I applaud your eternal optimism. I really do but I wonder what it's going to take for you to have an honest assessment of what the Flyers have done? The moves Fletcher has made and the direction the team has taken since firing Hextall, have not been good decisions. As a GM, that Nashville was willing to trade Ellis for the package that he gave them, should've given him pause. Taking on that contract with a player with a questionable injury history was a colossal blunder. As was trading what he did for Ristolainen for a mediocre player in the final year of his contract. While Atkinson has some good qualities as a player, the Flyers traded more skill and speed, which is what you want to add for Atkinson. They failed to adequately replace the qualities that they lost with Voracek.
I don't think you even realize it but what you're advocating for is the same thing that Hextall was trying to do. How you change with the wind as to what approach the team should take is really amazing. The bottom line is that upper management and Fletcher really screwed up. Fletcher should be fired but that won't happen. The question is what do they do moving forward? Do they smarten up or just continue down the same path? I told you repeatedly last off season that what the Flyers did was far more likely to damage their future than to help it.
What the Flyers need to do is move some players like Giroux and Ristolainen. Create cap space. Use that as a weapon to try and take advantage of teams that need cap space and acquire future assets. If they need to, bring in short term cheap vets as stop gaps and return to the approach that Hextall was taking. If they're smart but they're not.
- MJL

The guy does not agree w you.

Is that not allowed?

It doesn’t make him right or wrong.

It’s an opinion. These are all opinions.

Even analytics that don’t make a player look favorable assist in formulating opinion, but opinions are not facts. You don’t think that Risto putting up 40 pts in 4 consecutive years supports a favorable opinion on his offensive abilities. I don’t agree with you, but again they are all just opinions. I don’t think the Flyers will be hiring their next GM from this chat.

We all have access to the same exact data, watch the same games and just disagree.

I said it as a joke first but this franchise really should bring in Hinkie as a consultant lol. Ugh.

Even analytics that don’t make a player look favorable assist in formulating opinion, but opinions are not facts. You don’t think that Risto putting up 40 pts in 4 consecutive years supports a favorable opinion on his offensive abilities. I don’t agree with you, but again they are all just opinions. I don’t think the Flyers will be hiring their next GM from this chat.

We all have access to the same exact data, watch the same games and just disagree.
- Joe Nardone

How can we have a conversation when you don't even have my position correct?

I was hoping someone would do the logo of a hairy orange fly over the dogmess at WFC center ice...less polite, more accurate
- RajaAmpat

What about the depth of the team? You mentioned yesterday there was no one to back fill coots. Which which one is it? Depth or no depth?
- Robert's Plant

Yesterday, in that Couts discussion, he told me that I was wrong about my belief that the wildly inflated OS of KK by Canes was done to mock the Habs. (He means Kotkaniemi, not Koskinen in the quote below).

"The Koskinen OS was more than just about getting back at the Habs. They used cap space to identify a player they think they can grow and develop into a top center. The risk there is the QO scenario."


Now, nvm the gadzlllions of common sense arguments against this (the Canes trolling in French, the minimum term, the $20 (Aho's #) bonus, the financial self-shackling of the QO he refers to if that "identification" actually worked).

You know how long Canes gave that experiment of seeing KK as a top line center?

1 frikking game.

Midway through the 2nd game, KK was moved to the 4th line, and has played there steadily ever since, in spite of several pretty good games while there.

MJL is not without his merits, but you must understand: he argues to argue. There is no point in holding him to consistency standards.

- Dkos

Good job. But, how do we know that's dog poop?

You need to have some of our scapedogs there. (Homer/Fletcher/AV/Hextall..) there.

... is not without his merits, but you must understand: he argues to argue. There is no point in holding him to consistency standards.
- PT21

To be fair, that applies to many here

I respect you because you defend Patrick as much as I defend O'Brien! :-)
- jd250

He doesnt defend patrick quite that much
- bradster

It’s not defending Patrick as much as, he’s a kid with unfair expectations, with concussion issues, in the public eye. Somehow he’s suppose to be cheerful all the time. If that’s not pressure, what is? It’s just common sense.

I dont understand why thats funny, or are you just being a D!ck
- bradster

Do you even have to ask? And BTW the I do have it right.

