Konecny, Frost and Sanheim were all known as 200 foot players?
- MJL

and rubstov and obrien and farabee if we are looking at first round picks.

not sure what the question is. none of the players listed are elite.

No I don't pick and choose what I want to hear. I evaluate everything and come to a conclusion. This franchise has been run the same way with the exception of when Hextall was in charge. With poor results overall since the cap was instituted. It's clear that they need to change. One guy tried to change it. They booted him out went right back to the old way. How is it working? It is crystal clear what the issues are with this organization. It's crystal clear how the teams that are succeeding are run. I don't think Hextall was great or perfect. I think his approach was the correct approach. I think he did a solid job overall and was not given the opportunity to see it through. Which was an obvious mistake.
- MJL

you cant just let it go can you. You must be fun at parties

It's funny all the Ristolainen hate but how about guys like Sanheim and Provorov. As much as love Provorov and think he'll rebound, he hasn't been great. And When is Sanheim going to take a step forward. I feel like that is a bigger issue then what Risto provides. Those two were supposed to be anchors for us and yet I feel like the best defender this year consistently has been Braun.

What I think is a bigger issues is guys who were supposed to help this team forward just haven't been good enough. I put guys like Konecny and Lindblom in there.
- J35Bacher

Provorov has simply been given a ton of responsibility on a bad teams. He's a better player than given credit for. He would be a player the fans would covet if he played on another team.
Sanheim has the tools to be better. I saw a tweet recently that since Yeo took over, Sanheim is 3rd among all defenseman in 5 on 5 points. Sanheim needs to be more consistent and to compete better in the physical areas. It would help both players immensely if the the team could shore up it's team defense.

you cant just let it go can you. You must be fun at parties
- bradster

no wonder he is divorced.

Provorov has simply been given a top of responsibility on a bade teams. He's a better player than given credit for. He would be a player the fans would covet if he played on another team.
Sanheim has the tools to be better. I saw a tweet recently that since Yeo took over, Sanheim is 3rd among all defenseman in 5 on 5 points. Sanheim needs to be more consistent and to compete better in the physical areas. It would help both players immensely if the the team could shore up it's team defense.
- MJL

so do a lot of players. How many more years do you keep waiting? At what point do you except this the player he will be?

RR was also given the responsibility that Ivan was once a upon a time.

Yes, I might have said that at the time in that moment, sure. But over this off season and during this season I have been consistent that a 4 or 5 year rebuild is not needed and I have stated many times why, with specifics, which is something that MJL will never give because he really doesn't have a clue! He's one for telling everyone else they are wrong and making up things they said to throw in their face, but never ONCE has he demonstrated that he has any ability to specifically state what he thinks should be done, NEVER, NOT ONCE!
- jd250

I've never posted what I think should be done? And you call me a liar!

Provorov has simply been given a top of responsibility on a bade teams. He's a better player than given credit for. He would be a player the fans would covet if he played on another team.
Sanheim has the tools to be better. I saw a tweet recently that since Yeo took over, Sanheim is 3rd among all defenseman in 5 on 5 points. Sanheim needs to be more consistent and to compete better in the physical areas. It would help both players immensely if the the team could shore up it's team defense.
- MJL

Just like RR, but RR was in a worse situation. Sanhiem is what a year younger. He does not have the physical tools to battle in the trenches. which is why d men like rr are still in high demand. d men need to defend well first. adding points is very nice and great/elite d men are hard to find. hopefully he continues to improve

Would you say that was a success?
- hello it's me 2050

The early stages seemed promising that it could work -- with some caveats I'll add below -- but the answer is no if you look at where the team has been from 2018-19 to 2021-22 (with 2019-20 being the outlier season, and a curiosity because it wasn't a fluke that year; not when you're top seven in GPG, GAA and No. 1 in fewest shots per game allowed).

