I am just wondering who we as fans think we are to demand a man who has built a life, career and family here in Philadelphia to suddenly pick up and move for the better of our enjoyment.

I luv G and without him the Flyers would have been a bad team the past 10 years. Is it his fault that the past 3 or 4 gm's decided not to put enough talent around him, is it his fault there has been piss poor drafting before hextall?

I can only imagine what might have been if the flyers did not trade Richards and Carter. Even without Pronger I believe they would have been a Stanley Cup team.

Do I want G to stay - yes. But for his sake he should ask to be traded to a team that has structure and can actually compete. He should go to a team that doesn't have to play dump and chase because of the lack of talent.

I will not demand that he waive is NMC but I wish that he does.
- WhiskeyMan

Every NHL player plays to win a Stanley Cup. That isn't happening for Giroux in Philadelphia. He will want to get as far away from this disgraceful, dysfunctional franchise as possible.

Hexy -- whom I like, respect and do not believe should be thrown under the bus -- had strengths and weaknesses as a GM. He also is three years removed.

That being said, Hexy didn't do as well at cap management as some say he did.

The Hartnell-for-Umberger trade really saved almost nothing on the cap for two years, and while Hartnell still had two 20-goal and 50-60 point seasons left in him, RJ was no longer effective and ended up being bought out, spreading the remaining cap residuals over two years. That one didn't work out.

Dale Weise at four years for a $2.35M cap hit didn't work out, on or off the ice.

The Andrew MacDonald contract was a) the first major contract negotiated by Hexy (still the assistant GM at the time officially but already chosen behind the scenes as next GM, and empowered to be the one to negotiate it), and b) MacDonald's open-market value that offseason. Detroit, for one, was prepared to offer almost an identical contract if MacDonald had made it to UFA status. Yes, Holmgren was on board with it and still the GM, but Hexy and Homer were in lockstep on this particular deal. Can't blame one and absolve the other.

It was Hexy who negotiated Jakub Voracek's monster extension. But keep in mind that Voracek had just been in the Art Ross Trophy race (leading it, in fact, for several weeks around midseason) leading up to it. Timing matters a lot on contracts. Also, while Voracek may not have been among the absolute elites of the NHL over the bulk of his Flyers years, he was still a good player.

Hexy's timetable to emerge from the "farm system restock" phase to trying to accelerate the push from being a bubble playoff team to a Cup contender had 2018-19 as the key year to take that step. The team was coming off a 98-point season and had blown a big Game 6 lead against Pittsburgh with a Game 7 within reach. The decision to sign JVR was Hexy's. It made sense at the time -- JVR was coming off his career-best year in Toronto, had been a Flyer before, the team needed a goal-scoring winger and it cost no assets to bring him in. The signing in and of itself hasn't been a disaster, but it hasn't really ever worked out as hoped.

Hexy's biggest mistake that offseason, though, was banking on Brian Elliott and Michal Neuvirth to get healthy. The result was the goalie carousel of 2018-19, and it really hastened the end of both Hexy and Hak.

Draft-wise, I don't want to rehash Patrick in 2017 or the 2014 Draft. In 2014, let us not forget that Hexy was prepared to make a push for the top overall pick and taking Ekblad and it was Florida who got cold feet. As for Sanheim vs Pastrnak, well, there were reasons at the time why Pastrnak was still on the board until 11 spots after the Flyers took Sanheim. There's nothing wrong with drafting a defenseman with all the tools that Sanheim had, nor has it been an unsuccesful pick. He's been a double rather than a home run. It happens.

As far as overruling scouts goes, that's a GMs prerogative. In 2011, the Flyers' scouts' consensus leaned toward Jonas Brodin. Paul Holmgren, having just traded Mike Richards and Jeff Carter for the 8th overall pick, said at the final predraft meeting "We need to rethink this." The scouts weighed in again. This time, they elevated Couturier a spot or two and, lo and behold, Homer picked Couturier.

No one has ever second-guessed it because it worked out fine (although Brodin has been a very good defenseman for Minnesota, albeit not a big point producer). Really, though, it wasn't all that different than Hexy leapfrogging the consensus that Heiskanen/Makar were better available prospects at No. 2 than they consensus felt Patrick would be. And there was plenty of justification for taking Patrick. That one just didn't work out. The biggest difference was, with Couturier, the scouts weighed in again (albeit with some arm-twisting) and got on board whereas the Patrick pick was apparently Hexy/Sarge going with Ron's gut feeling on the pick.

