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Forums :: Blog World :: Theo Fox: Knocked Out Cold
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StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Dec 8 @ 11:26 AM ET
Players are supposed to be in complete control of their sticks - a stick to the head - no matter how accidental - is a 2-minute (sometimes 4-minute) minor.

Why not apply the same philosophy to body parts? Any hit to the head - shoulder, elbow, whatever - is at least a minor penalty, maybe a major. Players should to be in control of their bodies.

Something hit Khaira’s head - Trouba’s shoulder, elbow - and whatever it was, Trouba delivered the hit and drove up into Khaira’s head.

Khaira wasn’t as aware of Trouba as he possibly should have been, his head down too long - doesn’t matter. Trouba has to be in control of his body parts.

These are the best power and skill skaters in the world - they can turn on a quarter, stop on a dime, and give change. Committed to the check? At least look like you’re trying to avoid a dangerous hit.
Rota's Rooter
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:28 AM ET
Blackhawks roster moves in wake of Khaira injury:

- Hardman called up
- Kurashev called up
- Mitchell sent down
- Kalynuk sent down
- Entwistle activated from LTIR and sent down

Kurashev tallied 3 points (2+1) in 3 games for Rockford.

- Chunk

So. Reese Johnson's roster spot is safe!
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 11:30 AM ET
Here's the rule directly from the league rule book. Trouba hit him squarely through the body as he came at him head on, he didn't "pick" his head. Khaira looked for the puck in his feet right before contact, putting himself in a vulnerable position and materially changing the position of his head which contributed to head contact. There's no argument from me that Trouba didn't hit him in the head. The question is whether it's avoidable and I don't think it was considering the criteria below. It was unfortunate but I'd be shocked if there was any supplemental discipline given how the rule is written.

Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an
opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and
such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.
In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was
avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be
considered:
(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the
opponent’s body
and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor
timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the
body upward or outward.
(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by
assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full
body check unavoidable.
(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body
or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way
that significantly contributed to the head contact.

- SkjeiStadium


This is a very informative, eloquent and well thought out response... overruled.


Kidding. I get where you are coming from, and I agree with most of it. From my perspective, it looks like Trouba's arm/shoulds raise up before the hit. The first point of contact is the head. I'm not sure what the definition of "picked" is, so I'm not going to debate that (because I can't).

I'm not being a homer here (I thought Seabrook's "wakey wakey" hit on Backes was a poopty play and I love Seabrook). I just think there is justification for both sides on this particular play.
SkjeiStadium
New York Rangers
Joined: 03.09.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:30 AM ET
Players are supposed to be in complete control of their sticks - a stick to the head - no matter how accidental - is a 2-minute (sometimes 4-minute) minor.

Why not apply the same philosophy to body parts? Any hit to the head - shoulder, elbow, whatever - is at least a minor penalty, maybe a major. Players should to be in control of their bodies.

Something hit Khaira’s head - Trouba’s shoulder, elbow - and whatever it was, Trouba delivered the hit and drove up into Khaira’s head.

Khaira wasn’t as aware of Trouba as he possibly should have been, his head down too long - doesn’t matter. Trouba has to be in control of his body parts.

These are the best power and skill skaters in the world - they can turn on a quarter, stop on a dime, and give change. Committed to the check? At least look like you’re trying to avoid a dangerous hit.

- StLBravesFan


I don't necessarily disagree that that should be the rule, but discussing what the rule should be vs whether Trouba's hit was legal under the current rules are two different conversations.
SkjeiStadium
New York Rangers
Joined: 03.09.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:33 AM ET
This is a very informative, eloquent and well thought out response... overruled.


Kidding. I get where you are coming from, and I agree with most of it. From my perspective, it looks like Trouba's arm/shoulds raise up before the hit. The first point of contact is the head. I'm not sure what the definition of "picked" is, so I'm not going to debate that (because I can't).

I'm not being a homer here (I thought Seabrook's "wakey wakey" hit on Backes was a poopty play and I love Seabrook). I just think there is justification for both sides on this particular play.