Know what the really smart people do? They make the right call before the results are in. Anyone can change their mind in hindsight. That doesn't make someone smart. What credibility do you have with your final statement? Should we review what you said about the moves in the past off season? You've labeled the moves that have set this team back further, smart moves.



No it's not his team. This Flyers team is Fletcher's team. He was the GM of the Wild for 9 years. They didn't win anything when he was there. He has been gone from the Wild for almost 2 1/2 years.
- MJL

NONE of the moves Fletcher has made this off season has set this franchise back, not ONE!! I challenge you to state clearly how any of Fletcher's moves has set this franchise back! Obtaining a number 1 defenseman for basically nothing is no where near setting this franchise back!!

NONE of the moves Fletcher has made this off season has set this franchise back, not ONE!! I challenge you to state clearly how any of Fletcher's moves has set this franchise back! Obtaining a number 1 defenseman for basically nothing is no where near setting this franchise back!!
- jd250

My guess is the one 1 st round pick. When the entire future of the franchise was sold.

My guess is the one 1 st round pick. When the entire future of the franchise was sold.
- Peter Richards

Exactly!

Honestly Im a little confused why this team is so bad. However it does make some sense given Ellis who was the biggest addition to the team and was really a guy responsible for the good start is hurt and hasnt played in a while. At this point you have to go rebuild. Giroux is a UFA and honestly looking at the state of the team, I can see him wanting to go elsewhere to try and win. Considering he's pretty much the only guy playing well, things arent going to get better.

Look to move the UFAs and guys on shorter contracts or UFA. EX. Giroux, Ristolainen, Braun, JVR and Thompson. Build around Couturier, Frost, Farabee, Sanheim, Hart. The larger contracts with term we are probably looking at taking on larger contracts with a shorter term like a Lucic for example.

It is time to rebuild

Know what the really smart people do? They make the right call before the results are in. Anyone can change their mind in hindsight. That doesn't make someone smart. What credibility do you have with your final statement? Should we review what you said about the moves in the past off season? You've labeled the moves that have set this team back further, smart moves.



No it's not his team. This Flyers team is Fletcher's team. He was the GM of the Wild for 9 years. They didn't win anything when he was there. He has been gone from the Wild for almost 2 1/2 years.
- MJL

I think he left Minnesota in April 2018, so it's more than 3.5 years closing in on 4. Calling the Wild his team is a bit of a stretch but people here still consider this Hextall's team so....

The guy does not agree w you.

Is that not allowed?

It doesn’t make him right or wrong.

It’s an opinion. These are all opinions.

Even analytics that don’t make a player look favorable assist in formulating opinion, but opinions are not facts. You don’t think that Risto putting up 40 pts in 4 consecutive years supports a favorable opinion on his offensive abilities. I don’t agree with you, but again they are all just opinions. I don’t think the Flyers will be hiring their next GM from this chat.

We all have access to the same exact data, watch the same games and just disagree.
- Joe Nardone

No, you see Joe, with MJL its never about hearing and valuing different perspectives, its only about being right and wrong, and MJL must always be right!

- Dkos

Nice work! I have no idea how to do that stuff.

Sweet. Looks like brassard came back for a game and is injured again.

Sweet. Looks like brassard came back for a game and is injured again.
- Peter Richards

I remember someone commenting (Jones? JJ? Morganti?) during the NJ game that there were a few guys playing that maybe wouldn’t be if they weren’t so shorthanded right now. This is a desperate team. Not surprising that guys are rushing it back from injuries

No, you see Joe, with MJL its never about hearing and valuing different perspectives, its only about being right and wrong, and MJL must always be right!
- jd250

black_francis enters the chat

Yesterday, in that Couts discussion, he told me that I was wrong about my belief that the wildly inflated OS of KK by Canes was done to mock the Habs. (He means Kotkaniemi, not Koskinen in the quote below).

"The Koskinen OS was more than just about getting back at the Habs. They used cap space to identify a player they think they can grow and develop into a top center. The risk there is the QO scenario."


Now, nvm the gadzlllions of common sense arguments against this (the Canes trolling in French, the minimum term, the $20 (Aho's #) bonus, the financial self-shackling of the QO he refers to if that "identification" actually worked).

You know how long Canes gave that experiment of seeing KK as a top line center?

1 frikking game.

Midway through the 2nd game, KK was moved to the 4th line, and has played there steadily ever since, in spite of several pretty good games while there.