That's all back-story, however. There's a different decision-making chain now, a different GM and a mixed track record so far (jury is still out on the 2019 to 2021 drafts, so I'm referring only to NHL-level moves). Cap-wise, Chuck has been bold and spent to the cap ceiling, but Ron would likely have done the same by 2019-20 himself. Maybe not on the same players. Who knows?

What matters now is what the next steps will be. I am a believer in "judge by what they do, not by what they say".
- bmeltzer

Bill, did Hexy consult w his scouts on Patrick and simply overruled them or did he really just go out on his own and ignore his own people?

If he truly was collaborative and simply did not agree then so be it. If he did not consider the input from his people then that sums up his tenure here and he deserved his fate. He failed.

Hexy said repetitively, you must build through the draft and not trades / free agency. That strategy is fine, but you gotta be at least an A- drafter using that strategy and you absolutely must hit on a number 2 pick. Because of his build via the draft and not great drafting record especially considering the Patrick pick, he ultimately failed here.

Again if he considered his scouts input, but drafted Patrick anyway.. that’s fine. If he did not even consider their input, then that’s an absolute disgrace and inexcusable.

Because this team should NOT be worse. They have good players, maybe they are not a true cup contender but they should have been a playoff team this year. It fell apart this year due to more than just Covid or injuries, and this needs to be rooted out and corrected. I think Fletcher deserves a chance to respond and fix this.
- jd250

So like if someone said eerier they improve by x amount of wins and points. Dont make the playoffs. Is that really improvement?

no they shouldn't have been a playoff team.

I don't know why anyone would be excited for another off season for Fletcher to do the same thing he's done for the last two years. Oh this time, it will be much better.
- MJL

I'm excited because from what I heard in yesterday's presser, and I am going to listen to Jason Myrtetus' podcast today because he is having a 1 on 1 with Fletcher also, I believe Fletcher has his finger on the pulse of this franchise and what it needs to move forward. Now I say this because its completely aligned to what I think, so if you don't agree with me, which I am sure you don't, then you're going to hate what Fletcher wants to do and what he said. But for me the key things were:

1. We need more top-end talent on this team!
2. We need more voices in the room when selecting players in the draft, more player development, more analytics, etc.
3. We need to build through the draft to get top-end talent
4. We have a good core of veterans to build around
5. We need to do a better job of player development
6. We don't need to do a complete rebuild, just an aggressive retool

As you know I am completely aligned to these key points and thus I am excited about the future and to give Fletcher a shot to fix this. If he doesn't have a good deadline and off season, its clear from Scott's comments Fletcher will be fired.

Bill, the Hartnell move worked out simply because Columbus wound up buying out Hartnell and he was on their cap until this season.

We know what they're going to do next. Not the specific moves but what their philosophy is going to be. They said it yesterday. It's been the wrong approach and will remain as such.
- MJL

The Hartnell move didn't work out. Umberger did not help on the ice at basically the identical cap hit for two years, then got bought out. The 2015-16 Flyers were a 96-point playoff team. They could still have used Hartnell that year. And even in his final year in Columbus, when Umberger was being paid 1/3 of his salary on the cap to not play here, at least Hartnell eked out 13 goals and 37 points despite being in Torts' doghouse.

Truth of the matter is that Hexy didn't particularly like having Hartnell in the mix or feel that keep him was conducive to the conditioning/dietary program Ron was implementing here or that he'd be a good influence on getting young players coming into the system to buy into it. Felt Hartsy preferred to go his own way rather than buying in with what Hakstol was trying to do.

The Hartnell for Umberger trade was spun as a cap move. Cap was actually secondary. RJ was always in great shape. Scotty joked about himself and Voracek needing to go to "Fat Camp". Umberger chafed a bit at being on the 4th line while simultaneously taking heat for not scoring anymore; and there was some merit to that complaint but, in all due respect, he was in decline by time he got here.

Do you honestly believe that fans are demanding that he does so? What is there a petition circulating or something that I'm unaware of? Something on Facebook?
- MJL

I do believe they are, I believe they are doing it in a passive aggressive way with such comments like "The fans will be really disappointed if he does not waive".

