Until Drexel can prove he didn't, I'm on your side.
- Monkeypunk

Cobb may have been corrupt but it was kept hidden and he never was truly found guilty of it.

That’s the difference.
- Dozzer

Neither was Clemons

Yup but he also played when only white guys were allowed in the league.

Should everything from that era be removed due to this?

Yes ball players were racist but in that era just about everyone was. Society was the problem, not just a handful of athletes.
- Dozzer

No, my point is that Clemons and Bonds played at a time when huge numbers of players were using steroids

Neither was Clemons
- Canada Cup

Voting requirements changed in 2014 and he simply never got the 75% required in his ten years

No, my point is that Clemons and Bonds played at a time when huge numbers of players were using steroids
- Canada Cup

And it’s well known when it comes to those two. They should have hid it better.

Yup but he also played when only white guys were allowed in the league.

Should everything from that era be removed due to this?

Yes ball players were racist but in that era just about everyone was. Society was the problem, not just a handful of athletes.
- Dozzer

This is true, but not all athletes or people hung around and partied with friends in nice white outfits with matching masks and pointy hats.

Interesting point about Harold Ballard and his 1977 HHOF induction. Did anyone do more to destroy a great franchise than Ballard? And this POS is in there as a builder? WTF did he build?

Yup, either let them be hit or restrict where they can play physical 100% (the crease alone)
- Dozzer

That's fine then go back to not allowing players in the crease - ever.

Gotta' give us goalies some space of our own we are kind, gentle souls who hate violence.

Game Day! GLf'nG!!

Let's goooo!!!

And it’s well known when it comes to those two. They should have hid it better.
- Dozzer

Ty Cobb was a great player but a racist at a time when lots of players were racist - he’s in.

Bonds was the best player of his generation. Clemons was a dominant pitcher but they were steroid users at a time when there were lots of steroid users. - they’re not in. It was well known that there were lots of players. Baseball didn’t care.

Baseball is just trying to pretend away a problem

This is true, but not all athletes or people hung around and partied with friends in nice white outfits with matching masks and pointy hats.

Interesting point about Harold Ballard and his 1977 HHOF induction. Did anyone do more to destroy a great franchise than Ballard? And this POS is in there as a builder? WTF did he build?
- winsix

I’m not saying I respect an old racist ball player but he got put in there because the owners hid the nasty poop he did since he still holds some of the tigers records.

As for Ballard who knows lol

Ty Cobb was a great player but a racist at a time when lots of players were racist - he’s in.

Bonds was the best player of his generation. Clemons was a dominant pitcher but they were steroid users at a time when there were lots of steroid users. - they’re not in.

Baseball is just trying to pretend away a problem
- Canada Cup

it sucks that Clemens was at his most roidy dominant with the Jays
he was 11.9 WAR and the team won 76 games

That's fine then go back to not allowing players in the crease - ever.

Gotta' give us goalies some space of our own we are kind, gentle souls who hate violence.
- Cush29

Oh no, players can’t enter the crease but that’s when you guys can hit back lol

Ty Cobb was a great player but a racist at a time when lots of players were racist - he’s in.

Bonds was the best player of his generation. Clemons was a dominant pitcher but they were steroid users at a time when there were lots of steroid users. - they’re not in. It was well known that there were lots of players. Baseball didn’t care.

Baseball is just trying to pretend away a problem
- Canada Cup

Bonds and Clemens got caught and Cobb didn’t (yea the team owner helped hide it)

Too bad for the first two but if you do something iffy you don’t get to whine about what happens if you get caught.

From what I've read the general "ask" is ..

Chycrhun = 3 good young assets
Severson = 2 good young assets (like a Muzzin deal)
Chiarot = 1 good young asset
- The Law

Being 2 years younger makes him a little more expensive imo. Muzzin took a 1st, NHL ready decent prospect and a recent 2nd round pick draft pick with potential.

Plus the NJD aren't in a tear down like the Kings were.

A comparable deal with todays pieces would be 2022 1st, Steeves, Hirvonen. Not enough for Severson.

Be closer to the deadline before most teams consider moving players for sure. Especially the Islanders. And a lot in the west. Can't see the Isles making it this year, as I don't see any of the top 8 falling off that much till end of season.

Just me spitballin'.

Ty Cobb set a pretty high moral bar for entry to the HOF
- Canada Cup

As I understand it, much of what was said about Cobb that was egregious (e.g. racism) was apocryphal bs.

Sounds like he was an bumhole but not an outright bigot. 🤷

Oh no, players can’t enter the crease but that’s when you guys can hit back lol
- Dozzer

Not sure if you made a typo but I'd gladly give up my right to hit a guy ever if the trade off was players could never be in the crease under any circumstances.

*Injects steroids...is still not good as baseball*

And it’s well known when it comes to those two. They should have hid it better.
- Dozzer

Never proven for either of them.

IIRC, neither of them flunked a drug test (I think that Clemons may have tested positive for something that they didn't disclose, prior to steroids being illegal).

Which was my point when I asked this question this morning - is it fair to hold steroid use against guys when it has never been proven that they took steroids?

As I understand it, much of what was said about Cobb that was egregious (e.g. racism) was apocryphal bs.

Sounds like he was an bumhole but not an outright bigot. 🤷
- mjones242

He got caught with some gambling issues for games apparently, it’s why he quit being the player/coach in Detroit and spent his last two seasons with the A’s

Basically the league told him to quit but kept it silent and let him retire himself after 2 more years.

I’m not saying I respect an old racist ball player but he got put in there because the owners hid the nasty poop he did since he still holds some of the tigers records.

As for Ballard who knows lol
- Dozzer

That's surely part of it - I agree. The main reason IMO that Cobb got off the game fixing charges was the first commissioner of Baseball - Judge Landis was his close friend. He was a more famous racist than Cobb - and Jackie Robinson's entry into MLB was only possible after Landis was gone from MLB.

Not sure if you made a typo but I'd gladly give up my right to hit a guy ever if the trade off was players could never be in the crease under any circumstances.
- Cush29

Oh no the crease is the one place a goalie can hit lol

Never proven for either of them.

IIRC, neither of them flunked a drug test (I think that Clemons may have tested positive for something that they didn't disclose, prior to steroids being illegal).

Which was my point when I asked this question this morning - is it fair to hold steroid use against guys when it has never been proven that they took steroids?
- Atomic Wedgie

Only on league tests.

The research that has been done regarding those two by professionals is extremely thorough however

https://www.google.ca/amp...vidence-indisputable/amp/

That's surely part of it - I agree. The main reason IMO that Cobb got off the game fixing charges was the first commissioner of Baseball - Judge Landis was his close friend. He was a more famous racist than Cobb - and Jackie Robinson's entry into MLB was only possible after Landis was gone from MLB.
- winsix

Yup, the league was a very different and sketchy place the first 3 decades or so of the 1900s

I’m not saying I respect an old racist ball player but he got put in there because the owners hid the nasty poop he did since he still holds some of the tigers records.

As for Ballard who knows lol
- Dozzer

At the time, the NHL was the worst old boys' club on earth.

FFS, the head of the players' union was a toady to the owners, when he wasn't stealing money from the players.