Yep. It also has another name, taking away time and space.......... With some support taking away time and space creates turnovers which often times creates scoring chances.
- Mr Ricochet

The Hawks do a good job getting in each others way though, there is that!!

did they have soccer guys consulting them too?
- LAHawk

Knowing Rocky and his Boy promoted and extended StanBow for his fine work last offseason is it possible "the soccer guys" are a Hawk fan's very very very very very best hope??????????????????

For that matter so does Nashville
- LAHawk

On paper, Nashville doesn't look great. Is it a combination of Hynes, Saros and a highly mobile D led by Josi that's piling up the wins?

Maybe we can replicate that a few years from now with fill-in-the-blank coach, Comesso, a highly mobile defense of Allen, Mitchell, Beaudin, Kalynuk led by Jones?

The Hawks do a good job getting in each others way though, there is that!!
- LAHawk

Something I've perfected the last decade or so.

Knowing Rocky and his Boy promoted and extended StanBow for his fine work last offseason is it possible "the soccer guys" are a Hawk fan's very very very very very best hope??????????????????
- Mr Ricochet

I thought I read on here that the Gurus are not telling Rocky who to hire, just teaching everyone how to run a good front office. If so, what's stopping Rocky from hiring his President and GM now, if the Gurus aren't telling them who to hire? Why not hire them now and teach them the Soccer Magic later?

Good post, Ogi. I agree that they need impact players all over the ice. The only no doubt top six players are Cat and Kane. Hopefully Lukas is another. That's well short of what they need.

To get more, they need to get a high pick, take chances on 2nd round picks who drop on draft day, get very lucky with a college FA, find a gem in Europe, fleece another team for a prospect, or go the UFA route.

Gonna take some time, even if everything goes well.

In the meantime, the best thing to do as fans is to hyperventilate about the current state of affairs and get pissed off when a bad team plays like it.
- mohel

Indeed, add they need to be able to evaluate and develop. They need a GROUP who can look at a Borgstrom for instance and know if he's an NHLer and then properly develop the player to their ceiling if he is. Not keep a fringe NHLer expecting him to develop into a top 6 guy when he's not wasting a few yrs in the process. .......... Simple blocking and tackling as an organIzation if you will.

Then add a bunch of luck and the Hawks might win a couple rds in the playoffs.

I thought I read on here that the Gurus are not telling Rocky who to hire, just teaching everyone how to run a good front office. If so, what's stopping Rocky from hiring his President and GM now, if the Gurus aren't telling them who to hire? Why not hire them now and teach them the Soccer Magic later?
- mohel

I've read your soccer guru comments for some weeks now and understand that's your new schtick, Mo. I've also seen your comprehension over the yrs and know you know better, Mo.

I'm also very surprised you did not listen to the Marek and Friedman interview with Mike Forde of Sportsology seeing as how important the next FO hires are to the organIzation. Cuz if you had you would not have made the above post.

As to Dach, I wonder how much coaching and watching video will improve his skills such as driving toward the net instead of the perimeter with the puck, skating into opponents instead of around them to retrieve pucks, lifting passes up so they are above the opponent's sticks, again driving toward the net without the puck and blocking the goalie's vision instead of standing on the side of the net?
- Popsghostly

I've been as big a backer for Dach, and still am, as anyone but watching him now as compared to the bubble v EDM a couple yrs back I have to admit at best his development has stagnated and probably regressed.

I guess I could give my amateur opinion how to fix him but the developmental plan they have for him now is simply not working and maybe, probably(?), they are screwing the kid up.

We all hope for a 1st rd pick, trade for some prospects and picks in hopes they are top 6 NHLers but in Dach the organIzation has at worst a bonafide 2C right now. They need to develop this possible elite asset properly. ........ I think this is my new phrase, the Hawk organIzation lacks the ability to tackle and block properly. There is no organIzational fundamentals.

On paper, Nashville doesn't look great. Is it a combination of Hynes, Saros and a highly mobile D led by Josi that's piling up the wins?

Maybe we can replicate that a few years from now with fill-in-the-blank coach, Comesso, a highly mobile defense of Allen, Mitchell, Beaudin, Kalynuk led by Jones?
- Popsghostly

How many yrs, decades, has watching NSH been like sitting in a dentist's chair? Now this team plays fast and man they get on the body, knock people down and pressure the puck all over the ice.

Not only are they a fun watch but are a fine example of how systems and a culture can change in a couple/few yrs. ..... LA too. Big heavy structured teams, and they won cups that way, back then now they play a hair on fire speed game.

I've been as big a backer for Dach, and still am, as anyone but watching him now as compared to the bubble v EDM a couple yrs back I have to admit at best his development has stagnated and probably regressed.