If after the trade deadline comes and go's and he is still here, there will be much hate directed towards him.

If Ristolainen want to tests the UFA market, he absolutely needs to be dealt ahead of the deadline. Fletcher wants to resign him -- and made that clear yesterday -- and said that's because the team has a need for physical/competitive players as well as adding more high-end skill. I agree with both, and he put Ristolainen in the correct category, too. He's not, and never will be, a "stats" guy. Doesn't mean there's no value there. I think he's done OK. But certainly hasn't addressed what Plan B was for a workaround if Ellis got injured.

To me, it's a matter of cap hit. I'm fine if they want to give him a three-year deal. But not at a higher cap hit than he's already pulling down.

If he moves on, fine. But he's filled a role the Flyers haven't been able to address since Gudas was here, and he's also better when up-ice than Gudas, although not better in the angles/gaps when defending and more prone to gambling.
- bmeltzer

Agree on Risto and his potential future on the Flyers. Obviously Fletch is going to get some offers and won’t be letting Risto continue here if he’s not re-upped before deadline.

I'm excited because from what I heard in yesterday's presser, and I am going to listen to Jason Myrtetus' podcast today because he is having a 1 on 1 with Fletcher also, I believe Fletcher has his finger on the pulse of this franchise and what it needs to move forward. Now I say this because its completely aligned to what I think, so if you don't agree with me, which I am sure you don't, then you're going to hate what Fletcher wants to do and what he said. But for me the key things were:

1. We need more top-end talent on this team!
2. We need more voices in the room when selecting players in the draft, more player development, more analytics, etc.
3. We need to build through the draft to get top-end talent
4. We have a good core of veterans to build around
5. We need to do a better job of player development
6. We don't need to do a complete rebuild, just an aggressive retool

As you know I am completely aligned to these key points and thus I am excited about the future and to give Fletcher a shot to fix this. If he doesn't have a good deadline and off season, its clear from Scott's comments Fletcher will be fired.
- jd250

Yesterday's press conference was embarrassing and a complete disaster. It showed further how dysfunctional this organization is.

Do I have to mention that you are again contradicting yourself. You posted for weeks that they need to break it down and rebuild. Now you are on board with a retool. You change your mind as often as the weather changed.

Frost: Drafted for high-ceiling offensively. Hexy/Sarge pick. The object now is to bring up his all-around game consistency and then add the offense back into it. I personally would prefer it with him swapping spots with Laughton, but it is what it is. Right now, he's about where the Flyers expected him to be a year ago at this time but he did lose a year. Personally, I want more offensive impact from him. It's in there, but he has to bring it out in himself.

Ratcliffe: Flyers traded 3 picks to move up in the second round to take a power forward project they thought would eventually also be a 20-25 goal guy in the NHL. Development path has been slow. Last year was more or less a lost season due to injuries.

Farabee: Well-rounded prospect, so that was the main lure, but they were also high on the offensive upside. He's shown himself to be a good offensive player in the NHL and has good two-way stretches. A bit streaky with both but not to a worrisome level. Hustles, cares, etc. He's worked out. Need him healthy.

O'Brien: Drafted for high-ceiling after tearing about a low-level of competition and having speed/shot/motor tools. Some of those picks click, many don't. I couldn't say what O'Brien is as a prospect right now because of the disastrous freshman season at Providence (injuries were also a significant factor), a BCHL year (also injury affected) while in transfer protocol, a pandemic shortened sophomore year at BU (he played well) and an injury-riddled junior year this season (hot lately, since returning).

Foerster: Drafted for having one of the heaviest shots in 2019 draft class. Underrated passer. The skating and two-way transition to pros were significant question marks. Held his own despite injury last year in (weakened due to NHL Taxi Squad) AHL. This has been a lost season due to shoulder surgery. We'll see how he bounces back. Was struggling early this season due to injury.

Tuomaala: Outstanding speed and offensive tools. Very, very raw and still a bit immature emotionally. High ceiling but no guarantees whatsoever.
- bmeltzer

I know it’s early for some of these guys but as of yet none are hitting their ceiling. Since most top of the roster skaters spend little to no time in the AHL (you wrote a multi part series on it years ago before the cap was even in place I think), the development excuse is a canard. The vast majority of top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen are being developed outside of the team. There is something wrong with the amateur scouting that they can’t recognize special talent and it’s killing this organization. Giroux was drafted in 2006. There’s a big problem that the best flyers players were drafted when Holmgren was either assistant GM or GM. Are there any changes coming to the amateur scouts?

