I dont think they would have to retain salary.
- MBFlyerfan

Has nothing to do with if he’s worthy of the cap hit, it would open up more suitors do absorb his contract and the flyers could field more offers

If the flyers really want to aggressively retool (whatever that means) and they have a lot of chips to deal, why not make a play for Chychrun?
- mikeyo27

They would would be competing against teams that will be able to use him and his cheap contract in the playoffs this season and the seasons after that, so consider what happened the last time Chuck outbid multiple other teams to get a dman.

Also, Chychrun has a long history of injuries already at age 23. Not really the guy I think the Flyers should be selling the farm for.

If the flyers really want to aggressively retool (whatever that means) and they have a lot of chips to deal, why not make a play for Chychrun? Years left on a good cap friendly deal. A top level talent. Already established so better than most first round draft picks. Been reading the asking price is a first rounder, prospect and nhl player… certainly the flyers could be in on that. Would Sanheim and Frost be too much or not enough in such a deal? Especially if you move G and send the playoff teams 1st rounder? Just spitballing but that would be an aggressive retool. Could have something like Chychrun and a healthy Ellis along with Provorov and York as top 4 next year?
- mikeyo27

love flyers fans.

ES GA/60 for two randomly selected Arizona dmen

Chychrun 4.41 in 30 GP, 598:27

Gostisbehere 2.82 in 41 GP, 745:19

ES GA/60 for two randomly selected Arizona dmen

Chychrun 4.41 in 30 GP, 598:27

Gostisbehere 2.82 in 41 GP, 745:19
- Feanor

There you have it Ghost is way better, maybe we can trade for him back. Hard to argue with stats

ES GA/60 for two randomly selected Arizona dmen

Chychrun 4.41 in 30 GP, 598:27

Gostisbehere 2.82 in 41 GP, 745:19
- Feanor

Randomly

Sanheim could have a solid career, turn a corner maybe. I don't see it happening in Philadelphia. It's been something many of us have been saying, but how can we expect any of these dudes to take that next step amidst this mess?

Honestly, with how much effort we've seen on the ice from Hart since he started, and now with this rock bottom season, how much more can he have from here on out? Watching your bosses flail in a post mortem press conference in January cannot instill a ton of confidence in your future.

These players aren't dumb. They know they're employed by jokers and company men that truly don't care about the on ice product. If I was in Hart's position, I'd be looking to make a move out at some point.

Isaac Ratcliffe will make his debut Saturday, wearing # 76.
He's already in great company.
- PLindbergh31

They had cap space and, as Toronto and especially Tampa have shown, you can leverage LTIR-bound players for added cap allowance.


Trade wise, seller teams wanted (still want) picks and/or young players from buyers. Hexy wasn't willing to do that for returns of late 20s to early 30 players. And I get it. But he had a window where he had some promising players in the NHL who were still on their ELCs plus his core group in their mid-to-latter 20s.

It's all hindsight, and there was a logic behind it (which is usually what I judge by more than outcome -- show me the thought process). But let's say the Flyers did add a scoring winger and a bonafide goalie upgrade, and got past the Pens in the same kind of series where the Pens were kind of ripe to be knocked off.

It may have bought Hextall more time than 1/4 of an additional season. Who knows?
- bmeltzer

If you try to glean underlying logic from actions*, and ignore what he said (which is a combination of what you said you preferred), what is the picture that emerges of Hextall's reign?

*
Trades Hartnell for Umberger (former averaging about 20% more ppg before trade)
Trades Schenn for picks + Lehtera
Keeps prospects in AHL
Signs Voracek but no NMC
Signs JVR but no NMC
Plays key role in signing Amac (as you have mentioned)
Keeps a young player friendly coach forever and ever
Shuts out old guard (arrogance or doesn't like their take on things?)

The picture that emerges seems to be one of two things:
1. Hextall was confused. many of his movies seem to contradict the philosophy of other moves.
2. Hextall was doing a soft tank/competitive rebuild which needed some more years to come to fruition. He was likely waiting for the end of the Giroux/Voracek contracts, and wanted a few more prospects in cupboard till that time came. What he did re: JVR,Amac, Voracek etc were all the bare minimum to keep up appearances to fan base and/or the old guard/Scott.

I honestly don't know which way the evidence points. My personal guess is the 2nd, but I admit the scope for a different take.

What was interesting from Scott. All the players he mentioned as part of the “core” have next to no trade value and are practically immovable (except for farabee). Coots, Hayes, Ellis.

No mention of provorov, konecny, even Atkinson, sanheim, hart( I think an omission)

Coupled with fletchers quote saying everything is on the table, I would expect that 2nd group of players to be on the market this summer in exchange for draft capital and close to ready prospects.

