Anybody read Wheelers article on the Hawks prospect pool. Other than Reichel he's not very high on it (though he is very high on Reichel).

https://theathletic.com/3...no-25-chicago-blackhawks/

Interesting where he ranks some of the prospects most assumed were higher on the list.
- TheTrob

Believe he said he had Reichel as his highest prospect after Beniers.

After Reichel there was a big drop off to the next guy, Beaidin.

Like you there were some guys I’d assumed would be higher….like Vlasic.

Who the heck is Wheeler. His credentials. He gets paid to churn out stories. I read him as contributing to others same evaluation Only wiz knows best as he watches video and knows what Hawk scouts are thinking. Wiz has been doing this for decades. Others just read some other reviews and make up their evaluation based on less than best opinions others put out.

The fact is Bowman was hamstrung drafting late and trying to remain competitive. He gambled on some trades. He did what he felt needed to be done. Bowman actually has a very full cupboard, best now than during his entire tenure. However most are not top line prospects. He does have some interesting dmen whom could amount to descent 2nd pair. He has two promising goaltenders and maybe another to keep tabs on. The team if managed correctly will have two bottom lines + of hard to play against sound defensive players not void of skill. Some role players too. Yes Reichel is only top prospect among forwards. Although I would wager that MacLaughlin will surprise as solid two way generator - agree per Theo.

Sure Bowman overpaid for Jones. But team could not go firward without a big size guy who plays a lot. Boqvist was not the answer. Repeat: big size dman who when necessary goes up against other big men. Fortunately looks like Allen a good pick. Sure, Jones got paid more than I think necessary

Look at most of Bowman's round one picks, at least last five or so years. He went after skill except Dach. Dach is a combination skill and size pick. Kelly and Bowman aren't dumb; they know they need more size. Bowman was integrating the idea slowly.

One past trade I like to reference is Sharp. I think Bowman held out for a #1 and eventually settled for less. Sharp was beginning decline, was starting to have injury issues but mainly his contract had become too much to fit in. I do not say it was a bad move, as they had to rid themselves the contract. John's unfortunately became an Injury problem player and now has retired.

While you could fault his trading record to an extent, his reasoning for the Panarin and Sharp trades explained a lot. Rip off for Panarin - yes - but Bowman felt he couldn't afford Panarin and stuck with his core Instead. I will say the Panarin trade was not good and I wonder if hindsight that Bowman could have better forecast the situation he was in and made a better return for Breadman

Just remember Bowman choose the correct core pieces to retain and rebuilt well enough to win two more Cups. He also kept pieces intact as they won in 2010

Bowman probably should have anticipated the decline of Seabrooke and Toews. Those two were long lasting warriors but how long could they stay at their level getting whacked and banged up all the time

I had confidance Bowman would draft ok going forward. Trades: lukewarm but I think he learned from previous transactions and paid out big time to ensure he had a big man on defense. Bowman gets criticized on this board by some who don't evaluate the whole picture. I won't say that Bowman has necessarily a good record as GM last few years, but not horrible like some say.
- jhawk59

jhawk, I wasn't posting it as Wheeler is the definitive source for all things scouting, I posted it as a discussion piece. I respect Wiz and his opinion, but his is one of many opinions out there. Lots of guys watch video and watch games at the Jr, college and international level, they have opinions and some have vehicles to share those opinions, however, while they may know other scouts and evaluators, if they are not employed by a team or the league in that capacity, they may not be any more informed than you or I.

I have defended Bowmans drafting in the past, if you look at the picks and where they were in the draft you would be hard pressed to consistently find pick that were complete swings and misses based on what was available at the time, and he arguably hit home runs on picks like DeBrincat and others who provided a whole lot more value than their draft status indicated.

The reasoning behind the Panarin trade was flawed, he was signed for 2 more seasons at the same price as Saad. Made it worse when you turned Saad into Zadorov and Anton Lindholm and all you have left to show for that is a 3rd round pick.

S. Jones is fine, his contract for the first half of that new deal is probably Ok too. The question is did you give up too much and did it need to be done. Was the thought that Jones, McCabe and Fleury all of a sudden make you cup contenders? At this point in time did you need a true #1 D-man? You gave up a top-4 young d-man, 2 high firsts and a 2nd rounder, for a Top d-man and a prospect who maybe becomes a top 4 D in a few years....maybe. Boqvist is playing top 4 minutes (though protected and injured again), Sillinger is contributing already and CLB most likely will get a top 10 pick this year also.