The Hartnell move didn't work out. Umberger did not help on the ice at basically the identical cap hit for two years, then got bought out. The 2015-16 Flyers were a 96-point playoff team. They could still have used Hartnell that year. And even in his final year in Columbus, when Umberger was being paid 1/3 of his salary on the cap to not play here, at least Hartnell eked out 13 goals and 37 points despite being in Torts' doghouse.

Truth of the matter is that Hexy didn't particularly like having Hartnell in the mix or feel that keep him was conducive to the conditioning/dietary program Ron was implementing here or that he'd be a good influence on getting young players coming into the system to buy into it. Felt Hartsy preferred to go his own way rather than buying in with what Hakstol was trying to do.

The Hartnell for Umberger trade was spun as a cap move. Cap was actually secondary. RJ was always in great shape. Scotty joked about himself and Voracek needing to go to "Fat Camp". Umberger chafed a bit at being on the 4th line while simultaneously taking heat for not scoring anymore; and there was some merit to that complaint but, in all due respect, he was in decline by time he got here.
- bmeltzer

Hextall knew that he was trading the better player. It absolutely cleared up cap space for the team. It was inevitable that Hartnell, with the longer term would decline and wind up a buyout candidate. The term itself was a cap move. It was well talked about when the move was made. Hartnell's contract and what the entire NHL knew was a factor in the return.

If Ristolainen want to tests the UFA market, he absolutely needs to be dealt ahead of the deadline. Fletcher wants to resign him -- and made that clear yesterday -- and said that's because the team has a need for physical/competitive players as well as adding more high-end skill. I agree with both, and he put Ristolainen in the correct category, too. He's not, and never will be, a "stats" guy. Doesn't mean there's no value there. I think he's done OK. But certainly hasn't addressed what Plan B was for a workaround if Ellis got injured.

To me, it's a matter of cap hit. I'm fine if they want to give him a three-year deal. But not at a higher cap hit than he's already pulling down.

If he moves on, fine. But he's filled a role the Flyers haven't been able to address since Gudas was here, and he's also better when up-ice than Gudas, although not better in the angles/gaps when defending and more prone to gambling.
- bmeltzer

When it cones to RR the GM clearly has tunnel vision 100%. You do not pay him 2nd pair money. He needs to find better value.

Also I want guys who have been part of some winning culture elsewhere. RR has been on sad sack teams his whole career. This is all he knows. Time to move on.

Bill, you can get a cheap veteran to play physical hockey. The sport is a puck moving skating game now. Ristolainen is the wrong kind of defenseman for today's NHL. If he was a 3rd pair cheap guy, he'd be fine. He's poor in coverage and is not an effective hitter. He rarely hits to take away possession or to break up plays. Most of hits are after the puck has gone and he has taken himself out of the play. He clearly lacks hockey sense. He's not the right player for this team. If they re-sign him, it is just a further indictment on Fletcher.
- MJL

Name vets you can get please as you like to throw that out to other posters when they suggest something.

If Ristolainen want to tests the UFA market, he absolutely needs to be dealt ahead of the deadline. Fletcher wants to resign him -- and made that clear yesterday -- and said that's because the team has a need for physical/competitive players as well as adding more high-end skill. I agree with both, and he put Ristolainen in the correct category, too. He's not, and never will be, a "stats" guy. Doesn't mean there's no value there. I think he's done OK. But certainly hasn't addressed what Plan B was for a workaround if Ellis got injured.

To me, it's a matter of cap hit. I'm fine if they want to give him a three-year deal. But not at a higher cap hit than he's already pulling down.

If he moves on, fine. But he's filled a role the Flyers haven't been able to address since Gudas was here, and he's also better when up-ice than Gudas, although not better in the angles/gaps when defending and more prone to gambling.
- bmeltzer

Flyers need somebody capable of stepping up if Ellis is hurt. RR has proved this season that he's not capable of that. I can't believe Chuck is still hung up on RRs physical impact when he's been on the ice for so many breakdowns and goals against.

