The 1919 White Sox, for instance, who threw the World Series - had eight players (including Shoeless Joe Jackson who probably shouldn't be there) who were placed on baseball HoF ineligible list. No one can vote for them.


- Monkeypunk

So keep in mind I know very little about the actual details, other than watching Eight Men Out, and then reading several articles titled "How Accurate is Eight Men Out?" - but to me, Jackson's superior numbers in the series are irrelevant.

Once you accept money to throw a game, you've crossed a line that can't be uncrossed.

I can't really evaluate the case that's sometimes made that he was too mentally undeveloped to fully understand what he was doing when he took the cash - I'll leave that one to the baseball historians.

I do this in beer league (stand at the top of my crease not the stick up thing) to give my Dmen more time and space and I see nothing wrong with it. I'm too lazy to look up the actual rule around players in the "blue paint" but I seem to recall (or maybe I just want it to be this?) that unless the puck is in there they are not allowed to be.

Way too many guys who cut through the blue paint if they can (sometimes to pressure the D behind the net but sometimes to be knobs) for my liking and I always try to ensure the have to go around me if they are trying to which means going around the crease for the most part.

As a goalie it also sucks when some 300 pound forward cuts through the blue paint and turns sharply carving a deep groove in the ice that you then stumble over the rest of the game while trying not to break your ankle.

- Cush29

There's nothing wrong with it. In fact what it does is force skaters to not take a short-cut. The blue is your space and they can't go in there without a reason (pursuit of the puck is the only reason). Skaters cheat all the time and use the blue as a part of their forecheck and even to gain speed on the backcheck. Taking it away is your right.

Being out of the crease and just being in a lane is, as Prock says, also not necessarily a problem if you had a reason to be there - then the skater needs to avoid you. You're slowing them up. That's okay. Even small picks when you're behind the net, like slowly skating back into position forces the onrushing skater to slow up so as not to collide with you . . . Belfour, as I think you mentioned, was an f'n master of that . . . but waiting out in the open and hitting the guy as he passes. Yeah, that's not acceptable at all.

ive seen it. a few times already. i dont see this as way over the line. its minor interference at most, that ended very badly.
- prock

The forward never had the puck so yes the hit was flat out illegal.

Also this goalie has a history of doing little dirty hits like this. A suspension won’t surprise me since he has to meet with the NHL today.

lots of goalies make sure they get in a forecheckers lane, and make it look like they're just skating back to their crease. throwing a pick is illegal, its interference. But its not interference if you're just standing your ground and not moving into their lane. Its also legal if throwting a hit is legal (i.e. the opposing player has just gotten rid of the puck).
- prock

Dell threw a hit when he didnt need to. He has a history of this. He moves out, drops the shoulder and hits the player even if that player is trying to avoid him.

ive seen it. a few times already. i dont see this as way over the line. its minor interference at most, that ended very badly.
- prock

The Sens player had no idea it was going to happen and when it did he was so unprepared he wiped out and has injured himself. I don't think Dell had any intention to cause injury and it was a pretty minor case of interference (to me). I'm guessing he gets a fine and that's the end of it.

Belarus TV commentary very excited and aggressive about upcoming Olympic hockey tournament. Sorry my bad. They’re talking about imminent invasion of Ukraine and the west.

https://mobile.twitter.co.../1486300696681066503?s=12
- Canada Cup

So what's Nato gonna do?

IMO if they don't put their foot down, come to an emergency agreement with Ukraine, and actually commit troops, no amount of threats of economic sanctions will stop Russia from invading. Territory is far more scarce than semiconductors.

ive seen it. a few times already. i dont see this as way over the line. its minor interference at most, that ended very badly.
- prock

Agree, it's more about the injury than the hit. This happens every once in a while, and usually it gets a laugh on the highlights or in social media because both parties come out ok. It's not great but it's not particularly dirty.

The Sens player had no idea it was going to happen and when it did he was so unprepared he wiped out and has injured himself. I don't think Dell had any intention to cause injury and it was a pretty minor case of interference (tome). I'm guessing he gets a fine and that's the end of it.
- Cush29

He was well outside the crease and hit a guy without the puck. Illegal.

You may have a little biased opinion for a goalie but trust me this guy is a dirty goaltender and does these dirty little hits rather routinely

So keep in mind I know very little about the actual details, other than watching Eight Men Out, and then reading several articles titled "How Accurate is Eight Men Out?" - but to me, Jackson's superior numbers in the series are irrelevant.