McCabe has been bad more than good, DeHaan has been bad more than good. This club is a bunch of mis-matched pieces and styles. I think King is doing a good job of trying to mesh style and players, but as you go along you see just how much ground the Hawks need to make up to be truly competitive.

Believe he said he had Reichel as his highest prospect after Beniers.

After Reichel there was a big drop off to the next guy, Beaidin.

Like you there were some guys I’d assumed would be higher….like Vlasic.
- HawkintheD

I was surprised that Beaudin was that high, maybe same for C. Dach, AND that Vlassic was so low. The list also really shows what a lack of forward depth there is in the org.

Get your naps in early kids. Puck drop is 4:00PM CST today.

Just rereading what we gave up for Seth Jones is unbelievable.
- BetweenTheDots

My recommended approach to this subject:

via GIPHY

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jhawk, I wasn't posting it as Wheeler is the definitive source for all things scouting, I posted it as a discussion piece. I respect Wiz and his opinion, but his is one of many opinions out there. Lots of guys watch video and watch games at the Jr, college and international level, they have opinions and some have vehicles to share those opinions, however, while they may know other scouts and evaluators, if they are not employed by a team or the league in that capacity, they may not be any more informed than you or I.


I have defended Bowmans drafting in the past, if you look at the picks and where they were in the draft you would be hard pressed to consistently find pick that were complete swings and misses based on what was available at the time, and he arguably hit home runs on picks like DeBrincat and others who provided a whole lot more value than their draft status indicated.

The reasoning behind the Panarin trade was flawed, he was signed for 2 more seasons at the same price as Saad. Made it worse when you turned Saad into Zadorov and Anton Lindholm and all you have left to show for that is a 3rd round pick.

S. Jones is fine, his contract for the first half of that new deal is probably Ok too. The question is did you give up too much and did it need to be done. Was the thought that Jones, McCabe and Fleury all of a sudden make you cup contenders? At this point in time did you need a true #1 D-man? You gave up a top-4 young d-man, 2 high firsts and a 2nd rounder, for a Top d-man and a prospect who maybe becomes a top 4 D in a few years....maybe. Boqvist is playing top 4 minutes (though protected and injured again), Sillinger is contributing already and CLB most likely will get a top 10 pick this year also.

McCabe has been bad more than good, DeHaan has been bad more than good. This club is a bunch of mis-matched pieces and styles. I think King is doing a good job of trying to mesh style and players, but as you go along you see just how much ground the Hawks need to make up to be truly competitive.
- TheTrob

I understand what you are saying about evaluating prospects. With wiz, however, he watches for improvement in skating, understanding, if they even have bubble butts and are good along boards too - a nd he has notes on many of them before their draft year. So I conclude that wiz watches and breaks down tape more than anyone else. No way of knowing, of course, how much all study and follow...but doubtful as long (years) or as detailed as Wiz.

I agree with wiz that Blackhawks needed a big size dman which Boqvist cannot become. Whether Boqvist ever stays healthy enough long enough and eventually stops getting protected minutes, is anyone's guess. He has become stronger and will engage even check more so this season. I have always been a fan and in a perfect world with no salary.cap I'd take him. As for other dmen, we shall see if by seasin end McCabe was more good than bad. He didn't get untracked until King took over and may have In>jury or other issues after King took over...but had been playing much better for a while. I believe McCabe will be fine.

The comment about how pieces being mismatched and the rest of your comments I do agree are correct. I noticed that you are keen evaluator offering views I often share.

Let us hope whenever a viable #1 center is established, that 1) Dach plus Reichel are also important pieces and 2). the roster is comprised of pieces that fit better than the current group

What are you giving up to move up?

What are you giving up to move up?
- Scott1977

Nagy and Pace!

RIP Les Grobstein
- powerenforcer

The world, not just the sports world, lost a 1 in a 100 yr guy here. The definition of marching to your own drummer and loving what you do.

But to sport's fans like me who grew up without cable tv huddled in our bedrooms with a transistor radio listening to games from coast to coast at night the passing of guys like Les chips away at the end of an era. .... A sad sad day in so many ways. RIP, Les.

For folks from my era you don't grow out of this. My eyes opened at 4:30 AM today and the radio goes on, not the tv. Heard Les had passed maybe about 5:30 this morning and have listened to and searched the internets for anything about Les since.