And in hindsight, Flyers should have hung on to Gudas. He's playing almost 19mins per night with one of the best teams in the league, at an AAV of $2.5M. A few good months of Niskanen was nice, but ultimately they gave up another effective player to go chasing after unicorns.

Hexy -- whom I like, respect and do not believe should be thrown under the bus -- had strengths and weaknesses as a GM. He also is three years removed.

That being said, Hexy didn't do as well at cap management as some say he did.

The Hartnell-for-Umberger trade really saved almost nothing on the cap for two years, and while Hartnell still had two 20-goal and 50-60 point seasons left in him, RJ was no longer effective and ended up being bought out, spreading the remaining cap residuals over two years. That one didn't work out.

Dale Weise at four years for a $2.35M cap hit didn't work out, on or off the ice.

The Andrew MacDonald contract was a) the first major contract negotiated by Hexy (still the assistant GM at the time officially but already chosen behind the scenes as next GM, and empowered to be the one to negotiate it), and b) MacDonald's open-market value that offseason. Detroit, for one, was prepared to offer almost an identical contract if MacDonald had made it to UFA status. Yes, Holmgren was on board with it and still the GM, but Hexy and Homer were in lockstep on this particular deal. Can't blame one and absolve the other.

It was Hexy who negotiated Jakub Voracek's monster extension. But keep in mind that Voracek had just been in the Art Ross Trophy race (leading it, in fact, for several weeks around midseason) leading up to it. Timing matters a lot on contracts. Also, while Voracek may not have been among the absolute elites of the NHL over the bulk of his Flyers years, he was still a good player.

Hexy's timetable to emerge from the "farm system restock" phase to trying to accelerate the push from being a bubble playoff team to a Cup contender had 2018-19 as the key year to take that step. The team was coming off a 98-point season and had blown a big Game 6 lead against Pittsburgh with a Game 7 within reach. The decision to sign JVR was Hexy's. It made sense at the time -- JVR was coming off his career-best year in Toronto, had been a Flyer before, the team needed a goal-scoring winger and it cost no assets to bring him in. The signing in and of itself hasn't been a disaster, but it hasn't really ever worked out as hoped.

Hexy's biggest mistake that offseason, though, was banking on Brian Elliott and Michal Neuvirth to get healthy. The result was the goalie carousel of 2018-19, and it really hastened the end of both Hexy and Hak.

Draft-wise, I don't want to rehash Patrick in 2017 or the 2014 Draft. In 2014, let us not forget that Hexy was prepared to make a push for the top overall pick and taking Ekblad and it was Florida who got cold feet. As for Sanheim vs Pastrnak, well, there were reasons at the time why Pastrnak was still on the board until 11 spots after the Flyers took Sanheim. There's nothing wrong with drafting a defenseman with all the tools that Sanheim had, nor has it been an unsuccesful pick. He's been a double rather than a home run. It happens.

As far as overruling scouts goes, that's a GMs prerogative. In 2011, the Flyers' scouts' consensus leaned toward Jonas Brodin. Paul Holmgren, having just traded Mike Richards and Jeff Carter for the 8th overall pick, said at the final predraft meeting "We need to rethink this." The scouts weighed in again. This time, they elevated Couturier a spot or two and, lo and behold, Homer picked Couturier.

No one has ever second-guessed it because it worked out fine (although Brodin has been a very good defenseman for Minnesota, albeit not a big point producer). Really, though, it wasn't all that different than Hexy leapfrogging the consensus that Heiskanen/Makar were better available prospects at No. 2 than they consensus felt Patrick would be. And there was plenty of justification for taking Patrick. That one just didn't work out. The biggest difference was, with Couturier, the scouts weighed in again (albeit with some arm-twisting) and got on board whereas the Patrick pick was apparently Hexy/Sarge going with Ron's gut feeling on the pick.

That's all back-story, however. There's a different decision-making chain now, a different GM and a mixed track record so far (jury is still out on the 2019 to 2021 drafts, so I'm referring only to NHL-level moves). Cap-wise, Chuck has been bold and spent to the cap ceiling, but Ron would likely have done the same by 2019-20 himself. Maybe not on the same players. Who knows?

