Honestly if he is happy continuing to play wherever he can, good for him.

As much as it drove me nuts that he was continuing to take up an NHL roster spot with significantly sub-NHL skills, and as much as I criticized him as a player, it was never personal.

Would he still make a decent bottom-to-middle-six forward at the AHL level? Probably. If he wants to come back to West Michigan after the Olympics and take, like, Jonathon Martin's job I am 100% okay with that.
- Sven22

Actually I was not trying to ridicule him, it is good to see him have this sucess after his NHL career. Captained the national team as well!
I was just laughing at the circumstances that propelled him to these national teams!

Honestly if he is happy continuing to play wherever he can, good for him.

As much as it drove me nuts that he was continuing to take up an NHL roster spot with significantly sub-NHL skills, and as much as I criticized him as a player, it was never personal.

Would he still make a decent bottom-to-middle-six forward at the AHL level? Probably. If he wants to come back to West Michigan after the Olympics and take, like, Jonathon Martin's job I am 100% okay with that.
- Sven22

I recall during Abby's last days people were calling him useless, garbage, waste of space, etc...I guess that was OK then. But not now. Abby is still a better hockey player than all of the posters here. Let's show more respect. Mmkay.

I recall during Abby's last days people were calling him useless, garbage, waste of space, etc...I guess that was OK then. But not now. Abby is still a better hockey player than all of the posters here. Let's show more respect. Mmkay.
- HockeyBuzzed

I recall you getting wrecked on the last page.

I recall you getting wrecked on the last page.
- Feds91Stammer

Correct. I was wrecked. After studying your fancy stats in more detail I now agree that Zadina is the 3rd best forward on the team. Only Larkin and Bertuzzi lead him in any of those fancy categories. He's even better than Raymond. If Yzerman is shopping him let's hope we don't get a 2nd round pick back, but maybe a star player as well.

Correct. I was wrecked. After studying your fancy stats in more detail I now agree that Zadina is the 3rd best forward on the team. Only Larkin and Bertuzzi lead him in any of those fancy categories. He's even better than Raymond. If Yzerman is shopping him let's hope we don't get a 2nd round pick back, but maybe a star player as well.
- HockeyBuzzed

At the risk of inserting myself into an argument where I don't belong, I think the argument was that there is a statistical case for Zadina having more two-way play driving ability than he is typically given credit for. But having the third-best possession metrics is not the same thing as being the third best forward on the team, and I don't think anyone is seriously making that claim.

Playdriving is important skill but far from the only one that matters. Erik Condra was a great playdriver but his clear lack of hands limited him to checking roles. Alex Ovechkin historically has not been a particularly outstanding playdriver (compared to other top players) but he converts on such a high percentage of the chances he helps create that it more than makes up for it.

Personally I think Zadina is clearly not nearly as good as we all hoped he'd be and probably won't ever get there, but also doesn't suck nearly as bad as his scoring totals and +/- might otherwise suggest. Lots of junior scoring standouts that don't ever manage to figure out how to play high-level offense at the NHL level are successfully rehabbed into dependable two-way middle-sixers. That may well be where Zadina ends up.

At the risk of inserting myself into an argument where I don't belong, I think the argument was that there is a statistical case for Zadina having more two-way play driving ability than he is typically given credit for. But having the third-best possession metrics is not the same thing as being the third best forward on the team, and I don't think anyone is seriously making that claim.

Playdriving is important skill but far from the only one that matters. Erik Condra was a great playdriver but his clear lack of hands limited him to checking roles. Alex Ovechkin historically has not been a particularly outstanding playdriver (compared to other top players) but he converts on such a high percentage of the chances he helps create that it more than makes up for it.

Personally I think Zadina is clearly not nearly as good as we all hoped he'd be and probably won't ever get there, but also doesn't suck nearly as bad as his scoring totals and +/- might otherwise suggest. Lots of junior scoring standouts that don't ever manage to figure out how to play high-level offense at the NHL level are successfully rehabbed into dependable two-way middle-sixers. That may well be where Zadina ends up.
- Sven22

You gave that clown far more of an explanation than he deserves but your assessment is about as accurate as it gets.

At the risk of inserting myself into an argument where I don't belong, I think the argument was that there is a statistical case for Zadina having more two-way play driving ability than he is typically given credit for. But having the third-best possession metrics is not the same thing as being the third best forward on the team, and I don't think anyone is seriously making that claim.