And he is right to be thinking this way. Provorov, konecny, sanheim. They have value and they are the ones that are going to bring draft/prospect resources that’s going to push this thing
- Just5

I think Sanheim is as good as gone. Maybe Konecny. Not sure on Provorov.

Houston is terrible. Harris County, TX is hell on Earth. Hockey would not thrive there.
- PLindbergh31

Ha ha. True.

Coyotes to play at ASU for a few years while they wait for a new, as-yet unapproved, arena?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...play-5000-seat-arena-asu/
- Scoob

I mean, I guess we can all feel good that the Flyers aren't the Coyotes??

Can we feel good about that?

Also, I've lived in Southern Arizona for 7 years now, and I've literally never met a Coyotes fan. Every guy I played with in the Men's league (I only get 12 games a year, because Tucson has no rink, just the convention center arena for the AHL Roadrunners and the UofA team) was from elsewhere in the country.

I'll bet the majority of people here (and in Phoenix, outside of Scottsdale) have no idea who Austin Matthew is. If that's not an indication that hockey in Sonora is being horribly managed, then I don't know what is.

Sad. They're building a big three rink facility that will house the UofA team and hopefully provide more icetime for cheaper. Set to open 2023. Tucson is the biggest city of it's size WITHOUT a year round hockey rink. So I guess they're trying?

If you try to glean underlying logic from actions*, and ignore what he said (which is a combination of what you said you preferred), what is the picture that emerges of Hextall's reign?

*
Trades Hartnell for Umberger (former averaging about 20% more ppg before trade)
Trades Schenn for picks + Lehtera
Keeps prospects in AHL
Signs Voracek but no NMC
Signs JVR but no NMC
Plays key role in signing Amac (as you have mentioned)
Keeps a young player friendly coach forever and ever
Shuts out old guard (arrogance or doesn't like their take on things?)

The picture that emerges seems to be one of two things:
1. Hextall was confused. many of his movies seem to contradict the philosophy of other moves.
2. Hextall was doing a soft tank/competitive rebuild which needed some more years to come to fruition. He was likely waiting for the end of the Giroux/Voracek contracts, and wanted a few more prospects in cupboard till that time came. What he did re: JVR,Amac, Voracek etc were all the bare minimum to keep up appearances to fan base and/or the old guard/Scott.

I honestly don't know which way the evidence points. My personal guess is the 2nd, but I admit the scope for a different take.
- PT21

or holmgren and Clarke were really running the show...

I think Sanheim is as good as gone. Maybe Konecny. Not sure on Provorov.
- rayc16

If I'm forced to choose, Provy stays. The other two, I'm making phone calls all day.

He DID feel that adding JVR to the 98-point group from the previous season could help them take the next step. He said it on the record and I heard off-the-record, too.

The real miscalculation, as I said, was coming back again with Elliott/Neuvirth as the intended tandem again. Neither guy was healthy, Pickard flopped as a stopgap, and the season sunk quickly.
- bmeltzer

Anyone who watched the 2012 series against the Devils, the 2014 series against the Rangers, the 16 series against Caps and the 18 series against Pens, and came to the conclusion that a Roo+Voracek+Couts forward core is good enough to just need supplementary pieces, well, I dunno what to say.

or holmgren and Clarke were really running the show...
- hello it's me 2050

Doesn't make sense. If so, there would be no perceived slights to them/"franchise royalty". No need for rumors about arrogance. No need to get rid off him.

Anyone who watched the 2012 series against the Devils, the 2014 series against the Rangers, the 16 series against Caps and the 18 series against Pens, and came to the conclusion that a Roo+Voracek+Couts forward core is good enough to just need supplementary pieces, well, I dunno what to say.
- PT21

Yes.

Hextall and The Brass watched that 2018 first round vs pittsburgh and came away saying "We need something. We need a player that can really push us over the top, bring some excitement back, play some FlyersHockeyTM"

And he went out and signed JVR. That is not a good move. He was never the kind of player this organization was short on.

Anyone who watched the 2012 series against the Devils, the 2014 series against the Rangers, the 16 series against Caps and the 18 series against Pens, and came to the conclusion that a Roo+Voracek+Couts forward core is good enough to just need supplementary pieces, well, I dunno what to say.
- PT21

You mean when the undermanned team ran into a superior opponent? 2018 is the only time I was truly disappointed in G and Voracek. The 2018 Pens were ripe for the upset.

If I'm forced to choose, Provy stays. The other two, I'm making phone calls all day.
- FloHaake

If I'm the decision maker, I definitely keep Provy unless you get blown away. Even if he settles in as a #2 d and not a #1, his cap is reasonable. I wouldn't sign Risto and look for another RH D that can play on top pair, have to assume Ellis will keep missing significant time. Cost will probably prevent that getting another top pairing D.