The caveats are this: In 2017-18, when Ron only added Mrzek, he was still within the window where Provorov and Konecny (both 2nd year NHLers) were still on their entry-level deals. Lindblom and Sanheim were rookies on entry-level deals. Giroux turned 30 midseason and was having a career year. Couturier turned 25 in December and was having his breakout season (31 goals, 76 points, Selke 1st runner-up). One of two Philly seasons where Ghost was both healthy and productive.

The team didn't get to 98 points by accident. THIS was the time to get more aggressive in looking to add another high-end vet or two or a vet position player and a more reliable goalie than Mrazek.

That Pittsburgh series was actually winnable if the Flyers had a few more pieces. The Penguins steamrolled the Flyers in a couple games (and the Flyers deserved to lose Game 5 but won it) but, overall, Pittsburgh really didn't play all that great over the six games. They were beatable. Just not by the Flyers. Another piece or two might have gotten them past the Penguins.

It was after that season that Ron decided there was enough in place to try to add a scoring winger (JVR) through unrestricted free agency. But he made a huge mistake in running back an intended Elliott/Neuvirth duo with neither goalie healthy. That truly sunk the next season among other factors. And it contributed on the hockey side to Hexy, Sarge and Hak being out.

Hindsight is always 20/20. But the Flyers ended up losing Giroux and Voracek's primes to the restock -- Ron was banking on Giroux and Voracek still being valuable contributors into their 30s, which they have been, but it was also predicated on a succession plan at the top of the lineup and with Provorov becoming a Norris caliber defenseman and projected. That's where it's come up short: there are no Hart Trophy or Norris Trophy types who've emerged from the restock.

Sanheim is an odd case where the advanced stats say one thing and the eye test says something else.
- MBFlyerfan

It's a funny situation with the Flyers. For many, the eye test tends to focus on the negative plays. When a team is dysfunctional like the Flyers are. You have to determine which players are the cause of it and which players are victims of it.

The early stages seemed promising that it could work -- with some caveats I'll add below -- but the answer is no if you look at where the team has been from 2018-19 to 2021-22 (with 2019-20 being the outlier season, and a curiosity because it wasn't a fluke that year; not when you're top seven in GPG, GAA and No. 1 in fewest shots per game allowed).

The caveats are this: In 2017-18, when Ron only added Mrzek, he was still within the window where Provorov and Konecny (both 2nd year NHLers) were still on their entry-level deals. Lindblom and Sanheim were rookies on entry-level deals. Giroux turned 30 midseason and was having a career year. Couturier turned 25 in December and was having his breakout season (31 goals, 76 points, Selke 1st runner-up). One of two Philly seasons where Ghost was both healthy and productive.

The team didn't get to 98 points by accident. THIS was the time to get more aggressive in looking to add another high-end vet or two or a vet position player and a more reliable goalie than Mrazek.

That Pittsburgh series was actually winnable if the Flyers had a few more pieces. The Penguins steamrolled the Flyers in a couple games (and the Flyers deserved to lose Game 5 but won it) but, overall, Pittsburgh really didn't play all that great over the six games. They were beatable. Just not by the Flyers. Another piece or two might have gotten them past the Penguins.

It was after that season that Ron decided there was enough in place to try to add a scoring winger (JVR) through unrestricted free agency. But he made a huge mistake in running back an intended Elliott/Neuvirth duo with neither goalie healthy. That truly sunk the next season among other factors. And it contributed on the hockey side to Hexy, Sarge and Hak being out.

Hindsight is always 20/20. But the Flyers ended up losing Giroux and Voracek's primes to the restock -- Ron was banking on Giroux and Voracek still being valuable contributors into their 30s, which they have been, but it was also predicated on a succession plan at the top of the lineup and with Provorov becoming a Norris caliber defenseman and projected. That's where it's come up short: there are no Hart Trophy or Norris Trophy types who've emerged from the restock.
- bmeltzer

I meant more so in terms of restocking the farm system, was that a success? Appreciate your insight as always.

To this day never understood why he rolled with those 2 on goal. Was it a case of stubbornness or I am smarter than everyone? Who knows.

