would that be tanking? lol
- bradster

You can call it whatever you want. This season is over in terms of the playoffs. To me any team in that situation should look to evaluate young players and get important vets healthy for the next season.

If they are injured they can.
- mickel25

IF

For the flyers or in general. Well holmgren got us to the cup, so that was good. Its a results business and as many might not like the blunders you have to give him credit for getting to the cup. Grabbing pronger was the exact move they needed.

That's how i judge it. People like the shannaplan and dubas.. think that's the way to go, but they might be entertaining to watch, but havent proven anything yet in the playoffs. So i would say that isnt the way to go. Pretty sure if they get bounced the 1st round or two, changes will be happening there.
- bradster

What would you rather have: fine tuning a team which has its core guys like Marner, Matthews, and Nylander and even Tavares or trying forever to even get to that step to begin with and then beginning your process of inevitable fine tuning?

Why?
- hello it's me 2050

Because if they are healthy enough to play they have to be off LTIR.

It becomes cap circumvention.

Great except the Flyers need the two hardest things to get: a #1 right handed defenseman and a #1 center.

What is going to be absolutely ridiculous is it looks like there will be some franchise changing talent at the top of next years draft. The fan base is behind a tank. The team doesn’t need that many more pieces, just the elite ones. The franchise has shown a good ability to draft middle of the roster types. They just need to be bad one more season and they won’t do it because they are delusional. So terrible.
- psuhockey

B/c they are businessmen and its not economically worth their while to go for the cup/contention.

IF
- MBFlyerfan

I think Ellis and Hayes are almost guaranteed to be out for the year. They do not even know what is Ellis' true problem is at this point. Hayes has tried to comeback twice now and failed. Coots will try to be a hero but the org needs to show him the way.

Call the Tampa guys they know how to keep guys hurt for the full regular season.

IF
- MBFlyerfan

Well they are at this time no?

Because if they are healthy enough to play they have to be off LTIR.

It becomes cap circumvention.
- MBFlyerfan

Well they can very easily be deemed not healthy to play. No worries there on that front. Especially Ellis and Hayes.

Someone called Risto stupid for telling a reporter that he thought the Flyers were headed in the right direction. While I also disagree, what is he suppose to say publicly?
- SuperSchennBros

oh....meh

ALL of them did at some point in each draft. Even 24 GM's passed over Pasta.

Hitting on later round picks is pure luck. Yes, the scouts had the guy on their radar, but after multiple rounds and multiple picks, to have a really good player fall in to your lap requires so many moving parts you have no control over. Too many other teams have to pass multiple times.

To say that was the plan all along and is a testament to drafting skill is bullpoop. If you knew he was going to be that good as you claim, why did you wait? Why take the chance he will be picked earlier, even after you had multiple chances to pick him?

Detroit is a perfect example. They got extremely lucky with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. ESPECIALLY when you look at who they drafted earlier in those same drafts. Detroit's drafts in those years SUCKED. If they don't luck out getting those two their fortunes would have been quite different. Don't tell me that was their plan all along. If they thought they would be that good they would have picked them way earlier.

Drafting a star outside the first round is and always will be a crap shoot. There are too many outside factors that teams have no control over to make it any other way.
- MBFlyerfan

Translation: Drafting is skill in the first round, then roulette. Scouts go home, GM picks names from a hat.

It cannot possibly be that Datsyuk was not high enough to be a high round pick, but was still seen as potentially high ceilinged enough to warrant being picked at all, and that credit goes to Wings for spotting that high ceiling.

If Coots, Hayes and Ellis are going to be out for the rest of the year I hope they use that LTIR space to help other teams facilitate deals. They could add picks that way.

The only real thing you can hope is that the money they claimed to have invested in scouting, player development and analytics will lead to a better hit rate on players developing into more skilled NHL players.

That is all I got. Overall what I expected but still somehow disappointed.
- mickel25

I worry about these injuries still being an issue into next season, depending on how they're handled. If Chuck is true to his word, and surgery will be the last option, when is that decided? Did they not learn anything from Hayes' situation?

Scott can give Fletcher piles of money to invest in staff and hope for the best, but who exactly is Chuck hiring? Is it the brightest and best individuals available? Is it former employees? Is it people from struggling organizations such as Buffalo? Cause most of the hires that have been named, all fall into the latter two categories, which isn't promising at all...

Well they can very easily be deemed not healthy to play. No worries there on that front. Especially Ellis and Hayes.
- hello it's me 2050

I get that, but it also has to be true. The way you said regardless, I may have misread that to mean you thought they should be held out and on LTIR no matter what. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant.