Once you accept money to throw a game, you've crossed a line that can't be uncrossed.

I can't really evaluate the case that's sometimes made that he was too mentally undeveloped to fully understand what he was doing when he took the cash - I'll leave that one to the baseball historians.
- Atomic Wedgie

That's a perfectly valid position, and the primary reason he's still not eligible. The opposing position that he never intended (or understood the ramifications) to throw the games is the counter position. Both positions are really valid, and also moot since Jackson died 70 years ago. He had no kids to satisfy with any change in ruling, so other than optics or to appease some historians, there's no need to change positions on it now.

Agree, it's more about the injury than the hit. This happens every once in a while, and usually it gets a laugh on the highlights or in social media because both parties come out ok. It's not great but it's not particularly dirty.
- 13sundin13

I just re-watched it (again) and am now more of the belief it is dirty and to Dozzer's point and other's Dell may get a game or more.

If you watch Dell's footwork after he dishes the puck but before the contact he stops and actually moves out / further away from the net where he should be going to in order to initiate the contact.

To me that makes it dirty.

He was well outside the crease and hit a guy without the puck. Illegal.

You may have a little biased opinion for a goalie but trust me this guy is a dirty goaltender and does these dirty little hits rather routinely
- Dozzer

Re-watched it and agree and yes I am biased as a goalie! lol

I like the long format of Rogan and he has had some good shows but by bro-sciencing it during a pandemic he has badly soiled himself. It's really unfortunate. For a guy who has access to a plethora of expert opinion he went inexplicably off the rails.
- Zezel

let me guess. you still think he took horse medicine

Also somebody tried to assassinate him right?
- AdamFrench

No, no, no, it was mistaken identity. The dude was trying to kill Sixto David Fernandez.

I had totally forgotten about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...get%20of%20the%20shooting.

Piece of advice for the young kids out there reading this:

If you are going to hire someone to kill somebody, don't involve 11 people.

"On June 18, law enforcement officials identified an eleventh suspect in police custody, Franklin Junior Merán, whom they alleged to have rented one of the vehicles involved in the attack."

Agree, it's more about the injury than the hit. This happens every once in a while, and usually it gets a laugh on the highlights or in social media because both parties come out ok. It's not great but it's not particularly dirty.
- 13sundin13

Dell's a piece of sh!t.
He has a history of cheap shots, there was no need for the hit. He simply does it cause he knows no one is going to hit him.

If you step out of the grease, players should be allowed to give the goalies a little nudge.

Re-watched it and agree and yes I am biased as a goalie! lol
- Cush29

Lol

That goalie just has a history of doing this. A dirty player plain and simple. It’s likely why the league is meeting with him today.

It's becoming a pattern for Dell apparently - this was earlier this month.

As far as a leaf goalie throwing a hit - maybe Cujo on the ref by accident? lol


- Cush29

I'm actually not too fussed about the one you've embedded above - it's a little interferency, as the Predator hasn't touched the puck yet, but I don't really see it as dirty. If he touches the puck first, it's a good, clean hit. Two minutes, but the Predator was chuckling about it.

I just watched the one last night - yeah, that's bad. I'm guessing other goalies in the league are not happy with it.

I would prefer to keep him. but if it were RHD like Severson, who is still 27, and has 1 more year, id do it....you hope he could be extended past that.
- senstroll

I must have missed the memo that said Severson was great. He's all world meh, as far as I concerned . Decent 2nd pairing.

I wouldn't trade Liljegren for him and I very much hope the Leafs agree with that.

Not that it's related, but giving up a 1st and Liljegren is more than has been talked about for Chycrhun and Chychrun is much much better than Severson.

I don't mean throw a hit, so we're clear. What Dell did was WAY over the line. But you'll see goalies just get in the way. Step out of the crease, make a guy go around.
Bump a skater with their ass a little. Goalies who come to mind (looking at a list) are: Mike Smith, Holtby, Markstrom, Quick, Anderson, Lehner . . . you know, as I look through this list of goalies to remind myself who's who of goalies creating interference around the net, I have to admit, it's a diminishing number of goalies who do it, and look at the names I'm initially throwing out - they're all over 30. Martin Jones does it (32) . . . Binnington might be the youngest at 28 I can see on that list of guys who immediately jump out to me as goalies who run some interference around their crease. I think Carter Hutton maybe . . . Tuuka was always protective of his crease - like standing at the lip with the stick up ("This is my space and if you come in here, Ima be swingin' my stick like this so it's not my fault if you get hit") as a block, but not actively really running out-of-the-crease interference . . .