- Chunk

I can respect that. Btw, I think an example of someone "picking" someones head was Sergachev's hit on Marner this year. He comes from the side and only makes contact with the head. When you hit through the body like Trouba did generally head contact is forgiven, although not always and I think that's why we have these debates.

Also +1 for the My Cousin Vinny reference
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Dec 8 @ 11:37 AM ET
Blackhawks announce Jujhar Khaira was released from the hospital early this morning and is home now. “Despite the significant injury, his prognosis is excellent, and we expect a full recovery. At this point, it is too early to put a timeline on return to play.”
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 11:38 AM ET
I can respect that. Btw, I think an example of someone "picking" someones head was Sergachev's hit on Marner this year. He comes from the side and only makes contact with the head. When you hit through the body like Trouba did generally head contact is forgiven, although not always and I think that's why we have these debates.

Also +1 for the My Cousin Vinny reference

- SkjeiStadium


I never saw the Sergachev hit on Marner. Just checked it out. Oof. Yeah, (frank) that guy.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 11:41 AM ET
So. Reese Johnson's roster spot is safe!

- Rota's Rooter


You shut your mouth when you're talking to me!
SkjeiStadium
New York Rangers
Joined: 03.09.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:44 AM ET
I never saw the Sergachev hit on Marner. Just checked it out. Oof. Yeah, (frank) that guy.
- Chunk

For the record I was sick to my stomach watching Khaira lay on the ice so don't want to come off like I'm saying it wasn't a devastating hit, but IMO it was not nearly as ugly as that Sergachev hit, result aside. Hoping he can get back on the ice soon.

As an aside that game was way closer than the final score. Hawks are pulling it together after their tough start.
Popsghostly
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheaton, IL
Joined: 08.11.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:52 AM ET
For the record I was sick to my stomach watching Khaira lay on the ice so don't want to come off like I'm saying it wasn't a devastating hit, but IMO it was not nearly as ugly as that Sergachev hit, result aside. Hoping he can get back on the ice soon.

As an aside that game was way closer than the final score. Hawks are pulling it together after their tough start.

- SkjeiStadium


Yeah, Khaira had his head down. I didn't see Trouba jump to make contact or raise is elbows up. Glad he's OK.

I agree it was closer than the score but that's what good teams do, win those closer games and bad teams, well they lose them.

That 4th Line with Reaves and Goodrow looks pretty good. When you can roll 4 good lines, it usually means you are going to get far in the playoffs.
Popsghostly
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheaton, IL
Joined: 08.11.2017

Dec 8 @ 11:55 AM ET
Theo, for once I disagree a bit.

I think Mitchell looked pretty bad for the second and third period.

The 4th goal resulted from him bailing and losing the puck and I saw a lot of hesitancy to go into the corners in the second half of the game. It's as if the Rangers were targeting him- Mitchell was -4 last night. The Rangers scored 2 PP goals so that means he was on the ice for all even strength goals.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 11:59 AM ET
For the record I was sick to my stomach watching Khaira lay on the ice so don't want to come off like I'm saying it wasn't a devastating hit, but IMO it was not nearly as ugly as that Sergachev hit, result aside. Hoping he can get back on the ice soon.

As an aside that game was way closer than the final score. Hawks are pulling it together after their tough start.

- SkjeiStadium


The Hawks are playing better. They still are about three decent players short. They just don't have the developed talent yet. It's coming along, but the process is longer than most can stomach (me included).
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

Dec 8 @ 11:59 AM ET
https://twitter.com/hayyy...MB6L6STmFuQxHg7x1_pg&s=01

Damn, looks like the Hawks drafted the wrong guy, damn
Popsghostly
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheaton, IL
Joined: 08.11.2017

Dec 8 @ 12:03 PM ET
The Hawks are playing better. They still are about three decent players short. They just don't have the developed talent yet. It's coming along, but the process is longer than most can stomach (me included).
- Chunk


