Add in Morgan Reilly and William Nylander….the leafs have done a very good job adding “elite” talent…I would take their core over Philly’s any day.
- landros 2

Saint Ronnie could have traded Ghost for Nylander.

Only saw parts of the game cause I was called away, but seems like another sub par performance by Frost. He was a -2 on the night and won 2 of 8 faceoffs. Jerry Mayhew looks much better than him, but I didn't realize he was 30 years old. Frost actually had a hit tonight though!! Might as well lose 20 in a row!!
- Phillywhiteout

if you dont witness it, dont make (frank)ing suppositions

How good were Giroux, Atkinson, Konecny, Provorov, Sanheim and Ristolainen last night?
- MJL

G- 1 goal, 9 FW, 8 FL
Sanheim - 2 apples
lindblom - 1 apple
Atkinson - 1 apple
JVR - 1 apple
laughton - 1 apple
Tk - +1
Provy - +1
Risto - nothing

My problem with Sanheim is what is he good at? He can't defend. He can't win puck battles. He can't outmuscle players. And for a player that can skate like he can, he generates very little offense and can't even get out there on the 2nd PP unit on a piss poor team like the Flyers. These are just the facts. I wish they were not true, but they are. Again, people tend to overrate their own players.
- jd250

Like saying Ristolainen is one of the best defenseman in the NHL? Would that be an example? Or how about McEwen makes a huge impact?

I think its time for a reality check here. I like Farabee and TK, and I am on record that I hope the Flyers will keep them. However I think one of the problems we have is we overrate our own players.

Do either of these players look like top 6 players to you?

Farabee: 11g, 7A, 18 points in 33 games
TK: 7G, 17A, 24 points in 41 games

And is this the definition of a top paring defenseman?

Provorov: 5G, 11A, 16 points -8 in 40 games

Hart I give you, he has played very well but the team in front of him is awful!
- jd250

Do the numbers they have put up in recent past seasons have no bearing? Or is this strictly a what have you done for me lately argument?

Okay, up until this post, reading this thread has been terrible - same stuff from the same people that we read every day. That right there made me chuckle.
- Scoob

Kind of like the same stuff from the same franchise every season.

G- 1 goal, 9 FW, 8 FL
Sanheim - 2 apples
lindblom - 1 apple
Atkinson - 1 apple
JVR - 1 apple
laughton - 1 apple
Tk - +1
Provy - +1
Risto - nothing
- WhiskeyMan

So overall, including defensively, you think they were all good last night? Who cost the Flyers the game? Jones? Mayhew?

The mistake fans make is not considering the situation that they play in. If Provorov was moved to a good team, fans would be complaining why wasn't he that good here. This team is poorly coached and the organization is dysfunctional.
- MJL

Are you saying that good players only put up good numbers when they play on good teams?

[quote=bmeltzer]
Bill, honestly, how hard is it going to be to get out of this mess? How many years will it take to actually be a good hockey team again?

I can tolerate stretches like this on a rebuilding team, but this middling and mediocre team they have been the last decade has been brutal.

It is only pure entertainment if you like things that embitter fans. As for goalie prospects, time will tell. Fedotov and Ersson seem to have really high ceilings. Both have put up great numbers in the leagues where they played. Sandstrom seems more like a serviceable starter but who knows. Hart is kind of a wild card. He is a little peaks and valleys but I really like him and think the compete level is very high. With the train wreck of a team that has glaring defensive lapses on a routine basis, it can be hard to figure out what is his fault and what is not (at least sometimes). He is not someone I would bet against.
- iamscore2day

Hart is an NHL goalie. Wasnt referencing him.

Sandstrum looks like a backup to me; which is fine. The others have not proven anything yet in any way. Need to do it in NA. Will Fedotov ever even come over? "Usti" is not a legit NHL prospect.

Best of the bunch may be the 19 year old Russian they just drafted.

Enough if enough. These MIN Wild alumni club dip poops have no idea what they're doing.