Stumbled across a long long piece written in 1997 about Les and his obsession. If you're at all interested in Les or how sports were reported on and consumed for 100 yrs before the internets and cable this is one helluva read: https://chicagoreader.com...robstein-knows-the-score/

What are you giving up to move up?
- Scott1977

They have no first round pick, so there is no moving up, there is the possibility of trading into the first round. Draft capital they have for next year is 1-2nd, 3-3rd, 1-4th, 2-6th, 1-7th. No combination of those is getting you a first. So.....if you take the team as it stands right now, what assets do you have that get you a first, probably only Kane and Maybe Fleury, and neither gets you a high enough pick in the first that will make a difference any time soon.

I think at this point you stockpile draft picks by trading anything you can that brings you a decent return, especially the expiring contract guys like DeHaan, Strome, Fleury, etc. Reality says, you get pretty much nothing for Carpenter, Lafferty and Gus.

The world, not just the sports world, lost a 1 in a 100 yr guy here. The definition of marching to your own drummer and loving what you do.

But to sport's fans like me who grew up without cable tv huddled in our bedrooms with a transistor radio listening to games from coast to coast at night the passing of guys like Les chips away at the end of an era. .... A sad sad day in so many ways. RIP, Les.

For folks from my era you don't grow out of this. My eyes opened at 4:30 AM today and the radio goes on, not the tv. Heard Les had passed maybe about 5:30 this morning and have listened to and searched the internets for anything about Les since.

Stumbled across a long long piece written in 1997 about Les and his obsession. If you're at all interested in Les or how sports were reported on and consumed for 100 yrs before the internets and cable this is one helluva read: https://chicagoreader.com...robstein-knows-the-score/
- Mr Ricochet

One of the original Chicago Sports Phone guys.

They have no first round pick, so there is no moving up, there is the possibility of trading into the first round. Draft capital they have for next year is 1-2nd, 3-3rd, 1-4th, 2-6th, 1-7th. No combination of those is getting you a first. So.....if you take the team as it stands right now, what assets do you have that get you a first, probably only Kane and Maybe Fleury, and neither gets you a high enough pick in the first that will make a difference any time soon.

I think at this point you stockpile draft picks by trading anything you can that brings you a decent return, especially the expiring contract guys like DeHaan, Strome, Fleury, etc. Reality says, you get pretty much nothing for Carpenter, Lafferty and Gus.
- TheTrob

I think it is time for a fire sale. McCabe, Murphy, DeHaan, Kubalik, Strome, Toews or Kane (if there are good deals), Fluery, etc.

I would even shop Dcat. He is a great goal scorer and improved his 2 way play but I view him as more of a luxury piece a cup contending team needs to fill out the top 6. I don't think he is a core piece you build around.

I think it is time for a fire sale. McCabe, Murphy, DeHaan, Kubalik, Strome, Toews or Kane (if there are good deals), Fluery, etc.

I would even shop Dcat. He is a great goal scorer and improved his 2 way play but I view him as more of a luxury piece a cup contending team needs to fill out the top 6. I don't think he is a core piece you build around.
- bhawks2241

I would have agreed to this reasoning 2 seasons ago, but why did you invest in S. Jones? Can't tear it down that much now.

For Wiz, Rocco, and those that follow draft eligible, after Wright, does any other center project as a #1? Would you trade up for a Slofkosky, Lambert, Geekie, Cooley? Or should the Hawks just wait there turn in the draft, and develop what is already in the system.?
- LAHawk

On the first page of this blog Chunk wrote a post I could have, damn near word for word. To summarize the Hawk's dearth of talent both in the bigs and in the system no way I'd trade up "at this time" for almost any player especially with no 1st this yr. ..... They need 7-10-14 good players not 1 standout. IMO. ...... In fact IMO they are better off trading down than up for a yr or maybe two to collect multiple 1st rd picks. Of course if you can get a Bedard or Wright without using all your resources you have to look at that but do you wanna be a Buffalo with Eichel????

I'm a USHL guy, most every other prospect I see for the draft comes from seeing him at the U-18 WJC and that was cancelled this yr. Cooley would be a top 5 pick that plays C and worth drafting there. Some like Savioe, played USHL last yr as a 16 yr old, back in Major Junior this yr, but I haven't seen him since and wasn't sold last yr but again he was 16....... Cossack Ivan Miroshnichenko is a freak. Was lighting it up as a 17 yr old in the U-20 this yr before it was cancelled. Is playing pro in the Russian AHL as a 17yr old and is a winger.