The early stages seemed promising that it could work -- with some caveats I'll add below -- but the answer is no if you look at where the team has been from 2018-19 to 2021-22 (with 2019-20 being the outlier season, and a curiosity because it wasn't a fluke that year; not when you're top seven in GPG, GAA and No. 1 in fewest shots per game allowed).

The caveats are this: In 2017-18, when Ron only added Mrzek, he was still within the window where Provorov and Konecny (both 2nd year NHLers) were still on their entry-level deals. Lindblom and Sanheim were rookies on entry-level deals. Giroux turned 30 midseason and was having a career year. Couturier turned 25 in December and was having his breakout season (31 goals, 76 points, Selke 1st runner-up). One of two Philly seasons where Ghost was both healthy and productive.

The team didn't get to 98 points by accident. THIS was the time to get more aggressive in looking to add another high-end vet or two or a vet position player and a more reliable goalie than Mrazek.

That Pittsburgh series was actually winnable if the Flyers had a few more pieces. The Penguins steamrolled the Flyers in a couple games (and the Flyers deserved to lose Game 5 but won it) but, overall, Pittsburgh really didn't play all that great over the six games. They were beatable. Just not by the Flyers. Another piece or two might have gotten them past the Penguins.

It was after that season that Ron decided there was enough in place to try to add a scoring winger (JVR) through unrestricted free agency. But he made a huge mistake in running back an intended Elliott/Neuvirth duo with neither goalie healthy. That truly sunk the next season among other factors. And it contributed on the hockey side to Hexy, Sarge and Hak being out.

Hindsight is always 20/20. But the Flyers ended up losing Giroux and Voracek's primes to the restock -- Ron was banking on Giroux and Voracek still being valuable contributors into their 30s, which they have been, but it was also predicated on a succession plan at the top of the lineup and with Provorov becoming a Norris caliber defenseman and projected. That's where it's come up short: there are no Hart Trophy or Norris Trophy types who've emerged from the restock.
- bmeltzer

No doubt that relying on that goalie tandem was a big mistake by Hextall. I can't remember all the details about it though.

No doubt that relying on that goalie tandem was a big mistake by Hextall. I can't remember all the details about it though.
- MJL

You can’t think of a way to defend it at the moment haha

You can’t think of a way to defend it at the moment haha
- ClaudeFather

But he did, he cant remember all the details lets his Dad off the hook somewhat.

The Flyers needed a few more pieces during that time period?

How was Hextall gonna add those pieces with the salary cap?

If via trade, then what valuable players would he have to give up?

The Flyers needed a few more pieces during that time period?

How was Hextall gonna add those pieces with the salary cap?

If via trade, then what valuable players would he have to give up?
- Captain_Ahab

well....he signed JVR for 7 mil. dale for over 2

he traded schenn....but did not move on simmer ghost or jake.......

Isaac Ratcliffe will make his debut Saturday, wearing # 76.
He's already in great company.

well....he signed JVR for 7 mil. dale for over 2

he traded schenn....but did not move on simmer ghost or jake.......
- Peter Richards

He traded Schenn but took on Lehtera's contract as part of that trade. This move also sent a message that he was building for the future and not gearing up to win now. This helped create a real negative environment for fans and can contribute to a team losing a bit of an edge. Those empty seats and the team taking a nosedive were contributing factor to his firing.

When Hextall was fired, at his press conference, he admitted he felt he was still 2 maybe 3 years away from 'go-time.'

Part of the reason why he held on to Elliot and Nevirth was cap/contracts. If the Flyers wanted to upgrade goaltending, they might have to pay more and/or trade valuable players to bring in another goalie.

Man, I hated the Weise signing. A bottom 6 forward having a 'career year' in a contract year screams stay away.

The Flyers needed a few more pieces during that time period?

How was Hextall gonna add those pieces with the salary cap?

If via trade, then what valuable players would he have to give up?
- Captain_Ahab

They had cap space and, as Toronto and especially Tampa have shown, you can leverage LTIR-bound players for added cap allowance.