What matters now is what the next steps will be. I am a believer in "judge by what they do, not by what they say".
- bmeltzer

That’s the thing. Hextall did some good things. Hextall also made some mistakes. They all do. I also agree Hextall was in the midst of ramping up the NHL roster when he was fired. Would he have gone after different players in UFA? Probably but who knows.
I couldn’t agree more about what matter now. What is the direction? What’s the plan? I personally don’t think Fletcher is that inept( I hope so anyways), I just don’t think you can come out and say what that plan is. I’m not sure if he decides to re-tool again he’ll actually be able to make the improvements needed, but it’s pretty apparent Scott feels that’s the path they should take.

I'm excited because from what I heard in yesterday's presser, and I am going to listen to Jason Myrtetus' podcast today because he is having a 1 on 1 with Fletcher also, I believe Fletcher has his finger on the pulse of this franchise and what it needs to move forward. Now I say this because its completely aligned to what I think, so if you don't agree with me, which I am sure you don't, then you're going to hate what Fletcher wants to do and what he said. But for me the key things were:

1. We need more top-end talent on this team!
2. We need more voices in the room when selecting players in the draft, more player development, more analytics, etc.
3. We need to build through the draft to get top-end talent
4. We have a good core of veterans to build around
5. We need to do a better job of player development
6. We don't need to do a complete rebuild, just an aggressive retool

As you know I am completely aligned to these key points and thus I am excited about the future and to give Fletcher a shot to fix this. If he doesn't have a good deadline and off season, its clear from Scott's comments Fletcher will be fired.
- jd250

good lord he said everything that was expected. All talk.

No it is not clear he will be fired.

When it cones to RR the GM clearly has tunnel vision 100%. You do not pay him 2nd pair money. He needs to find better value.

Also I want guys who have been part of some winning culture elsewhere. RR has been on sad sack teams his whole career. This is all he knows. Time to move on.
- hello it's me 2050

I hope they do get him signed to what Bill has suggested. He’s a solid, physical 2nd pair d man, that judging by the last decade of watching Flyers hockey aren’t that easy to find. If they can’t then they move him for a decent prospect or a 1rst.

Bill, did Hexy consult w his scouts on Patrick and simply overruled them or did he really just go out on his own and ignore his own people?

If he truly was collaborative and simply did not agree then so be it. If he did not consider the input from his people then that sums up his tenure here and he deserved his fate. He failed.

Hexy said repetitively, you must build through the draft and not trades / free agency. That strategy is fine, but you gotta be at least an A- drafter using that strategy and you absolutely must hit on a number 2 pick. Because of his build via the draft and not great drafting record especially considering the Patrick pick, he ultimately failed here.

Again if he considered his scouts input, but drafted Patrick anyway.. that’s fine. If he did not even consider their input, then that’s an absolute disgrace and inexcusable.
- Joe Nardone

Hexy kept a small inner circle around him. That was 100% his prerogative. He had a lot of faith and trust in Sarge (with good reason, because Chris is sharp). The front end process was the same: scouts did their work throughout the year, had their meetings, came up with their ratings and tried to reach a consensus. But if Ron's own preference was other than the consensus, he trusted his own gut and made decisions accordingly.

And that's fine when it works out (see Homer twisting arms for another round of discussion before Couturier was elevated to the consensus pick over Brodin). When it doesn't work out, there's grumbling about it.

There were scouts who felt disenfranchised under Hexy. Both on the pro and amateur side. But it wasn't like Hexy was a gunslinger, just tossing out everyone else's opinions. Sarge ended up being collateral damage as Hexy's right hand man and Sarge was trusted by Homer and in a position of significant power before Ron got here; managing the scouting operations.

There are all sorts of shades of gray when you dig into the facts, and there are always three sides to every story (with the least heard one being the facts stripped away from differing personal acccounts).

Again, as full disclosure: I liked and still like both Ron and Sarge. Both treated me well. Homer has always been great to me, and still is. And Chuck/Brent are good to me as well. So I really don't have a horse in this race. I don't think anyone is blameless nor, contrary to popular opinion, is any of the above clueless or incompetent. It's a high-stress, high-demand, ultra-competitive business and finger-pointing after disappointment is kind of human nature anyway. No one is immune, including myself.

Hextall knew that he was trading the better player. It absolutely cleared up cap space for the team. It was inevitable that Hartnell, with the longer term would decline and wind up a buyout candidate. The term itself was a cap move. It was well talked about when the move was made. Hartnell's contract and what the entire NHL knew was a factor in the return.
- MJL

Bill just broke down the Hartnell move at great length. According to Bill it was not just a cap move. I’m gonna go w Bill.