What would you rather have: fine tuning a team which has its core guys like Marner, Matthews, and Nylander and even Tavares or trying forever to even get to that step to begin with and then beginning your process of inevitable fine tuning?
- PT21

Id totally have the shannaplan, even if they don't win its entertaining to watch every game. But id also trade marner if they don't advance this year. . Cant have 3 $11M players.......Tavarez should be the one that goes, but it'll be marner. Im curious to see how stubborn they are and see if they bring the same guys back thinking it will work. They are not built for playoff hockey, its pretty simple. Now they may be looking at clutterbuck at the deadline.

I also dont think trading MArner is fine tuning. Thats major surgery

I clicked a random page and saw MJL ripping the team using micro stats and immediately went into cardiac arrest
- PhillySportsGuy

He's evolved, like a Pokemon.

I get that, but it also has to be true. The way you said regardless, I may have misread that to mean you thought they should be held out and on LTIR no matter what. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant.
- MBFlyerfan

Whatever Tampa did with Kucherov two years ago that is what I want the Flyers to do with Ellis, Hayes and Coots.

Whatever Tampa did with Kucherov two years ago that is what I want the Flyers to do with Ellis, Hayes and Coots.
- mickel25

hahaha ya that.

What is Ken Hitchcock up to nowadays? Or did he get hit by cancel culture? Can’t remember.

Whatever Tampa did with Kucherov two years ago that is what I want the Flyers to do with Ellis, Hayes and Coots.
- mickel25

Hold them out for the playoffs?

He's evolved, like a Pokemon.
- Tomahawk

Truly #oneofus

Hold them out for the playoffs?
- PhillySportsGuy

In this case LTIR them until the season ends. Then they will be healthy to golf.

Id totally have the shannaplan, even if they don't win its entertaining to watch every game. But id also trade marner if they don't advance this year. . Cant have 3 $11M players.......Tavarez should be the one that goes, but it'll be marner. Im curious to see how stubborn they are and see if they bring the same guys back thinking it will work. They are not built for playoff hockey, its pretty simple. Now they may be looking at clutterbuck at the deadline.

I also dont think trading MArner is fine tuning. Thats major surgery
- bradster

They made 1 huge mistake. That was the Tavares signing. The money, term, age and position 2c: was completely misaligned with the Shanaplan. It's the usual big market impatient stupidity.

Notice how Avs refrain from signing a guy like Jones and stick to developing their young D? Ditto Canes?

Once Rangers get bounced in the 1st round, which I expect they will, they should be ripe for prying away a guy or two.

The more MJL and you defend hexy, the more i will be into the hexy is so bad porn. The minute you guys/gals admit he wasn't good, is the minute i stop
- bradster

Good that you can see yourself for what you are. That is the first step to recovery. Good luck with that.

In this case LTIR them until the season ends. Then they will be healthy to golf.
- mickel25

Think of the fans though! The fans want to see them hobbling around the ice like zombies in a 6-1 loss!

They made 1 huge mistake. That was the Tavares signing. The money, term, age and position 2c: was completely misaligned with the Shanaplan. It's the usual big market impatient stupidity.

Notice how Avs refrain from signing a guy like Jones and stick to developing their young D? Ditto Canes?

Once Rangers get bounced in the 1st round, which I expect they will, they should be ripe for prying away a guy or two.
- PT21

I agree, even if they got him for $9M might've helped enough, but the $11.....ouch. It will be an interesting off season for them if they lose early. They are a great regular season team.

I am just trying to illustrate what a low probability it is to expect the Flyers to actually build a Stanley cup contender without bottoming out or tanking or full rebuild or whatever words you find acceptable to use. Bill and other anti-tankers had used the fear of getting stuck at the bottom for tens year as an argument against completely overlooking the distinct possibility that a team can get trapped in the mediocre middle for ten years as well as this team currently has been and after listening to the press conference today will still be for the foreseeable future. Both carry the same terrible outcome. I choose tanking for high picks because one that’s what the majority of recent Stanley Cup winning teams have done since the salary cap has been instituted and two because the players at the top of the draft bring near instantaneous excitement back to the fans. Say what you want about the failures of Edmonton and Buffalo but has there been anywhere near the excitement of this fan base in the last 10 years as there was for those two franchises when they drafted McDavid and Eichel. Look at what Matthews has done to the Toronto market even though they haven’t won anything. Ovechkin has brought almost two decades of excitement to Washington since 2006 even with all the playoff failures. Patrick Kane and Toews single handedly revitalized the Chicago market even before they won cups. The Flyers need that type of player and they are overwhelmingly only available at the top of the draft. The retool these bozos are offering will be met with more empty rinks.
- psuhockey

This is quite true. There are exceptions (Letang, Zetterberg, and Point) but the general rule can't be disputed. Having said that, a good nucleus of solid players puts you in a position where one of those guys can come in and push you to the top. Edmonton hit on this with McD and Draisatl but didn't have the other pieces and can't find them. Having said that, not all of these teams "tanked" as some of the outcomes were a natural progression of aging out or other circumstances. 100% support the "bozo" read on our FO. Very ugly.