This is a conversation that keeps coming up, though. It reminds me, in parallel of the people who mocked the idea of putting up nets around the glass in hockey after that girl, Brittanie Cecil, died in Columbus. So many people felt it was unnecessary. If we were just paying attention this stuff wouldn't happen. It was somehow _her_ fault that she had died in a way that any number of people could have - but now that the nets are up, it seems to make a lot of sense that it was done.

Similarly, we argue that players should "fight back"; that players shouldn't be pushed around. The rules clearly state what you can and can't do. There is literally no reason for Matthews or McDavid or Gretzky or Lemieux or Crosby or, or, or . . . to have to fight back. The Goddamned rules are there for a reason. When a referee stands there are doesn't do their job at all, the lack of accountability and the sheer incompetent lack of response from the NHL in the way it treats it star players and allows its officials to blatantly ignore doing their jobs is deafening. There will come a day when all of this bullpoop is changed. There will come a day when they finally stop all of this idiocy, and we will look back at statements like, "McDavid should just fight back and not let someone push him around," and realize how dumb of a statement it was.

And it will make a lot of sense that things were changed.

Until then, the dissenting voices that say, "He should have fought back," when he didn't have to are the reason the rules aren't changing the way they should.
- Monkeypunk

I'm all for the nets AND I'm all for people paying attention when they attend a live sporting event.

I'm all for the REFS for once in my lifetime calling games by the rules AND I'm all for big grown ass hockey players taking matters into their own hands until the REFS do their jobs properly.

One does not exclude the other.

Depends on which definition you use, I said a form of, this one works.
- winsix

For some personal gain

Sorry, that’s not corruption
- Canada Cup

Yeah, it's not in a legal sense. It is in the literal sense that their judgement has been corrupted - but I'm being pedantic about it.

The point is that refs get influenced by any number of factors (crowd noise, situation, relationships, personal biases - both positive and negative, game score, momentum, and by game management tactics).

Whomever just posted above about Soccer made an indirect point that I have to admit I like - getting refs who simply don't or can't have a personal relationship with any of the players by virtue of being from another country - must add a level of objectivity to it, but that's a luxury a game of soccer's size can have.

To imply that NHL refs and officials have abolutely no bias and are 100% neutral in all situations would be naive IMO. Even the notion of "evening up calls" is a bias and a form of corruption IMO.
- winsix

I genuinely believe that the vast majority of the officials are NOT biased. I also genuinely believe that the majority of the officials are pretty lousy.

How can you possibly defend (as the official) giving Matthews and Dubois the same penalties after watching that whole sequence play out 10 feet in front of you?

that's not bias per se... that's incompetence.

there's no defense for the vast majority of the stuff they try and explain away - I didn't see it! What the phuck were you looking at then?

DOPS is a completely different animal. I do believe that the results being what they are coming out of years of DOPS "derps" are self-explanatory. You simply can't look at the suspension history of Marchand and not question that lack of increasing fines or punishment for arguably the dirtiest player of the past ten - twelve years.

For some personal gain
- Canada Cup

Doesn't have to be monetary, can be personal satisfaction

I genuinely believe that the vast majority of the officials are NOT biased. I also genuinely believe that the majority of the officials are pretty lousy.

How can you possibly defend (as the official) giving Matthews and Dubois the same penalties after watching that whole sequence play out 10 feet in front of you?

that's not bias per se... that's incompetence.

there's no defense for the vast majority of the stuff they try and explain away - I didn't see it! What the phuck were you looking at then?

DOPS is a completely different animal. I do believe that the results being what they are coming out of years of DOPS "derps" are self-explanatory. You simply can't look at the suspension history of Marchand and not question that lack of increasing fines or punishment for arguably the dirtiest player of the past ten - twelve years.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Very good post, i agree with all except the bolded - only because we don't know that for sure. It could be either.

Yeah, it's not in a legal sense. It is in the literal sense that their judgement has been corrupted - but I'm being pedantic about it.

The point is that refs get influenced by any number of factors (crowd noise, situation, relationships, personal biases - both positive and negative, game score, momentum, and by game management tactics).

Whomever just posted above about Soccer made an indirect point that I have to admit I like - getting refs who simply don't or can't have a personal relationship with any of the players by virtue of being from another country - must add a level of objectivity to it, but that's a luxury a game of soccer's size can have.
- Monkeypunk

I made the point about the soccer refs. NHL hockey could quite easily statistically profile the referee's individual performance - I'm sure they score game performance in some manner by how much negative fall-out there is, how many blown calls whatever. If there's a trend between a particular ref and a particular team or player - simply don't schedule that ref for that team.

that would work for 31 teams - all except the Bruins - for the Bruins it really doesn't matter.

I'm all for the nets AND I'm all for people paying attention when they attend a live sporting event.

