Wow Sixers game pretty empty. Those damn Covid restrictions killing attendance just like Dave Scott said.

This organization is in horrible hands. I can’t imagine 2 worst passionless people running a organization. I can now see that the on ice product is a direct reflection of these 2 (Scott and Fletcher). No emotion, no passion , no urgency, only fake superficial attempts at improving.

As a fan of this team since 1969-70 I can not remember a worst lifeless team. There may have other bad teams but I can’t remember being this disheartened and feeling this current group. listless top to bottom, I think even Fletcher uses the word “ malaise” to describe the team.
These 2 leading the way in the malaise department is very fitting.
May God bless this franchise and I hope Mr Ed Snyder forgives them for destroying his fine work.
- Hosher12

Who sold majority stake to Comcast 25 odd years ago?

I don't think he is closer to the exception than the rule. He is an exception. However, I could post a pretty large list of current and recent players who are that exception. So there's two things here. Giroux was unquestionably an elite player for a time and a player good enough to be a top player and part of a championship core. He still is, as is Couturier. Although I wouldn't label either elite now.
The other is that the Flyers have had high picks. They had a 2nd overall and a 7th overall I believe where they picked Provorov. The didn't get an elite player with either pick although Provorov is a pretty good player. So they've had their chances. They might get another chance at a high pick after this season. Have to cash in. Have to use your picks also to have a better chance at getting lucky later in the draft. What are the Flyers going to do? Seems like they're going to double down on trying to win now. Not the smart thing in my opinion. As someone else pointed out, they gave up a 2nd to create the cap space and a 1st , 2nd and a player for Ristolanen. Not very smart in my opinion.
- MJL

as to the first part about giroux, there was a period where while i think he would have needed a really good team around him, he could have been the best overall forward on a cup winning team. i dont think that is the case any longer (not saying you necessarily are either). he could definitely still be a big part of it though, but obviously not with the flyers.

ive never disagreed about ristolanen. loved when you guys acquired him. ill admit my gut reaction was that ellis would have worked out a lot better for you than it did. I didnt think it would have swung the scale to making the flyers a title contender, but coming into this season i viewed them and the pens battling for one of the final playoff spots and in that regard a healthy ellis could have made the difference. You could argue thats not your end goal for the flyers so youd rather they not have done it at all and thats totally fair, but that was my concern coming into the season. Risto however has the potential to be the gift that keeps on giving. Best case scenario for the flyers is to recoup some of what they shipped out for him at the deadline. Who knows what that will be. All it takes is for one GM to become infatuated.

I recall Peter Laviolette said that.

Possibly even higher than 10-12 for Roo. Problem is, teams that won the cup had players as high if not higher. Look at Giroux's most successful years in playoffs before that ridiculous 12 Pens series. Where did he play? 2nd/3rd line, as supplementary scorer.


- PT21

So Giroux's most successful year in the playoffs coincided with being on a team that was by far the best team he ever played on as a Flyer. Coincidence? I think not.

Look at Mike Richard's ice time in 2012 playoffs ( incl special teams). 3rd among forwards (after Kopitar and Brown). Where was it in playoffs for our 09-10 run? 1st.


- PT21

The difference between Brown and Richards was a little over a minute. That's maybe one or two shifts. With the Flyers, a reason why he was first over Briere is that Briere did not play on the PK. Richards played high minutes in all 3 situations. Interesting though that based in earlier post, you view a player who was 3rd in icetime as a supplemental player and not a core player.

Who was our the single most important player for the 2009-10 run? A HOFer. I put Kimmo, Richards, Carter et al in the same category: good but not great enough to win.


- PT21

How about Danny Briere, who led the entire playoffs in scoring. Carter and Richards both won Stanley cups as core players so you're obviously wrong about that. Timonen was a legitimate #1 defenseman.

Look where Williams ended up? On Staal's wing. How about Sharp? With Kane, Hossa, Toews. How important was Schenn in 2018 Blues? Very important but not the most. Centering the first line, not a single Conn Smythe vote on any ballot.


- PT21

Williams ended up winning the Conn Smythe but in your view, that's a supplemental player. Williams is a winger, so he has to play with a center. Sharp was a 25-30 goal 60 point player and an all star. None of your points here make any sense.

as to the first part about giroux, there was a period where while i think he would have needed a really good team around him, he could have been the best overall forward on a cup winning team. i dont think that is the case any longer (not saying you necessarily are either). he could definitely still be a big part of it though, but obviously not with the flyers.


- stayinthefnnet

In his prime, no doubt but not now. Still fully capable of being a top forward on a cup team though. Just not THE forward.

I recall Peter Laviolette said that.

Possibly even higher than 10-12 for Roo. Problem is, teams that won the cup had players as high if not higher. Look at Giroux's most successful years in playoffs before that ridiculous 12 Pens series. Where did he play? 2nd/3rd line, as supplementary scorer.