🎶 Fletcher, Flahr, Yeo... they've got to go! 🎶

Time to give Carolina a call... bring Eric Tulsky home... give somebody who actually has a clue a shot.
- Tomahawk

hes my guy

Then what was his plan, he signs a guy like JVR, that’s taking a step forward and making any further drafting worse based on position. He hadn’t drafted any impact players, where were they coming from? Was he going to wait 5 years to find out that Morgan Frost stinks. He had plenty of opportunity to draft good players, he wasn’t able to. The blunder at #2 will never be forgotten. The re-build on the fly was a horrible idea and it proved to be in reality as well.
- ClaudeFather

Fans don't want to accept that it takes a lot of time to recover from the situation that Hextall was put into. It took over 3 years to build up the prospect base and clean up the cap. Stating that Hextall was not able to draft good players is simply false. It wasn't a rebuild on the fly. It was a refusal to tank. Frost doesn't stink. Here we are 8+ years since Hextall was hired. We're still waiting! What don't fans get?

Like saying Ristolainen is one of the best defenseman in the NHL? Would that be an example? Or how about McEwen makes a huge impact?
- MJL

Well, I never said that Risto was one of the best defenseman in the NHL, but I will reiterate for a time this year he was the Flyers best defenseman. Now unfortunately Risto has gone down with the rest of the ship. And MacEwen does make an impact, he busts his butt every single time he is on the ice, and if more players on this team played as hard as MacEwen, I don't think we would be in the midst of the 13 game losing streak. Unfortunately last night MacEwen, like Frost did in the 3rd, made a bad clearing attempt and took a penalty that lead to the Islanders taking the lead 3-2. You want to kill the guy for making that mistake, jump on in, the water is warm!

Are you saying that good players only put up good numbers when they play on good teams?
- jd250

I'm saying that good players who are not elite, including Claude Giroux cannot overcome the team deficiencies that they have.

Well, I never said that Risto was one of the best defenseman in the NHL, but I will reiterate for a time this year he was the Flyers best defenseman. Now unfortunately Risto has gone down with the rest of the ship. And MacEwen does make an impact, he busts his butt every single time he is on the ice, and if more players on this team played as hard as MacEwen, I don't think we would be in the midst of the 13 game losing streak. Unfortunately last night MacEwen, like Frost did in the 3rd, made a bad clearing attempt and took a penalty that lead to the Islanders taking the lead 3-2. You want to kill the guy for making that mistake, jump on in, the water is warm!
- jd250

Yes, you did state that Ristolainen was one of the best defenseman in the NHL. Repeatedly.
McEwen does not make an impact. You mistake hustle and playing hard with making an impact. You can do that and not be a good player. He isn't.

Fans don't want to accept that it takes a lot of time to recover from the situation that Hextall was put into. It took over 3 years to build up the prospect base and clean up the cap. Stating that Hextall was not able to draft good players is simply false. It wasn't a rebuild on the fly. It was a refusal to tank. Frost doesn't stink. Here we are 8+ years since Hextall was hired. We're still waiting! What don't fans get?
- MJL

Hextall cleaned up the cap, and then went on to spend it on JVR and Dale Weise. Are you actually going to defend these horrible FA signings when I thought his goal was to build up the farm system and free up cap space???

My problem with Sanheim is what is he good at? He can't defend. He can't win puck battles. He can't outmuscle players. And for a player that can skate like he can, he generates very little offense and can't even get out there on the 2nd PP unit on a piss poor team like the Flyers. These are just the facts. I wish they were not true, but they are. Again, people tend to overrate their own players.
- jd250

When he’s using his stick and reach to defend he becomes a decent defender in his own end. He has elite level skating when he chooses to use it. He has the ability to jump into the offensive zone, but we just don’t see it enough. I leave the arena thinking there’s more there…after almost everyone of their games. But at this point I just don’t think it will ever happen

Hextall failed because he tried to rebuild and compete at the same time which is a flawed plan. It’s not just that the players picked in the middle of the 1st round are typically not as good as the ones at the top but that they usually require more developmental time. That pushes the timeline further into the future and also pushes the currently players on the roster out of their prime years. Add to his over reliance on AHL seasoning instead of giving young guys significant minutes at the NHL level to hasten the learning curve and you have a long rebuild.

The other issue with the compete a little rebuild a little rebuild is believing the rest of the league remains static. In reality by the time the teams in front in the standings start to decline, teams worse than the Flyers at the start of the rebuild end up surpassing them because they are choosing higher quality players at the top of the draft and at the top of each subsequent round. Toronto and Hextall’s Flyers started their rebuild the same year. Yes Toronto hasn’t won a playoff series with that group yet but what team would you rather buy a ticket to see? Carolina and Florida were two other teams below the Flyers when Hextall took over.