I guess I could give my amateur opinion how to fix him but the developmental plan they have for him now is simply not working and maybe, probably(?), they are screwing the kid up.

We all hope for a 1st rd pick, trade for some prospects and picks in hopes they are top 6 NHLers but in Dach the organIzation has at worst a bonafide 2C right now. They need to develop this possible elite asset properly. ........ I think this is my new phrase, the Hawk organIzation lacks the ability to tackle and block properly. There is no organIzational fundamentals.
- Mr Ricochet

Ricco, I have no confidence this will happen until more front office changes were made. Who is KD's brain trust? Stewart and Eaton? They have been with the Hawks throughout this slide, and have been promoted to where they are now. I am sure they are giving him the same advice they gave Bowman. Now they want to sell off the pieces that they were excited to acquire? Or are they saying, the pieces are there, just need a few tweeks, we "like our team" in bowman speak.

I've read your soccer guru comments for some weeks now and understand that's your new schtick, Mo. I've also seen your comprehension over the yrs and know you know better, Mo.

I'm also very surprised you did not listen to the Marek and Friedman interview with Mike Forde of Sportsology seeing as how important the next FO hires are to the organIzation. Cuz if you had you would not have made the above post.
- Mr Ricochet

I have a confession to make, Rico. I have been involved with outside consultants probably 10+ times. They are 1-9. They never know as much about the business as those who do it every day. They are almost always brought in to tell the big cheese what s/he (apologies for the binary pronoun) wants to hear. They are almost always the result of a management failure; and almost never correct that issue. There is not one Secret Sauce management style that produces titles. The Soccer Gurus are there for marketing reasons. Just my take, and I will absolutely love it if they succeed.

I've been as big a backer for Dach, and still am, as anyone but watching him now as compared to the bubble v EDM a couple yrs back I have to admit at best his development has stagnated and probably regressed.

I guess I could give my amateur opinion how to fix him but the developmental plan they have for him now is simply not working and maybe, probably(?), they are screwing the kid up.

We all hope for a 1st rd pick, trade for some prospects and picks in hopes they are top 6 NHLers but in Dach the organIzation has at worst a bonafide 2C right now. They need to develop this possible elite asset properly. ........ I think this is my new phrase, the Hawk organIzation lacks the ability to tackle and block properly. There is no organIzational fundamentals.
- Mr Ricochet

I, personally, would appreciate your opinion on fixing Dach. We're all amateurs here, but I respect your take on such matters.

On paper, Nashville doesn't look great. Is it a combination of Hynes, Saros and a highly mobile D led by Josi that's piling up the wins?

Maybe we can replicate that a few years from now with fill-in-the-blank coach, Comesso, a highly mobile defense of Allen, Mitchell, Beaudin, Kalynuk led by Jones?
- Popsghostly

Time to trade for Chychurin

Time to trade for Chychurin
- BetweenTheDots

Can't do that, Dots. He was rushed into a fulltime NHL job on a crap team at a mere 18 years old. He's ruined. He's a -31, in 29 games this year. He's on pace for a -77 in a full season. I am no cardiologist, but I don't think your ticker can take it.

I thought I read on here that the Gurus are not telling Rocky who to hire, just teaching everyone how to run a good front office. If so, what's stopping Rocky from hiring his President and GM now, if the Gurus aren't telling them who to hire? Why not hire them now and teach them the Soccer Magic later?
- mohel

Fearing writing 14 paragraphs on this this has been on my mind. I watched the Mighty Steel turn into a powerhouse that had missed the playoffs for 8 straight yrs, so much so Canadian writers equate the organIzation with the London Knights as the best jr franchises on earth. .... And ask any Canadian how protective the Canadian press is of Major Junior. Beyond high praise.

Steel lost in the conference playoffs, had a great team, Ryan Hardy is hired as GM and fires everyone. The few fans they had all said WTF!! Hardy does not believe in top 6 bottom 6. Does not believe in role players. When accused of not liking bigger players he publicly responds, "I don't like bad hockey players".

Saying Hardy is a forward thinker is an understatement. All my decades I have never seen a roster constructed without role players, a bottom 6 and bottom pairing that plays a role. .......

A Hardy roster, when I refer to his roster I capitalize Roster (a Hardy Roster), is comprised of skilled playmakers all the way to the last rostered player, period, and they're usually small. The organIzational philosophy is to have playmakers thru L4 and the 3rd rotation and loosen the structure to let the kids create and if you can stop their playmakers over a full 60 minutes you win. Period.

In his 2nd yr they were 41-7 when Covid shut em down and have won every cup the USHL has to offer since.