Loved all of the listed kids from Slovakia, they had an incredible U-18 WJC last yr. Slofkosky is a winger, power forward, and an absolute beast!! Think Landeskog. I think their big Dman Nemac is a top 5ish pick. ....... Their goalie Elias, was incredible, went to the USHL this yr and is getting slaughtered. Grab this kid in the 5th rd.

Lotta posts/thoughts about Wheeler, Wiz, Pronman. I like em all but like Wiz The Draft Analyst's list looks like no others. I'm a fan of his work: https://www.thedraftanalyst.com/

Also look at Bob McKenzie's list. It's not his scouting but like the average of 10 of the top scouts he trusts. Kinda like the industry consensus. https://www.tsn.ca/wright...2-draft-ranking-1.1699349

https://www.eliteprospect...ter/2022/tsn-bob-mckenzie

a

I understand what you are saying about evaluating prospects. With wiz, however, he watches for improvement in skating, understanding, if they even have bubble butts and are good along boards too - a nd he has notes on many of them before their draft year. So I conclude that wiz watches and breaks down tape more than anyone else. No way of knowing, of course, how much all study and follow...but doubtful as long (years) or as detailed as Wiz.

I agree with wiz that Blackhawks needed a big size dman which Boqvist cannot become. Whether Boqvist ever stays healthy enough long enough and eventually stops getting protected minutes, is anyone's guess. He has become stronger and will engage even check more so this season. I have always been a fan and in a perfect world with no salary.cap I'd take him. As for other dmen, we shall see if by seasin end McCabe was more good than bad. He didn't get untracked until King took over and may have In>jury or other issues after King took over...but had been playing much better for a while. I believe McCabe will be fine.

The comment about how pieces being mismatched and the rest of your comments I do agree are correct. I noticed that you are keen evaluator offering views I often share.

Let us hope whenever a viable #1 center is established, that 1) Dach plus Reichel are also important pieces and 2). the roster is comprised of pieces that fit better than the current group
- jhawk59

jhawk, you don't need to defend Wiz. I know what he does. I also know that he is on this board regularly and many Hawk fans know of him and his work because of it. I will say, there are many, many other talent evaluators out there, most of whom you have no idea of, because they do not publicly post their opinions. These people work countless hours (like Wiz), breaking down tape, attending games, camps, showcases, etc. In regards to Wheeler, yes, he is a journalist first, but as a consolidator of information it does not make his opinion invalid, just different. Is Friedman or Hradek or McGuirre a more valid point of view because they are on the air. How about say Kuiper and Arkush for football, etc. are they any more knowledgeable than an informed fan, observer.
'
It's like a movie critic, you tend to gravitate towards the ones you find you have similar tastes as, or ones who's past reviews align with what you have seen. I think there are bunch of posters on this blog who watch a lot of Hockey, Wiz is just one of them.

One of the original Chicago Sports Phone guys.
- TheTrob

Such a different era, a different time, a different way of watching sports. ..... Made one call to Sportsphone when a Bears preseason game was preempted. The bastards wouldn't gimme the score cuz they thought I was gonna try cheat and bet my buddies.

Never called them again.

I think it is time for a fire sale. McCabe, Murphy, DeHaan, Kubalik, Strome, Toews or Kane (if there are good deals), Fluery, etc.

I would even shop Dcat. He is a great goal scorer and improved his 2 way play but I view him as more of a luxury piece a cup contending team needs to fill out the top 6. I don't think he is a core piece you build around.
- bhawks2241

Unfortunately, Hockey is not like any of the other professional sports where burning it down and compiling prospects is necessarily a path to future success. There are plenty of examples, BUF and EDM being most recent, that show just how difficult it is.
EDM has drafted in the top 10 picks in 11 of the last 15 drafts, including 3 first overall picks, a #3 and a #4. Exactly what has it won them? BUF has drafted in the top 10 for the last 9 years including 2 first overall and 2 second overall. What have they won?

Tearing it down guarantees nothing. Keeping a core while building around it means you can seemingly remain competitive while looking for that one or 2 pieces to get you to the next level.

@BenPopeCST

Derek King said scratching Galvas today was "out of respect" for Gustafsson, Caleb Jones and McCabe, to get them in the lineup.

But Galvas "definitely" turned eyes during first 3 games — "He's got a little taste of it now." They haven't decided if he'll stay in NHL right now.