I'm all for the REFS for once in my lifetime calling games by the rules AND I'm all for big grown ass hockey players taking matters into their own hands until the REFS do their jobs properly.

One does not exclude the other.
- underhill14

I truly don’t know what people expect by calling games by the rules. Interpretation is always a factor in sports and law. I don’t believe that the rules on hooking have changed this year but the league has decided to interpret the rules more strictly.

Refs when they’re on the ice are watching a fast moving game, are influenced by the feel of the game (is it getting out of control) and what they actually see. They make quick decisions and sometimes they (frank) up.

And I’ll say it again, you’re going to be disappointed in Matthews not being the guy you want him to be. He’s simply not going to engage in those situations.

Very good post, i agree with all except the bolded - only because we don't know that for sure. It could be either.
- winsix

I completely get your point - and philosophically agree - HOWEVER - the problem with talking about officiating and commenting they are biased always lets them off the hook. It is an easy excuse for them to simply say that's not true - "you have no evidence"


Focus on the incompetent aspect. Ask the Ref in question how he judged that both Dubois and Matthews got the same penalties for that event. Then don't say anything and wait for a response.

The real problem (in my opinion) is that the referees as a group are not held accountable for that garbage. There is simply - in this case - no camera angle that shows a "different view", there's no "I didn't see it" or I viewed it differently. Having the officials not called out to the podium post game continues to let them off the hook. Fining the coaches or players when they lose their minds emotionally only reinforces that the officials can get away with complete garbage.

I'd like to see a suspension for the officials when the the poor judgement or missed calls are blatant.

I truly don’t know what people expect by calling games by the rules. Interpretation is always a factor in sports and law. I don’t believe that the rules on hooking have changed this year but the league has decided to interpret the rules more strictly.

Refs when they’re on the ice are watching a fast moving game, are influenced by the feel of the game (is it getting out of control) and what they actually see. They make quick decisions and sometimes they (frank) up.

And I’ll say it again, you’re going to be disappointed in Matthews not being the guy you want him to be. He’s simply not going to engage in those situations.
- Canada Cup

The bolded is not reality. It is not an imaginary stat that McDavid drew 0 penalties in last years' playoffs and was being mugged at every opportunity. It is not an imaginary stat that both McDavid and Matthews draw fewer penalties than many fourth line knuckle draggers. Fans go to games to watch great hockey. Plays like that one by Zegras last night are electrifying. That's what I'd like to see, not some thug or goon stretching rules and getting away with it - and later calling it a great defensive play. The NHL and its referees should do better, much better.

lol the jets (frank)ing suck what the (frank)
- BINGO!

They blew their load in their apparent Stanley Cup. Look at the post game that Winterpeg posted to their own Twitter. Pathetic.

I completely get your point - and philosophically agree - HOWEVER - the problem with talking about officiating and commenting they are biased always lets them off the hook. It is an easy excuse for them to simply say that's not true - "you have no evidence"


Focus on the incompetent aspect. Ask the Ref in question how he judged that both Dubois and Matthews got the same penalties for that event. Then don't say anything and wait for a response.

The real problem (in my opinion) is that the referees as a group are not held accountable for that garbage. There is simply - in this case - no camera angle that shows a "different view", there's no "I didn't see it" or I viewed it differently. Having the officials not called out to the podium post game continues to let them off the hook. Fining the coaches or players when they lose their minds emotionally only reinforces that the officials can get away with complete garbage.

I'd like to see a suspension for the officials when the the poor judgement or missed calls are blatant.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Agree

Well, it's why they deny it. I remember Kerry Fraser saying he had never called a even-up call. Some other former ref had said that they did it all the time.

I mean even ignoring what the refs say or have said: We're human beings. We're social animals. You get on the ice. You make a relationship with the ref. You make them laugh. Disarm them. You're a good guy. It makes them question what they saw when you do something. This isn't "David Clarkson: An introduction to water bottles the summer course." This is "Brad Marchand: Advanced Class 401".

Once you have a rapport with a ref it does change things. It's natural. They have a job to do, but they don't need to do it to a T if they know you.

I mean even in my work . . .if Person X in Marketing doesn't give me what I need in time, I'll escalate because screw Marketing. But if Person Y in IT, who I work with, and occasionally drink with, and play softball with, is late on a deliverable - I'll pick up the phone. I'll visit their desk. I won't escalate on them until I have literally no other recourse.

That's the human factor.
- Monkeypunk

well now this is very true... but that's only because you know that the Marketing people never really are accountable for anything, always go home early on a Friday and the IT guys always get screwed and blamed for everything.

so given that (which I completely agree with btw), who are the Leafs in the situation and who do the marketing guys represent?