My point is Danny Wirtz is considered a forward thinker in his businesses. Since they hired "the soccer guys" known for forward thinking, did not hire a Rutherford, Gratton or Boudreau within a couple weeks of the firings tells me buckle up we're gonna see some outa the box stuff in the Hawk's FO.

And I'm not sure how to feel about that although I do think KD will have the interim tag removed.

Ricco, I have no confidence this will happen until more front office changes were made. Who is KD's brain trust? Stewart and Eaton? They have been with the Hawks throughout this slide, and have been promoted to where they are now. I am sure they are giving him the same advice they gave Bowman. Now they want to sell off the pieces that they were excited to acquire? Or are they saying, the pieces are there, just need a few tweeks, we "like our team" in bowman speak.
- LAHawk

I am with you 100%. I have felt, and still do, it's beyond imperative to have a whole new slew of hockey people hired from outside the organIzation. It's almost a cliche, and one I believe, they need fresh eyes on yr's old conundrums.

I'm as impatient as anyone but just can not, impossible for me, to get past the decision makers promoting and extending StanBow this offseason. Looking at the franchise the last 5 yrs, and especially now that Stan is gone, it is beyond egregious that was done........ With that in mind my only hope is "the soccer guys". Knowing what we know is there anything else to hope for?

Fearing writing 14 paragraphs on this this has been on my mind. I watched the Mighty Steel turn into a powerhouse that had missed the playoffs for 8 straight yrs, so much so Canadian writers equate the organIzation with the London Knights as the best jr franchises on earth. .... And ask any Canadian how protective the Canadian press is of Major Junior. Beyond high praise.

Steel lost in the conference playoffs, had a great team, Ryan Hardy is hired as GM and fires everyone. The few fans they had all said WTF!! Hardy does not believe in top 6 bottom 6. Does not believe in role players. When accused of not liking bigger players he publicly responds, "I don't like bad hockey players".

Saying Hardy is a forward thinker is an understatement. All my decades I have never seen a roster constructed without role players, a bottom 6 and bottom pairing that plays a role. .......

A Hardy roster, when I refer to his roster I capitalize Roster (a Hardy Roster), is comprised of skilled playmakers all the way to the last rostered player, period, and they're usually small. The organIzational philosophy is to have playmakers thru L4 and the 3rd rotation and loosen the structure to let the kids create and if you can stop their playmakers over a full 60 minutes you win. Period.

In his 2nd yr they were 41-7 when Covid shut em down and have won every cup the USHL has to offer since.

My point is Danny Wirtz is considered a forward thinker in his businesses. Since they hired "the soccer guys" known for forward thinking, did not hire a Rutherford, Gratton or Boudreau within a couple weeks of the firings tells me buckle up we're gonna see some outa the box stuff in the Hawk's FO.

And I'm not sure how to feel about that although I do think KD will have the interim tag removed.
- Mr Ricochet

Rico, you make an excellent case to support the approach the Hawks are taking. I absolutely LOVE thinking outside the lines and always pull for those doing so. The downside is that sometimes the drawn, established way is the established way for good reason. Ask Marc Trestman. Take the Steel example...can this possibly be done at the NHL level with a salary cap? Doubtful.

I admire your enthusiasm for the Hawks plan, and I'm hoping you are on target.

I have a confession to make, Rico. I have been involved with outside consultants probably 10+ times. They are 1-9. They never know as much about the business as those who do it every day. They are almost always brought in to tell the big cheese what s/he (apologies for the binary pronoun) wants to hear. They are almost always the result of a management failure; and almost never correct that issue. There is not one Secret Sauce management style that produces titles. The Soccer Gurus are there for marketing reasons. Just my take, and I will absolutely love it if they succeed.
- mohel

Your comment a month back about the Hawks not having a list 4-5 deep to fill any management position that opens up clued me into your world. As a dog who punched a time clock all my life this never occurred to me so I watch your thoughts on management matters.

But even as an hourly dreg for decades I've seen it over and over where management is gonna reinvent the wheel and most importantly cover their asses. New thinking, new way of doing things. It's out of my realm but when the crap rolls down the hill it lands at my kind's feet cuz it's our back and hands that produce.

So I'm reading yours and other management types thoughts. I was really skeptical of Ryan Hardy's new way but it worked fantastically so there is weight on both sides of the scale in my pickled mind.

Fearing writing 14 paragraphs on this this has been on my mind. I watched the Mighty Steel turn into a powerhouse that had missed the playoffs for 8 straight yrs, so much so Canadian writers equate the organIzation with the London Knights as the best jr franchises on earth. .... And ask any Canadian how protective the Canadian press is of Major Junior. Beyond high praise.