But your point . . . Andersen never really did it. Campbell definitely doesn't. Mrazek is too busy fetching the puck out of the net to run interference . . .
- Monkeypunk

Gibson does it constantly… watch tonight ..

Is it weird that Severson has been "that underrated young an up and coming" RHD for like 7 years?
- AdamFrench

Weird or crazy?

Dell's a piece of sh!t.
He has a history of cheap shots, there was no need for the hit. He simply does it cause he knows no one is going to hit him.

If you step out of the grease, players should be allowed to give the goalies a little nudge.
- Fakepartofme

That particular hit was dirty but it is typically legal for goalies to hit, just illegal to hit a goalie.

I think the league should say goalies can’t be physical unless it’s within the crease.

I don't mean throw a hit, so we're clear. What Dell did was WAY over the line. But you'll see goalies just get in the way. Step out of the crease, make a guy go around.
Bump a skater with their ass a little. Goalies who come to mind (looking at a list) are: Mike Smith, Holtby, Markstrom, Quick, Anderson, Lehner . . . you know, as I look through this list of goalies to remind myself who's who of goalies creating interference around the net, I have to admit, it's a diminishing number of goalies who do it, and look at the names I'm initially throwing out - they're all over 30. Martin Jones does it (32) . . . Binnington might be the youngest at 28 I can see on that list of guys who immediately jump out to me as goalies who run some interference around their crease. I think Carter Hutton maybe . . . Tuuka was always protective of his crease - like standing at the lip with the stick up ("This is my space and if you come in here, Ima be swingin' my stick like this so it's not my fault if you get hit") as a block, but not actively really running out-of-the-crease interference . . .

But your point . . . Andersen never really did it. Campbell definitely doesn't. Mrazek is too busy fetching the puck out of the net to run interference . . .
- Monkeypunk

I laughed.

And then I hated myself for laughing.

This is why Toronto can't have nice things.

Flyers fire sale pending 😃

Possible options:

Konecny 4 x 5.5m
Provorov 4 x 6.75m
Farabee 7 x 5m
Sanheim 2 x 4.675m
Risto 6.4m UFA
Giroux 8.275m UFA

Couturier Hayes and JVR are too expensive

Wow, what a train wreck

Note: Sandin’s bro on Philly 🤔

Lol

That goalie just has a history of doing this. A dirty player plain and simple. It’s likely why the league is meeting with him today.
- Dozzer

Also he sucks. The league can actually deal with poopty players being dirty. Good players can move along.

Dell's a piece of sh!t.
He has a history of cheap shots, there was no need for the hit. He simply does it cause he knows no one is going to hit him.

If you step out of the grease, players should be allowed to give the goalies a little nudge.
- Fakepartofme

I've said this before. There's a series of events and timeline sequences that led to a bunch of questionable decisions.

What used to happen when goalies got hit? Bench clearing brawls, that's what. The NHL wanted that to stop. So they instituted automatic 10 game suspensions and goalie interference penalties, and for good measure - not directly related to this, but in-line with these vigilante behaviours, they also instituted instigator penalties.

Who was super-good at handling the puck and was like always having a 6th skater in the D-zone? Martin Brodeur, that's who. And he was doubly good because you couldn't hit him or you'd get a goaltender interference penalty, or suspended.

So what did the NHL do? They drew a trapezoid and said goalies could only touch the puck there, but not in the corners. Like among the dumbest rules in all of hockey.

The easy answer was to say to a goalie: Look if you want to go play the puck, you are becoming a skater and will be subject to the rules of a skater. Be sure you can safely play the puck and return to your crease, because while you still can't _legally_ be charged or hit from behind or tripped, you can be body checked and in that giant panda suit you're wearing, you're gonna fall down and look like a racing mascot in the intermission as you try and scramble back to your crease to bask in the glow of the red light above you.

^^ That's the logical and easy answer. They already have instigators, and automatic 10 game suspensions for guys leaving the bench and penalties for people who hit goalies unnecessarily or illegally. Why paint a dumb-assed trapezoid on the ice?

This is my hill. I will die on it.

That particular hit was dirty but it is typically legal for goalies to hit, just illegal to hit a goalie.

I think the league should say goalies can’t be physical unless it’s within the crease.
- Dozzer

I know they can, just not a fan of the they can hit but cant be hit rule.
Even though I played goalie.
(Which I know, doesnt make me an expert)