Trade wise, seller teams wanted (still want) picks and/or young players from buyers. Hexy wasn't willing to do that for returns of late 20s to early 30 players. And I get it. But he had a window where he had some promising players in the NHL who were still on their ELCs plus his core group in their mid-to-latter 20s.

It's all hindsight, and there was a logic behind it (which is usually what I judge by more than outcome -- show me the thought process). But let's say the Flyers did add a scoring winger and a bonafide goalie upgrade, and got past the Pens in the same kind of series where the Pens were kind of ripe to be knocked off.

It may have bought Hextall more time than 1/4 of an additional season. Who knows?

When Hextall was fired, at his press conference, he admitted he felt he was still 2 maybe 3 years away from 'go-time.' .
- Captain_Ahab

He DID feel that adding JVR to the 98-point group from the previous season could help them take the next step. He said it on the record and I heard off-the-record, too.

The real miscalculation, as I said, was coming back again with Elliott/Neuvirth as the intended tandem again. Neither guy was healthy, Pickard flopped as a stopgap, and the season sunk quickly.

They had cap space and, as Toronto and especially Tampa have shown, you can leverage LTIR-bound players for added cap allowance.


Trade wise, seller teams wanted (still want) picks and/or young players from buyers. Hexy wasn't willing to do that for returns of late 20s to early 30 players. And I get it. But he had a window where he had some promising players in the NHL who were still on their ELCs plus his core group in their mid-to-latter 20s.

It's all hindsight, and there was a logic behind it (which is usually what I judge by more than outcome -- show me the thought process). But let's say the Flyers did add a scoring winger and a bonafide goalie upgrade, and got past the Pens in the same kind of series where the Pens were kind of ripe to be knocked off.

It may have bought Hextall more time than 1/4 of an additional season. Who knows?
- bmeltzer

Lets just say I strongly dislike the NHL salary cap. I wish it could be modified to allow more movement.

No I don't pick and choose what I want to hear. I evaluate everything and come to a conclusion. This franchise has been run the same way with the exception of when Hextall was in charge. With poor results overall since the cap was instituted. It's clear that they need to change. One guy tried to change it. They booted him out went right back to the old way. How is it working? It is crystal clear what the issues are with this organization. It's crystal clear how the teams that are succeeding are run. I don't think Hextall was great or perfect. I think his approach was the correct approach. I think he did a solid job overall and was not given the opportunity to see it through. Which was an obvious mistake.
- MJL

I agree with this. I’ll take it further. Clarke and Holmgren were always about and in on the “blockbuster” deals. Fletcher seems to be the same way except Ellis and Rostolainen aren’t stars or superstars. So we’re shoveling out assets and killing our future for “really good” role players (depending on who you ask).

What was interesting from Scott. All the players he mentioned as part of the “core” have next to no trade value and are practically immovable (except for farabee). Coots, Hayes, Ellis.

No mention of provorov, konecny, even Atkinson, sanheim, hart( I think an omission)

Coupled with fletchers quote saying everything is on the table, I would expect that 2nd group of players to be on the market this summer in exchange for draft capital and close to ready prospects.

And he is right to be thinking this way. Provorov, konecny, sanheim. They have value and they are the ones that are going to bring draft/prospect resources that’s going to push this thing

Coyotes to play at ASU for a few years while they wait for a new, as-yet unapproved, arena?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...play-5000-seat-arena-asu/

It's funny all the Ristolainen hate but how about guys like Sanheim and Provorov. As much as love Provorov and think he'll rebound, he hasn't been great. And When is Sanheim going to take a step forward. I feel like that is a bigger issue then what Risto provides. Those two were supposed to be anchors for us and yet I feel like the best defender this year consistently has been Braun.

What I think is a bigger issues is guys who were supposed to help this team forward just haven't been good enough. I put guys like Konecny and Lindblom in there.
- J35Bacher

Spot on.

Coyotes to play at ASU for a few years while they wait for a new, as-yet unapproved, arena?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...play-5000-seat-arena-asu/
- Scoob

Just fold that team ffs