Steel lost in the conference playoffs, had a great team, Ryan Hardy is hired as GM and fires everyone. The few fans they had all said WTF!! Hardy does not believe in top 6 bottom 6. Does not believe in role players. When accused of not liking bigger players he publicly responds, "I don't like bad hockey players".

Saying Hardy is a forward thinker is an understatement. All my decades I have never seen a roster constructed without role players, a bottom 6 and bottom pairing that plays a role. .......

A Hardy roster, when I refer to his roster I capitalize Roster (a Hardy Roster), is comprised of skilled playmakers all the way to the last rostered player, period, and they're usually small. The organIzational philosophy is to have playmakers thru L4 and the 3rd rotation and loosen the structure to let the kids create and if you can stop their playmakers over a full 60 minutes you win. Period.

In his 2nd yr they were 41-7 when Covid shut em down and have won every cup the USHL has to offer since.

My point is Danny Wirtz is considered a forward thinker in his businesses. Since they hired "the soccer guys" known for forward thinking, did not hire a Rutherford, Gratton or Boudreau within a couple weeks of the firings tells me buckle up we're gonna see some outa the box stuff in the Hawk's FO.

And I'm not sure how to feel about that although I do think KD will have the interim tag removed.
- Mr Ricochet

That's a cool perspective thanks for sharing.

Should be interesting to see what they do. Speaking for myself I'm more impatient to see some kind of plan revealed or action taken due to lack of other excitement but you make a good point.

Obviously the reason they lost is because the league and refs are out to get the Hawks because of the events of 2010, am I correct?
- paulr

I'm sure it goes back to Tom Lysiak knocking down that linesman.

It’s not necessarily about how hard the hits are. There are too many instances where a Hawk player won’t use his body, even to impede the opposition. Hard hits are nice don’t get me wrong but slowing the opponent by getting in his way all the time is more important.
- paulr

Or lack the size and strength to move opposing players. Maybe the Hawks need to rethink their strength and conditioning guys?

I can't recall a Hawks player adding strength to their game.... maybe Dcat? Toews gets pushed around so much now. Strome hasn't gained an ounce of strength since getting here. None of our d prospects have really developed physically.

I understand the shift to more movement based/flexibility training that helps guys have longer careers (I think Kane has talked about this recently) but guys still need strength.

Hawks don't even have a possession/down low player in their top 9. Not only do the Hawks get out muscled now but they get out skated too. Can't win many games when the other team is stronger and faster and your forwards are horrible at maintaining puck possession.

I'm sure it goes back to Tom Lysiak knocking down that linesman.
- scottak

Ask PE, I think he has all of them classified,cross referenced and sorted by year, offense, player, severity, etc. so he can reference them easily.

Your comment a month back about the Hawks not having a list 4-5 deep to fill any management position that opens up clued me into your world. As a dog who punched a time clock all my life this never occurred to me so I watch your thoughts on management matters.

But even as an hourly dreg for decades I've seen it over and over where management is gonna reinvent the wheel and most importantly cover their asses. New thinking, new way of doing things. It's out of my realm but when the crap rolls down the hill it lands at my kind's feet cuz it's our back and hands that produce.

So I'm reading yours and other management types thoughts. I was really skeptical of Ryan Hardy's new way but it worked fantastically so there is weight on both sides of the scale in my pickled mind.
- Mr Ricochet

This is good stuff, especially the bolded. Sometimes reinventing the wheel is absolutely necessary; sometimes the Yogi Berra advice of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" fits better. The trick is deciding when the time is right for change. My belief is that you, LA, and others are talking about Groupthink when seeing the front office over the years - people trained together under one system often think alike, and that ain't good. It is very defensible to want new blood in a management system. Sometimes, though, keeping some of the old blood is also wise. My main point on the topic is that hiring highly effective people is far and away the most important task.

Thanks for the posts.

I'm sure it goes back to Tom Lysiak knocking down that linesman.
- scottak

Oh I think it goes all the way back to 1926 when the team was named after a native. The NHL the refs and Bettman have hated the Hawks since their inception.

I've been as big a backer for Dach, and still am, as anyone but watching him now as compared to the bubble v EDM a couple yrs back I have to admit at best his development has stagnated and probably regressed.

I guess I could give my amateur opinion how to fix him but the developmental plan they have for him now is simply not working and maybe, probably(?), they are screwing the kid up.

We all hope for a 1st rd pick, trade for some prospects and picks in hopes they are top 6 NHLers but in Dach the organIzation has at worst a bonafide 2C right now. They need to develop this possible elite asset properly. ........ I think this is my new phrase, the Hawk organIzation lacks the ability to tackle and block properly. There is no organIzational fundamentals.
- Mr Ricochet

Phil Esposito was a "long lanky" center at the time. He obviously did not develop right away.