You mean when the undermanned team ran into a superior opponent? 2018 is the only time I was truly disappointed in G and Voracek. The 2018 Pens were ripe for the upset.
- mickel25

I am glad you found Giroux's performance (6 games played, 1 assist) in 2016, for example, to be explainable by extraneous circumstances.

Before you give me the line about supporting cast, etc, look up Tavares stats in playoffs for the Isles, with a far worse cast. Or, Taylor Hall's playoffs stats when he won the Hart.

Individual details aside, some national talking head (Friedman? Melrose?) called the 14 series to be the most one sided 7 game series he had ever seen, and I agree. The 2020 Isles series would come pretty close though. To me, they were absolute mismatches.


Take away the hat-tricks by simmer in 2014 and Couts in 2018 and the picture becomes even clearer. Indeed, they might have been that facial cross-check of Niskanen on BG away from blowing that series to Habs.

- rayc16

The sad thing is, Ratcliffe won't play near the amount of games for the Flyers as Vande-Stiff

I am glad you found Giroux's performance (6 games played, 1 assist) in 2016, for example, to be explainable by extraneous circumstances.

Before you give me the line about supporting cast, etc, look up Tavares stats in playoffs for the Isles, with a far worse cast. Or, Taylor Hall's playoffs stats when he won the Hart.

Individual details aside, some national talking head (Friedman? Melrose?) called the 14 series to be the most one sided 7 game series he had ever seen, and I agree. The 2020 Isles series would come pretty close though. To me, they were absolute mismatches.


Take away the hat-tricks by simmer in 2014 and Couts in 2018 and the picture becomes even clearer. Indeed, they might have been that facial cross-check of Niskanen on BG away from blowing that series to Habs.
- PT21

Dude the 2016 team had no business even being in the playoffs. Giroux, Voracek, Ghost and the goaltending of Mason got them there. The Caps were a far superior team. Giroux was documented as injured for basically the whole second half of the 2016 season. The Flyers would have beaten the Rangers in 2014 if Mason had played the whole the series. Check the stats. Also, who assisted on two of those Simmonds goals and scored another? I am sure you know who but maybe check anyway. 2018 was truly disappointing. Giroux should have played better.

Dude the 2016 team had no business even being in the playoffs. Giroux, Voracek, Ghost and the goaltending of Mason got them there. The Caps were a far superior team. Giroux was documented as injured for basically the whole second half of the 2016 season. The Flyers would have beaten the Rangers in 2014 if Mason had played the whole the series. Check the stats. Also, who assisted on two of those Simmonds goals and scored another? I am sure you know who but maybe check anyway. 2018 was truly disappointing. Giroux should have played better.
- mickel25

So: I thought we were talking about the forward core of Roo+Couts+Voracek.

If you truly believe this is the core of a contending team, you expect them to show that against a superior team. Check out the stats of the Tampa core of Stamkos+Kucherov+the Palat/Johnson/Killorn line (weren't they called 3 musketeers or something like that?) prior to their debacle against CBJ. You will see that through those disappointing defeats, those guys collectively largely kept up their end of the billing.

Strongly disagree Rangers/Mason etc. I remember that series vividly. I remember individual assists of that game you reference, like that amazing bank pass Roo made to Simmer to hit him in stride and paced just right to not draw him offsides.

That series should have been over in 5-6 games.

I am glad you found Giroux's performance (6 games played, 1 assist) in 2016, for example, to be explainable by extraneous circumstances.

Before you give me the line about supporting cast, etc, look up Tavares stats in playoffs for the Isles, with a far worse cast. Or, Taylor Hall's playoffs stats when he won the Hart.

Individual details aside, some national talking head (Friedman? Melrose?) called the 14 series to be the most one sided 7 game series he had ever seen, and I agree. The 2020 Isles series would come pretty close though. To me, they were absolute mismatches.


Take away the hat-tricks by simmer in 2014 and Couts in 2018 and the picture becomes even clearer. Indeed, they might have been that facial cross-check of Niskanen on BG away from blowing that series to Habs.
- PT21

Also, was 2014 a mismatch or was it Giroux coming up short? You listed the series as an absolute mismatch yet it went seven games. So which is it?

If I'm the decision maker, I definitely keep Provy unless you get blown away. Even if he settles in as a #2 d and not a #1, his cap is reasonable. I wouldn't sign Risto and look for another RH D that can play on top pair, have to assume Ellis will keep missing significant time. Cost will probably prevent that getting another top pairing D.
- rayc16

the issue is a top pairing RHD would be over $8M. Maybe over 9