Hextall knew that he was trading the better player. It absolutely cleared up cap space for the team. It was inevitable that Hartnell, with the longer term would decline and wind up a buyout candidate. The term itself was a cap move. It was well talked about when the move was made. Hartnell's contract and what the entire NHL knew was a factor in the return.
- MJL

It was also mentioned at the time that Hexy didn't appreciate Hartsy being a wisecracking dumbass too, so it was definitely part of the trade calculus.

Hextall knew that he was trading the better player. It absolutely cleared up cap space for the team. It was inevitable that Hartnell, with the longer term would decline and wind up a buyout candidate. The term itself was a cap move. It was well talked about when the move was made. Hartnell's contract and what the entire NHL knew was a factor in the return.
- MJL

you always forget to mention that your Dad thought RJ could still play and contribute. Liked him as a player. Despite him going to be bought out by Columbus.

the defending is at a sickening level at this point.

Hextall knew that he was trading the better player. It absolutely cleared up cap space for the team. It was inevitable that Hartnell, with the longer term would decline and wind up a buyout candidate. The term itself was a cap move. It was well talked about when the move was made. Hartnell's contract and what the entire NHL knew was a factor in the return.
- MJL

The Hextall defending is really getting old, the guy sucked, it’s in the past, can we just leave it at that?

Hexy kept a small inner circle around him. That was 100% his prerogative. He had a lot of faith and trust in Sarge (with good reason, because Chris is sharp). The front end process was the same: scouts did their work throughout the year, had their meetings, came up with their ratings and tried to reach a consensus. But if Ron's own preference was other than the consensus, he trusted his own gut and made decisions accordingly.


And that's fine when it works out (see Homer twisting arms for another round of discussion before Couturier was elevated to the consensus pick over Brodin). When it doesn't work out, there's grumbling about it.

There were scouts who felt disenfranchised under Hexy. Both on the pro and amateur side. But it wasn't like Hexy was a gunslinger, just tossing out everyone else's opinions. Sarge ended up being collateral damage as Hexy's right hand man and Sarge was trusted by Homer and in a position of significant power before Ron got here; managing the scouting operations.

There are all sorts of shades of gray when you dig into the facts, and there are always three sides to every story (with the least heard one being the facts stripped away from differing personal acccounts).

Again, as full disclosure: I liked and still like both Ron and Sarge. Both treated me well. Homer has always been great to me, and still is. And Chuck/Brent are good to me as well. So I really don't have a horse in this race. I don't think anyone is blameless nor, contrary to popular opinion, is any of the above clueless or incompetent. It's a high-stress, high-demand, ultra-competitive business and finger-pointing after disappointment is kind of human nature anyway. No one is immune, including myself.
- bmeltzer

Appreciate it. This confirms what was reported at the time and what many of us remember and still think today.

Couldn't the Flyers kind of do what the Avs did in their retool/rebuild. The Avs moved guys like Duchense and O'Reilly. Built around Mackinnon, landeskog, Ratannen and johnson and then drafted Maker.

I am not saying the Flyers are in the exact position but they could kind of follow that blueprint.

You get a high pick this year and get someone like Wright, Savoie, Geekie or Lambert. You move Giroux for a 1st rounder and close prospect. You move Risto if he wants test the market. You try to find a place for JVR. I think you look at Konecny and see what he brings in.

It seems like fantasy hockey but I think you can you to do this to retool/rebuild your team for next year. I know they said they want it done for next year but maybe it takes 2 or 3 years.

I don't know. I am just a armchair gm

you always forget to mention that your Dad thought RJ could still play and contribute. Liked him as a player. Despite him going to be bought out by Columbus.

the defending is at a sickening level at this point.
- hello it's me 2050

I hope they do get him signed to what Bill has suggested. He’s a solid, physical 2nd pair d man, that judging by the last decade of watching Flyers hockey aren’t that easy to find. If they can’t then they move him for a decent prospect or a 1rst.
- landros 2

Well this is where we disagree. He is not a solid top 4 guy to me. I fully expect the GM to overpay if he resigns him. Part of me cant wait to be honest.

You do not win or contend with RR being a key member of your D unit imo.