.
- Chunk

Yes can't throw baby out with bath water. If Strome hits the weight room he could be really good.

Hello Theo,

Since you watch the Icehogs, I would like your review whether you like or feel there is better match up in the pairing on Rockford blueline. Specificly, not so much for the team success, but player developers both Stanton and Watson take a regular turn with a prospect. This arrangement is used often since it appears one prospect dman is kept on taxi squad ( currently Kalynuk)

As well, how does the NHL ceiling look for C Addison, Iowa and a Wild prospect. He has been spotted a couple times fir a game or two NHL recall.
He was a #2 round acquired via trade from the Penguins

Goldy has remained in Minny but Addison and Rossi have packed their suitcase a couple of times. So you see the Wild is using a similar system or method as Blackhawks for top prospects. Tip offensive and an offensive capable dman. Rossi and Boldy are top prospects which we need. They have Dewar too.

But where do we get the first round draft pick to trade that they would definitely want?
- LAHawk

The guy is going along at a -77 rate this year. Trade everything for him!

Yes can't throw baby out with bath water. If Strome hits the weight room he could be really good.
- rpeters01

With all the jerking around of Strome, healthy scratch, playing wing, playing on the fourth line, he is still a .5 PPG player. He is also the center on the roster that has some sort of chemistry with Kane. Hawks have his RFA rights, he makes $3 mil, which would be his qualifying offer. He is 24 years old. He is also probably the second best playmaker on the team. But because he doesn't skate like Ken Yaremchuk, we should just dump him for a 3rd rounder, but the 26 year old empty between the ears Kubalik, (who in 13 more games has one more point than Strome ( and a -15 as opposed to a -5) we should sign for 3 years at $5 mil., because he "tries hard"

I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?

I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?
- mohel

Rutherford with Carolina and Pittsburgh, only one I can think of. And did he really build or was in the right place at the right time.

I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?
- mohel

I don’t recall in the NHL, Epstein comes to mind in MLB.

With all the jerking around of Strome, healthy scratch, playing wing, playing on the fourth line, he is still a .5 PPG player. He is also the center on the roster that has some sort of chemistry with Kane. Hawks have his RFA rights, he makes $3 mil, which would be his qualifying offer. He is 24 years old. He is also probably the second best playmaker on the team. But because he doesn't skate like Ken Yaremchuk, we should just dump him for a 3rd rounder, but the 26 year old empty between the ears Kubalik, (who in 13 more games has one more point than Strome ( and a -15 as opposed to a -5) we should sign for 3 years at $5 mil., because he "tries hard"
- LAHawk

Strome jerked himself around by playing like crap.

I'm fine with jerking around Kubalik in a similar fashion.

I asked earlier if a GM has built a championship level team in one place, and then replicated that success in another place. Does anybody know if this has happened in the past 20-30 years?
- mohel

I've got 2 so far, both in MLB:

Dave Dombrowski - Florida and Detroit
Theo Epstein - Boston and Chicago Cubs

Bill Pollian came close in the NFL, 4 SB losses with Buffalo and and NFC Champ loss with Indianapolis.

Strome jerked himself around by playing like crap.

I'm fine with jerking around Kubalik in a similar fashion.
- mohel

I will use the Dach excuse, he played bad because he had a high ankle sprain. plus he wasn't a JC type of player

With all the jerking around of Strome, healthy scratch, playing wing, playing on the fourth line, he is still a .5 PPG player. He is also the center on the roster that has some sort of chemistry with Kane. Hawks have his RFA rights, he makes $3 mil, which would be his qualifying offer. He is 24 years old. He is also probably the second best playmaker on the team. But because he doesn't skate like Ken Yaremchuk, we should just dump him for a 3rd rounder, but the 26 year old empty between the ears Kubalik, (who in 13 more games has one more point than Strome ( and a -15 as opposed to a -5) we should sign for 3 years at $5 mil., because he "tries hard"
- LAHawk

I'm on record even when he was playing "great" as not being a Kubalik fan. He's a useful player at best and bottom 6 on a good team. Saad went for $4.5 in the Covid Hockey economy and Kubalik can't carry his jock.

Rutherford with Carolina and Pittsburgh, only one I can think of. And did he really build or was in the right place at the right time.
- LAHawk

That's a good one.

I was looking at Holland and SY earlier. What struck me was how much luck there is in building a great team. Both of those guys made some great picks in later rounds to add to the players who were already there (Hedman and Stamkos in Tampa's case). The Hawks did the same. Keith becomes a Hall of Famer. Toews is a third pick who was great immediately (for contrast see Strome and Dach so far, both 3rd picks, too).

It's hard to get so many things to break your way in two different situations.

I've got 2 so far, both in MLB:

Dave Dombrowski - Florida and Detroit
Theo Epstein - Boston and Chicago Cubs

Bill Pollian came close in the NFL, 4 SB losses with Buffalo and and NFC Champ loss with Indianapolis.
- scottak

I'd add Parcels in football, too.

Seems rare in any sport, especially hockey.

I could see potentially hiring a president from outside of the hockey industry and then have that person hire a “hockey guy” to be GM…similar to the arrangement with McMeddler and Stanblow, but why in the name of all that’s holy would you hire a GM from “outside of the hockey industry”?

Am I the only one who finds this possibility disturbing?
- Ogilthorpe2

Nope