====
Are we trying to win or trying to make sure everyone gets a blue ribbon? I understand that we may not make the playoffs, but you've got a locker room right now that is energized and has hope. Wouldn't giving them the best chance to win make sense?

On that note, agree with whomever said yesterday to send Kirby down to Rockford for conditioning stint when he returns from COVID. Put him on a line with Reichel and see how he does. He "should" be able to light it up down there, but as Theo said, he didn't in his last go round. Maybe playing with Reichel will help him overcome whatever it is that has caused the (hopefully temporary) regression since EDM.

Fact is, we didn't really miss him being in the lineup the last few games.

I would even shop Dcat. He is a great goal scorer and improved his 2 way play but I view him as more of a luxury piece a cup contending team needs to fill out the top 6. I don't think he is a core piece you build around.
- bhawks2241

ADB wears an "A" and is the most likely to be the next "C" IMO. He's handling himself like a real pro and a strong leader on all fronts. He is core. Who replaces what he brings?
He's like a lite version of Ovechkin, but more likeable.

Unfortunately, Hockey is not like any of the other professional sports where burning it down and compiling prospects is necessarily a path to future success. There are plenty of examples, BUF and EDM being most recent, that show just how difficult it is.
EDM has drafted in the top 10 picks in 11 of the last 15 drafts, including 3 first overall picks, a #3 and a #4. Exactly what has it won them? BUF has drafted in the top 10 for the last 9 years including 2 first overall and 2 second overall. What have they won?

Tearing it down guarantees nothing. Keeping a core while building around it means you can seemingly remain competitive while looking for that one or 2 pieces to get you to the next level.
- TheTrob

Agree, the Kings tore it down, it still signed Kopitar and Doughty to long term extensions. The Hawks have torn it down, outside of Jones, they have nobody signed long term, and ADB is mid term, After next year, they have Jones, Murphy, McCabe and ADB signed, and Murphy, McCabes contracts can easily be moved.

Agree, the Kings tore it down, it still signed Kopitar and Doughty to long term extensions. The Hawks have torn it down, outside of Jones, they have nobody signed long term, and ADB is mid term, After next year, they have Jones, Murphy, McCabe and ADB signed, and Murphy, McCabes contracts can easily be moved.
- LAHawk

Hawks can tear it down yes but still need players to build around. Seth Jones dcat dach Reichel and Lankinen for now need a goalie. Everyone elseincluding Kane and Toews should be traded imo.

ADB wears an "A" and is the most likely to be the next "C" IMO. He's handling himself like a real pro and a strong leader on all fronts. He is core. Who replaces what he brings?
He's like a lite version of Ovechkin, but more likeable.
- GreenJeans

He is nothing like Ovechkin except that both score goals. Ovi is a monster and 1st ballot HOF.

I love Dcat but is he a top line wing on a cup winning team? Probably not unless you have a stud at 1C and another top winger.

Also have to consider how good Dcat is without Kane around.

@BenPopeCST

Derek King said scratching Galvas today was "out of respect" for Gustafsson, Caleb Jones and McCabe, to get them in the lineup.

But Galvas "definitely" turned eyes during first 3 games — "He's got a little taste of it now." They haven't decided if he'll stay in NHL right now.

====
Are we trying to win or trying to make sure everyone gets a blue ribbon? I understand that we may not make the playoffs, but you've got a locker room right now that is energized and has hope. Wouldn't giving them the best chance to win make sense?

On that note, agree with whomever said yesterday to send Kirby down to Rockford for conditioning stint when he returns from COVID. Put him on a line with Reichel and see how he does. He "should" be able to light it up down there, but as Theo said, he didn't in his last go round. Maybe playing with Reichel will help him overcome whatever it is that has caused the (hopefully temporary) regression since EDM.

Fact is, we didn't really miss him being in the lineup the last few games.
- pdx2ord

Holy Moses, Borgstrom touched the puck !!!!

This team needs more offense and also more speed, that’s why I’d rather they keep Kubalik for his offense, but cap hit has to be within reason. Lafferty is just a guy, but he brings speed, which the Hawks need. Although a small sample size, rather have him centering the fourth line than Carpenter.

I learned as a 12 year old to never drop to the ice unless, as a coach told me, you’re 1 million percent certain you will make not only the right defensive play but won’t impede teammates and you’re ready to make the follow up play. Why do players constantly lie flat on the ice on a two on one? You position yourself so you ensure the cross ice pass is taken away and goalie has the man with the puck.