Look at Mike Richard's ice time in 2012 playoffs ( incl special teams). 3rd among forwards (after Kopitar and Brown). Where was it in playoffs for our 09-10 run? 1st.

Who was our the single most important player for the 2009-10 run? A HOFer. I put Kimmo, Richards, Carter et al in the same category: good but not great enough to win.

Look where Williams ended up? On Staal's wing. How about Sharp? With Kane, Hossa, Toews. How important was Schenn in 2018 Blues? Very important but not the most. Centering the first line, not a single Conn Smythe vote on any ballot.

These are very subjective, very hypothetical assessments, but my personal take is that if we had a great supporting cast, we would likely have topped out as deep playoff threats but not gotten to promised land. A la Sharks. Indeed, in the past 20 years, I have never seen a Flyers team that when I watched them play, looked to me to be among the top 3 favorites for the cup. Speed and skill in particular were always a perpetual problem, along with goalie play ofc and fragile defense.

The much touted Hockey News faves for the 2009-10 cup I hear a lot about here (from Bill and Black Hand), but I never see substantiation of their claims. Indeed, note that even before Razor went down, I see them ranked by THN 4th in conference for the season (maybe they recall a different poll at a different time...)

https://thehockeynews.com...egular-season-predictions
- PT21

I cant find anything. I did the search not long ago and there were numerous links. Dont know what to tell you other than you'll have to take my word on it

I cant find anything. I did the search not long ago and there were numerous links. Dont know what to tell you other than you'll have to take my word on it
- THE BLACK HAND

It is statistically unlikely that both you and Bill will misremember the exact same piece of information in identical fashion, so yeah, I will take (both of) your words for it.

Having said that, remember that was a newly minted team. Pronger. Razor. That was just going by roster, not past play of same team.

I recall Peter Laviolette said that.

Possibly even higher than 10-12 for Roo. Problem is, teams that won the cup had players as high if not higher. Look at Giroux's most successful years in playoffs before that ridiculous 12 Pens series. Where did he play? 2nd/3rd line, as supplementary scorer.

Look at Mike Richard's ice time in 2012 playoffs ( incl special teams). 3rd among forwards (after Kopitar and Brown). Where was it in playoffs for our 09-10 run? 1st.

Who was our the single most important player for the 2009-10 run? A HOFer. I put Kimmo, Richards, Carter et al in the same category: good but not great enough to win.

Look where Williams ended up? On Staal's wing. How about Sharp? With Kane, Hossa, Toews. How important was Schenn in 2018 Blues? Very important but not the most. Centering the first line, not a single Conn Smythe vote on any ballot.

These are very subjective, very hypothetical assessments, but my personal take is that if we had a great supporting cast, we would likely have topped out as deep playoff threats but not gotten to promised land. A la Sharks. Indeed, in the past 20 years, I have never seen a Flyers team that when I watched them play, looked to me to be among the top 3 favorites for the cup. Speed and skill in particular were always a perpetual problem, along with goalie play ofc and fragile defense.

The much touted Hockey News faves for the 2009-10 cup I hear a lot about here (from Bill and Black Hand), but I never see substantiation of their claims. Indeed, note that even before Razor went down, I see them ranked by THN 4th in conference for the season (maybe they recall a different poll at a different time...)

https://thehockeynews.com...egular-season-predictions
- PT21

thats my thing though. Giroux was not yet at the height of his powers when the team was. the timing just didnt line up. You could argue that giroux needed the richards/carter/pronger era to phase out for him to be able to grow to take that next step, but still. By the time giroux WAS at that top ten level, the team around him wasnt. But it was largely good enough to generally preclude the acquisition of a steady influx of higher draft capital to reacquire and grow enough top end talent within his own stud window.

im not in disagreement at all as to the correlation between the players getting to move on and shine brighter due to the reflection of the stars they were now supporting. mainly just pointing out that it may be a while before the team acquires a player as good as prime giroux

It is statistically unlikely that both you and Bill will misremember the exact same piece of information in identical fashion, so yeah, I will take (both of) your words for it.

Having said that, remember that was a newly minted team. Pronger. Razor. That was just going by roster, not past play of same team.
- PT21

Statistically unlikely.

Who sold majority stake to Comcast 25 odd years ago?
- PT21

Are you suggesting Mr Ed Snyder should have know how the current management would run the team when he sold it to Comcast 25 years ago?

Wow Sixers game pretty empty. Those damn Covid restrictions killing attendance just like Dave Scott said.
- StepfordSam

It’s hard to see those fans at the Sixers game when he has his head up his @$$.

I wouldn’t mind the team sucking as long as there was some excitement for the future. There’s not one player in the flyers system I’m excited about and I think that’s where most fans frustrations come in
- PhillaBully

This is one of the best posts I've seen on here. Totally agree! We've hit rock bottom and nothing to look forward to. The only player in the system I was excited about was Allison and look how well that has worked out. So bummed about how injury prone he is.