Playdriving is important skill but far from the only one that matters. Erik Condra was a great playdriver but his clear lack of hands limited him to checking roles. Alex Ovechkin historically has not been a particularly outstanding playdriver (compared to other top players) but he converts on such a high percentage of the chances he helps create that it more than makes up for it.

Personally I think Zadina is clearly not nearly as good as we all hoped he'd be and probably won't ever get there, but also doesn't suck nearly as bad as his scoring totals and +/- might otherwise suggest. Lots of junior scoring standouts that don't ever manage to figure out how to play high-level offense at the NHL level are successfully rehabbed into dependable two-way middle-sixers. That may well be where Zadina ends up.
- Sven22

So he's not the 3rd best forward, but the 3rd best at play-driving. Ok. So he's not a bust then. We should keep him. Tell him to keep trying. And eventually he'll get better luck and start producing more than Marc Staal. Now I get it. Let's hope Yzerman is following along.

So he's not the 3rd best forward, but the 3rd best at play-driving. Ok. So he's not a bust then. We should keep him. Tell him to keep trying. And eventually he'll get better luck and start producing more than Marc Staal. Now I get it. Let's hope Yzerman is following along.
- HockeyBuzzed

Do you just enjoy being annoying as poop?

So he's not the 3rd best forward, but the 3rd best at play-driving. Ok. So he's not a bust then. We should keep him. Tell him to keep trying. And eventually he'll get better luck and start producing more than Marc Staal. Now I get it. Let's hope Yzerman is following along.
- HockeyBuzzed

Get wrecked.

Do you just enjoy being annoying as poop?
- Oilers4Life14

Yeah... it's that special talent he has. This was a peaceful blog until the Oilers blog lost their village idiot and he started wandering over here.

Yeah... it's that special talent he has. This was a peaceful blog until the Oilers blog lost their village idiot and he started wandering over here.
- Vladdie_Kon1

Narcissistic personality disorder
Also known as: NPD

Symptoms
If you are experiencing new, severe, or persistent symptoms, contact a health care provider.
Symptoms may vary from person to person. The most common symptoms include:

Being overly boastful, exaggerating one’s own achievements
Pretending to be superior to others
Lack of empathy for others
Looking down on others as inferior
Monopolising conversations
Impatient, angry, unhappy, depressed or has mood swings when criticized
Easily disappointed when expected importance is not given
Always craves for “the best” in everything
Has a very fragile self-esteem

So he's not the 3rd best forward, but the 3rd best at play-driving. Ok. So he's not a bust then. We should keep him. Tell him to keep trying. And eventually he'll get better luck and start producing more than Marc Staal. Now I get it. Let's hope Yzerman is following along.
- HockeyBuzzed

You are putting words in my mouth.

I never said he "wasn't a bust." That's an imprecise term with a very fluid definition, but I think if Zadina ends up as a dependable two-way third liner (which is a very realistic outcome for him) most people would say the term applies, and I wouldn't argue the point.

I also never said anything about whether the Red Wings should keep him or not and I actually would be 100% fine with trading him for a mid-lineup player who might be a better fit.

All I really said is that he doesn't suck and the point totals don't tell the whole story, which is a pretty damn low bar to clear. I hold a somewhat higher opinion of him as a player than you do, but I'm under no pretense that he is now or is ever likely to be part of Detroit's core moving forward.

You are arguing against, and attempting to make fun of, an imaginary version of me that does not exist, and holds opinions I do not hold. I'm fairly confident that you're doing so knowingly and on purpose as a tactic to get a rise out of me, but I'm continuing the discussion in good faith because at the very least Zadina's performance is a topic worthy of some reflection by the fans who choose to visit this board. Also I am very hard to offend, so if that's your gameplan you might consider choosing an easier target.

Yeah... it's that special talent he has. This was a peaceful blog until the Oilers blog lost their village idiot and he started wandering over here.
- Vladdie_Kon1

Not so fun fact:

I used to be the village idiot and was a big reason for the decline of the blog. Not very proud of my actions, but yeah they (frank)ing hate me too. My only excuse is that I was a dumb (frank)ing teenager that probably should have known better.

This (frank)ing moron is a grown ass man. No one likes him anywhere lol.

You are putting words in my mouth.

I never said he "wasn't a bust." That's an imprecise term with a very fluid definition, but I think if Zadina ends up as a dependable two-way third liner (which is a very realistic outcome for him) most people would say the term applies, and I wouldn't argue the point.

I also never said anything about whether the Red Wings should keep him or not and I actually would be 100% fine with trading him for a mid-lineup player who might be a better fit.