MJL is not without his merits, but you must understand: he argues to argue. There is no point in holding him to consistency standards.
- PT21

Actually, by this display of immaturity and bringing this off topic reply to this thread, which was not part of the current conversation, you are the guy who is looking for the argument. Of course I know what it actually is. It's attempted retribution for schooling you on that other conversation we had.
What is missing from your comments is any evidence or corroboration that the OS was just about getting back at the Habs. My position is not that it wasn't part of it. Unless of course that you think an NHL team would give up a 1st and a 3rd round pick just for spite to another team. It would not surprise me if you did think that though. Here are some quotes from Carolina

https://www.espn.com/nhl/...ar-61-million-offer-sheet

"Jesperi Kotkaniemi is a player who has been on our radar since before his draft year," Carolina general manager Don Waddell said in a statement. "We believe he will flourish in [coach] Rod Brind'Amour's system and culture, and he will be an important piece of what we are building in Carolina for years to come."

"His age and natural skill set suggests a very high ceiling, and the opportunity to acquire players like that simply does not come along very often," Carolina assistant general manager Eric Tulsky said. "Jesperi is a smart player who sees the ice extremely well; it seems like every time he touches the puck, he puts his team in a better position."

So clearly it was also what they see in the player that was part of it. Feel free to make your case that it wasn't part of it.

To be fair, that applies to many here
- Scoob

The Internet draws in people who like to argue. I have been on it since the early 90s, mea culpa, and I don't say that with much pride.

But there is the difference between someone who likes to argue and seeks out different arguments, and someone who will persist with the line of a specific argument, then get hopelessly entangled with it, then have it emerge from his butt, then entangle himself one more, and then do the whole thing all over again with unrelenting gusto, and then, hopelessly entangled and messy, say, with chlldish delight: look, I have handed it to you.

That's him, about... 50% of the time. I have to confess, I have never encountered someone like that anywhere, on any forum.

The other 50% is fine. Which makes it even more eerie.

NONE of the moves Fletcher has made this off season has set this franchise back, not ONE!! I challenge you to state clearly how any of Fletcher's moves has set this franchise back! Obtaining a number 1 defenseman for basically nothing is no where near setting this franchise back!!
- jd250

Really?


Ellis hasn't been on the ice. He has 5 more years left after this. What are the odds of him remaining healthy? Ristolainen has not been worth the cost to acquire him and he has to be re-signed and won't be worth what he will cost. Atkinson is clearly not an upgrade over Voracek and he has an extra year on his deal. When the Flyers get to the point of possibly contending. If Ristolainen is re-signed, they most likely will be higher cap hit aging and declining players. Should I refer you back to your recent Hayes comments?

I remember someone commenting (Jones? JJ? Morganti?) during the NJ game that there were a few guys playing that maybe wouldn’t be if they weren’t so shorthanded right now. This is a desperate team. Not surprising that guys are rushing it back from injuries
- Dkos

It isnt but the fact they are rushing back is hurting us more. Ellis is def the biggest loss. We have Yandle playing 16+ mins a game and this is a guy who probably shouldnt be dressed never mind playing that much. Puck possession starts with the D. We cant make a clear to save our lives and its typically the same guys over and over

The Internet draws in people who like to argue. I have been on it since the early 90s, mea culpa, and I don't say that with much pride.

But there is the difference between someone who likes to argue and seeks out different arguments, and someone who will persist with the line of a specific argument, then get hopelessly entangled with it, then have it emerge from his butt, then entangle himself one more, and then do the whole thing all over again with unrelenting gusto, and then, hopelessly entangled and messy, say, with chlldish delight: look, I have handed it to you.

That's him, about... 50% of the time. I have to confess, I have never encountered someone like that anywhere, on any forum.

The other 50% is fine. Which makes it even more eerie.
- PT21

This is not a good look for you. It's whining and sour grapes. Nobody has forced you to involve yourself in any conversations here. If you can't attack the message. Attack the messenger.

I remember someone commenting (Jones? JJ? Morganti?) during the NJ game that there were a few guys playing that maybe wouldn’t be if they weren’t so shorthanded right now. This is a desperate team. Not surprising that guys are rushing it back from injuries
- Dkos

Yeah I get it. I just look at it by injury though and the ones you can do or should be able to do that with. Stop rushing the groin hip stuff, especially with older players I guess is all I’m saying.