It's surprising they've either won or kept games close on this road trip/1 game at home without Murphy and McCabe, their 2-3 DMen and C.Jones last night. It's either the team itself is playing much better defensively or the kids are interchangeable with the veterans on the D. Or would they have given up fewer goals with Murphy and McCabe in as a third possibility?
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Dec 8 @ 12:08 PM ET
https://twitter.com/hayyyshayyy/status/1468392930427744256?t=PSMB6L6STmFuQxHg7x1_pg&s=01

Damn, looks like the Hawks drafted the wrong guy, damn

- BetweenTheDots


Awesome play. Thought he did that in juniors too.

Glad to see Kirby get off the Schneid last night and hoping he doesn’t go another 17 games before his next.
Shady1962
Joined: 02.06.2021

Dec 8 @ 12:08 PM ET
What an embarrassing display by the Hawks last night on every level. Lol. FYI. Kirby Dach Is a third line Center, Nothing more.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Dec 8 @ 12:13 PM ET
What an embarrassing display by the Hawks last night on every level. Lol. FYI. Kirby Dach Is a third line Center, Nothing more.
- Shady1962


Thanks for the advanced scouting report.

Maybe someone could get word to Kirby to let him know that any offseason regimen he’s thinking about to develop will be useless so why bother?
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 12:15 PM ET
What an embarrassing display by the Hawks last night on every level. Lol. FYI. Kirby Dach Is a third line Center, Nothing more.
- Shady1962


How do you not have a Pulitzer by now?
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Dec 8 @ 12:19 PM ET
I wonder what Ranger fans' responses would be if Panarin was on the receiving end of that "clean" hit?
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Dec 8 @ 12:23 PM ET
Thanks for the advanced scouting report.

Maybe someone could get word to Kirby to let him know that any offseason regimen he’s thinking about to develop will be useless so why bother?

- HawkintheD


Both King and Toews said watching Khiara being wheeled off affected the team’s concentration, totally understandable. Remember the Hawks lost a playoff series when Hossa got layed out.

Sadly, R. Johnson, there really right now is no other alternative. Carpenter, Khiara, and are properly slotted on line 4. As is Slavin. We complain if any of the 3 play in the top 9
Tonybere
New York Rangers
Location: ON
Joined: 02.04.2016

Dec 8 @ 12:26 PM ET
What an embarrassing display by the Hawks last night on every level. Lol. FYI. Kirby Dach Is a third line Center, Nothing more.
- Shady1962


So, you're an absolute doosh without a scrap of knowledge on every board here, eh?
Tonybere
New York Rangers
Location: ON
Joined: 02.04.2016

Dec 8 @ 12:29 PM ET
I wonder what Ranger fans' responses would be if Panarin was on the receiving end of that "clean" hit?
- 67hawks


Well, Panarin WAS on the receiving end of what the league deemed to be clean events last year, so...
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 8 @ 12:35 PM ET
Both King and Toews said watching Khiara being wheeled off affected the team’s concentration, totally understandable. Remember the Hawks lost a playoff series when Hossa got layed out.

Sadly, R. Johnson, there really right now is no other alternative. Carpenter, Khiara, and are properly slotted on line 4. As is Slavin. We complain if any of the 3 play in the top 9

- LAHawk


Well, Kurashev recalled who can play middle 6, and Hardman is back, so maybe he takes some of Johnson's time? Not that he's any better, but just saying that he is "an alternative".

It's nice to see Slavin bring what is expected and not try to do too much.
SaskHawkFan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: SK
Joined: 05.18.2014

Dec 8 @ 12:35 PM ET
as a ref of many years, ive seen the same hit many times. no charge, no elbow, puck is there. as don cherry says gotta keep your head up boys.
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Dec 8 @ 12:36 PM ET
Well, Panarin WAS on the receiving end of what the league deemed to be clean events last year, so...
- Tonybere


And I remember what the response was to that by Ranger fans.
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