This is one of the best posts I've seen on here. Totally agree! We've hit rock bottom and nothing to look forward to. The only player in the system I was excited about was Allison and look how well that has worked out. So bummed about how injury prone he is.
- Don Nachbaur

I agree with you. I personally think Allison is a player if he can ever stay healthy.

Are you suggesting Mr Ed Snyder should have know how the current management would run the team when he sold it to Comcast 25 years ago?
- Hosher12

Not saying he is to blame .. for anything at all. He built this.

But that Comcast, a corporation, would run the Flyers as though ..they were a corporation? Like they have treated every single thing they owned? Like every corporation ever has?

Yeah, would say that was foreseeable.

thats my thing though. Giroux was not yet at the height of his powers when the team was. the timing just didnt line up. You could argue that giroux needed the richards/carter/pronger era to phase out for him to be able to grow to take that next step, but still. By the time giroux WAS at that top ten level, the team around him wasnt. But it was largely good enough to generally preclude the acquisition of a steady influx of higher draft capital to reacquire and grow enough top end talent within his own stud window.

im not in disagreement at all as to the correlation between the players getting to move on and shine brighter due to the reflection of the stars they were now supporting. mainly just pointing out that it may be a while before the team acquires a player as good as prime giroux
- stayinthefnnet

All I am saying is that if you partition team into
Best players/Most important
supplemental/next important
role players
warm-bodies
backups

etc. etc,

The Giroux-Voracek-Couturier trio does not measure up with the 3 best forwards of any teams except Boston 2011 and Blues 2019, and those had a monster and Pietro, and very good goalie and got-crazy-hot goalie respectively => if those 3 were our 3 most important players than the 3 most important players of every cup team in the post lock-out era were better than them in hindsight and all but the Blues trio (Pietro-Binnington-ROR) were better than them even in foresight.

That's my take...

Not saying he is to blame .. for anything at all. He built this.

But that Comcast, a corporation, would run the Flyers as though ..they were a corporation? Like they have treated every single thing they owned? Like every corporation ever has?

Yeah, would say that was foreseeable.
- PT21

I guess I don’t disagree but it still sad what this once proud organization has become.
There doesn’t seem to be any pride left and as someone on here said the fans are only treated as walking piggy banks to be emptied.

I guess I don’t disagree but it still sad what this once proud organization has become.
There doesn’t seem to be any pride left and as someone on here said the fans are only treated as walking piggy banks to be emptied.
- Hosher12

Lets see where this goes.

Comcast believes clearly that attendance will come right back up when team starts winning a little and gets back to at least bubble status and Covid restrictins abate. We all know there are going to be splashy FA moves geared towards that goal.

My gut feeling is that Comcast is correct and many passionate long time fans here are wrong and attendance will come right back, pride or not, soulless or not.

Guess I am just a cynical guy. Would be delighted to be wrong. But every single cynical projection I make about this team comes true, so...

Corporations should be banned from owner any pro level team.

Corporations should be banned from owner any pro level team.

I agree with you. I personally think Allison is a player if he can ever stay healthy.
- MJL

Yes, absolutely! It's hard to believe the bad luck he's had.

Lets see where this goes.

Comcast believes clearly that attendance will come right back up when team starts winning a little and gets back to at least bubble status and Covid restrictins abate. We all know there are going to be splashy FA moves geared towards that goal.

My gut feeling is that Comcast is correct and many passionate long time fans here are wrong and attendance will come right back, pride or not, soulless or not.

Guess I am just a cynical guy. Would be delighted to be wrong. But every single cynical projection I make about this team comes true, so...
- PT21

When the clueless flyers make a few trades and or sign a few new players and hype the team up absolutely 100% stupid flyers fans will come out to games. Time and time again it happens. Flyers fans too dumb to realize moving a few layers out and bringing in players like Ellis/risto talent level will never be close enough to win helps keep the status quo.

Yes, absolutely! It's hard to believe the bad luck he's had.
- Don Nachbaur

Fringe 3rd line player. Whoopty do.

Normally yes, with CC all bets off.

Also keep in mind with how they want to "compete" again next year I can easily see some some mid level player/vet as the return for CC instead of picks/prospects.
- hello it's me 2050

🤢🤮

Lets see where this goes.

Comcast believes clearly that attendance will come right back up when team starts winning a little and gets back to at least bubble status and Covid restrictins abate. We all know there are going to be splashy FA moves geared towards that goal.

My gut feeling is that Comcast is correct and many passionate long time fans here are wrong and attendance will come right back, pride or not, soulless or not.

Guess I am just a cynical guy. Would be delighted to be wrong. But every single cynical projection I make about this team comes true, so...
- PT21

The casual fan that just reads the headlines will be back and profits will improve but a winning cup contender they will not be until they change upper management. This group as with most corporations are usually only making superficial changes.
So I guess we agree on most things.

Yes, absolutely! It's hard to believe the bad luck he's had.
- Don Nachbaur

Not sure if it's bad luck. He couldn't stay healthy in college either. Too bad.