They blew their load in their apparent Stanley Cup. Look at the post game that Winterpeg posted to their own Twitter. Pathetic.
- GreatGigInTheSky

oh gosh 🤦🏿‍♂️

the season is not even half way over and you guys are already blaming the refs for the loafs pending playoff collapse🤦‍♂️

may as well throw babs hutch and andersieve into the mix of excuses for these cream puffs🤦🏿‍♂️

what a (frank)ing joke🤦‍♂️

edit: nice alliteration 👍🏿

That Zegras to Milano goal was pretty sweet
- TheMussel

was it ever

I truly don’t know what people expect by calling games by the rules. Interpretation is always a factor in sports and law. I don’t believe that the rules on hooking have changed this year but the league has decided to interpret the rules more strictly.

Refs when they’re on the ice are watching a fast moving game, are influenced by the feel of the game (is it getting out of control) and what they actually see. They make quick decisions and sometimes they (frank) up.

And I’ll say it again, you’re going to be disappointed in Matthews not being the guy you want him to be. He’s simply not going to engage in those situations.
- Canada Cup

admittedly, I'm going to be a bit of dyck with the question I ask now... its not directed at you per se... but at the theme.

so, Refs are watching a fast game and making judgements - I get that - but is does seem to be more often the case that they mess up by "not making" calls more than they do when they make a call and err on the side of calling too much.

for example - call the Pionk knee -maybe call a trip if you genuinely not sure. But calling nothing there lead to exactly the gong-show that followed.

Here's the "dyck question"... so why do these officials - who are calling the same on ice event during the regular season and in the playoffs seem to be able to re-interpret the rules come playoff time? Does some magical switch go off in the heads that says "what was hooking or slashing in January doesn't apply in May"? Do the players all change uniforms and numbers suddenly in the playoffs?

What exactly makes the officials en masse call the game differently in the playoffs?

if you answer is pressure - then you are acknowledging they are allowing outside factors to influence their interpretation of the rules ON THE FLY.

In my opinion there is simply no defense for the systematic, group wide change in officiating that occurs when the playoff start. And even if this change is only 60% of the officials - why is it that a particular group feel compelled/are drugged/coerced/told to change their behavior?

there is no rational to explain it away.

make the officials come to the podium after every game as the players and coaches must - if they refuse or don't talk fine, or suspension.

What angle did you see?

https://youtu.be/Q3I69B00tC0?t=42
- Monkeypunk

I saw the one on sportsnet.ca

This one clearly shows that his chin and head was the first point of contact from the Trouba hit.

The bolded is not reality. It is not an imaginary stat that McDavid drew 0 penalties in last years' playoffs and was being mugged at every opportunity. It is not an imaginary stat that both McDavid and Matthews draw fewer penalties than many fourth line knuckle draggers. Fans go to games to watch great hockey. Plays like that one by Zegras last night are electrifying. That's what I'd like to see, not some thug or goon stretching rules and getting away with it - and later calling it a great defensive play. The NHL and its referees should do better, much better.
- winsix

exactamundo

this simply can't be the case... with Bettman's Parkinsons the ref would be constantly tapping the earpiece assuming it wasn't working...

plus Bettman can't watch all the games... cuts into his side meetings with the owners of the Bruins.
- BorjeFan4Ever

There have been a lot of funny Bettman chirps on the 'buzz. This is not one of them.

Seeing the Jets celebrate after the Leafs game like they had just won the Cup was hilarious (and pathetic) to watch. I'm hoping the Leafs play the tape back before their March rematch and just absolutely steamroll them (on the board, not the box).

Of course, we all know our stars are just going to turtle and get ragdolled but one can dream...
- mjones242

The 4th line will be Gabriel, Clifford and Simmonds -- the Goons Line

TSN has the leafs in first place in the division, first in the conference and third in the league behind Washington and FLorida....which are both behind them in the conference....
- Aaron_85

They have gone downhill with their web site.

I guess they let go too many IT people.

The 4th line will be Gabriel, Clifford and Simmonds -- the Goons Line
- zazzle

Old time hockey!

I saw the one on sportsnet.ca

This one clearly shows that his chin and head was the first point of contact from the Trouba hit.
- zazzle

this is a good example of a hit happening very fast... I could understand if an on-ice official may not have seen the chin first contact... but that said - you would logically expect a suspension for Trouba - as he does go in pretty high.

we'll see - Trouba does play for the Rangers... and I'm guessing the DOPS/Parros' brain (limited by concussion history) may be a little forgetful with all that is going on at the moment.

Parros could always suspend Kadri for the hit on Khaira

So is it possible the league handed out the 6 game suspension to allow for the appeal process to take place? The appeal brings the suspension down to 3 games and everyone looks like they played tough* during the process.

* something Turtle34, evidently, can't do.