Hextall’s plan was flawed to begin with. Add a big bust rate of draft picks and that’s why the Flyers are in the dumpster. A proper rebuild however shouldn’t take 10 years to put an exciting product on the ice. The Flyers have enough middle of the roster talent already. They just need top line players. A quick drop to the bottom over the next two to three seasons and this could be turned around if they pick the right players.
- psuhockey

Couldnt agree more

Hextall cleaned up the cap, and then went on to spend it on JVR and Dale Weise. Are you actually going to defend these horrible FA signings when I thought his goal was to build up the farm system and free up cap space???
- jd250

Hextall did clear up the cap. Weise was an overall poor signing. JVR gave the Flyers some decent years but it now looks like they'll be stuck with him for another year. Mediocre signing overall.

Do you still think a team will take JVR this off season as you have repeatedly said?

Yes, you did state that Ristolainen was one of the best defenseman in the NHL. Repeatedly.
McEwen does not make an impact. You mistake hustle and playing hard with making an impact. You can do that and not be a good player. He isn't.
- MJL

Again, you can lie about it all you want, but I never stated or even thought for a moment Risto was the best defenseman in the NHL. PERIOD!

What do you think MacEwen is exactly? I think he is a waiver wire pickup that is a competent 4th line energy guy that can add a physical element to a team. I have proper expectations of a player that plays about 8 minutes a game. Not sure what you think he is or what you expect. One of the biggest problems on this team is our top players are not top players in this league and thus they cannot finish plays and give this team a chance to win a game. MacEwen is not the cause of this problem!

Hextall cleaned up the cap, and then went on to spend it on JVR and Dale Weise. Are you actually going to defend these horrible FA signings when I thought his goal was to build up the farm system and free up cap space???
- jd250

And negotiated the Andrew Macdonald deal…not to pile on…

Again, you can lie about it all you want, but I never stated or even thought for a moment Risto was the best defenseman in the NHL. PERIOD!

What do you think MacEwen is exactly? I think he is a waiver wire pickup that is a competent 4th line energy guy that can add a physical element to a team. I have proper expectations of a player that plays about 8 minutes a game. Not sure what you think he is or what you expect. One of the biggest problems on this team is our top players are not top players in this league and thus they cannot finish plays and give this team a chance to win a game. MacEwen is not the cause of this problem!
- jd250

Multiple times you said it!


I love when posters bring up a player like McEwen and then if you reply about that player. They respond that McEwen is not the cause of this problem. Well he's not the solution either. Lots of bigger problems for sure but when talking about a player you talk about that specific player.

Again, you called out fans for overrating their own players. Pot meet kettle.

Hextall did clear up the cap. Weise was an overall poor signing. JVR gave the Flyers some decent years but it now looks like they'll be stuck with him for another year. Mediocre signing overall.

Do you still think a team will take JVR this off season as you have repeatedly said?
- MJL

I do believe a team will take him, and if not he should be bought out. The problem with the JVR signing is the team didn't need him at that time, they were not ready, and he was the wrong player to spend that kind of money on. He was a liability from day one, and Toronto knew this which is why they let him walk.

Fans don't want to accept that it takes a lot of time to recover from the situation that Hextall was put into. It took over 3 years to build up the prospect base and clean up the cap. Stating that Hextall was not able to draft good players is simply false. It wasn't a rebuild on the fly. It was a refusal to tank. Frost doesn't stink. Here we are 8+ years since Hextall was hired. We're still waiting! What don't fans get?
- MJL

Yet Ronnie's core isn't good enough. Not even close to good enough.

Multiple times you said it!


I love when posters bring up a player like McEwen and then if you reply about that player. They respond that McEwen is not the cause of this problem. Well he's not the solution either. Lots of bigger problems for sure but when talking about a player you talk about that specific player.

Again, you called out fans for overrating their own players. Pot meet kettle.
- MJL

I just stated MacEwen "was a waiver wire pickup that is a 4th line energy guy that adds a physical element to a team". Now take your time, think about it hard, and explain to me how I just overrated Zac MacEwen??? I'll wait ...