All I really said is that he doesn't suck and the point totals don't tell the whole story, which is a pretty damn low bar to clear. I hold a somewhat higher opinion of him as a player than you do, but I'm under no pretense that he is now or is ever likely to be part of Detroit's core moving forward.

You are arguing against, and attempting to make fun of, an imaginary version of me that does not exist, and holds opinions I do not hold. I'm fairly confident that you're doing so knowingly and on purpose as a tactic to get a rise out of me, but I'm continuing the discussion in good faith because at the very least Zadina's performance is a topic worthy of some reflection by the fans who choose to visit this board. Also I am very hard to offend, so if that's your gameplan you might consider choosing an easier target.
- Sven22

If you have any interest taking over the blogger role here you have my vote.

At the risk of inserting myself into an argument where I don't belong, I think the argument was that there is a statistical case for Zadina having more two-way play driving ability than he is typically given credit for. But having the third-best possession metrics is not the same thing as being the third best forward on the team, and I don't think anyone is seriously making that claim.

Playdriving is important skill but far from the only one that matters. Erik Condra was a great playdriver but his clear lack of hands limited him to checking roles. Alex Ovechkin historically has not been a particularly outstanding playdriver (compared to other top players) but he converts on such a high percentage of the chances he helps create that it more than makes up for it.

Personally I think Zadina is clearly not nearly as good as we all hoped he'd be and probably won't ever get there, but also doesn't suck nearly as bad as his scoring totals and +/- might otherwise suggest. Lots of junior scoring standouts that don't ever manage to figure out how to play high-level offense at the NHL level are successfully rehabbed into dependable two-way middle-sixers. That may well be where Zadina ends up.
- Sven22

Yes, Maltby comes to mind.....

You are putting words in my mouth.

I never said he "wasn't a bust." That's an imprecise term with a very fluid definition, but I think if Zadina ends up as a dependable two-way third liner (which is a very realistic outcome for him) most people would say the term applies, and I wouldn't argue the point.

I also never said anything about whether the Red Wings should keep him or not and I actually would be 100% fine with trading him for a mid-lineup player who might be a better fit.

All I really said is that he doesn't suck and the point totals don't tell the whole story, which is a pretty damn low bar to clear. I hold a somewhat higher opinion of him as a player than you do, but I'm under no pretense that he is now or is ever likely to be part of Detroit's core moving forward.

You are arguing against, and attempting to make fun of, an imaginary version of me that does not exist, and holds opinions I do not hold. I'm fairly confident that you're doing so knowingly and on purpose as a tactic to get a rise out of me, but I'm continuing the discussion in good faith because at the very least Zadina's performance is a topic worthy of some reflection by the fans who choose to visit this board. Also I am very hard to offend, so if that's your gameplan you might consider choosing an easier target.
- Sven22

lay him down easily!

If you have any interest taking over the blogger role here you have my vote.
- Feds91Stammer

Hey Feds, just wondering, are you cheering for the Wings or the Pens tonight?

If you have any interest taking over the blogger role here you have my vote.
- Feds91Stammer

Sure. I could try and take over. Where do I sign up? Could I lean on you to provide fancy stats when needed? Thanks in advance. I'm serious. This could be fun.

Sure. I could try and take over. Where do I sign up? Could I lean on you to provide fancy stats when needed? Thanks in advance. I'm serious. This could be fun.
- HockeyBuzzed

You got wrecked so bad you keep referring to some simple shot metrics as fancy stats. This is just getting sad.

Sure. I could try and take over. Where do I sign up? Could I lean on you to provide fancy stats when needed? Thanks in advance. I'm serious. This could be fun.
- HockeyBuzzed

You're going to be punching air by me telling you this:

I was legit offered an opportunity to write for a team on this site. Turned it down, because I'm already writing about four different teams, but I can tell you one thing:

You don't have the chops to write kiddo. You over compensate for your tiny penis by posting hot takes and pretending you're right all the time. It's very off putting to a potential reader.

Plus your opinions suck ass.

You got wrecked so bad you keep referring to some simple shot metrics as fancy stats. This is just getting sad.
- Feds91Stammer

I just thought we could team up and write kewl blogs together. Guess not.

I just thought we could team up and write kewl blogs together. Guess not.
- HockeyBuzzed

Usually people only team up with people that bring something of value to the table. Don’t think anyone is willing to make an exception for you.

I really like the Smith-Veleno-Gagner line.

Suck my fat cock, hockeybuzzed