Years after the fact
- Pegullaville

It just proves your point. Winning masks everything. Last time I checked the Blackhawks are currently losing.

buffalo has lost 2 out of every 3 games over the past 8+ seasons
- Michael Pachla

Buffalo has had a lot of terrible rosters over those years.

The Bills had how long of a playoff drought ?

Did they turn it around because Beane and McDermott coddled them and handed out participation stickers for every good deed ?

Or did they draft, sign, and trade for multiple Pro Bowlers at several positions on the roster and increase the overall talent of the 53 man roster ?

It just proves your point. Winning masks everything. Last time I checked the Blackhawks are currently losing.
- c1067

That is correct

Buffalo has had a lot of terrible rosters over those years.

The Bills had how long of a playoff drought ?

Did they turn it around because Beane and McDermott coddled them and handed out participation stickers for every good deed ?

Or did they draft, sign, and trade for multiple Pro Bowlers at several positions on the roster and increase the overall talent of the 53 man roster ?
- Pegullaville

the bills never tanked...

traded away the 10th overall pick in 2017 and traded up from the 12th pick to land allen at seven...

sorry, no comparison at all

Buffalo has had a lot of terrible rosters over those years.

The Bills had how long of a playoff drought, did they turn it around because Beane and McDermott coddled them and handed out participation stickers for every good deed ? Or did they draft, sign, and trade for multiple Pro Bowlers and several positions on the roster and increase the overall talent of the 53 man roster ?
- Pegullaville

There's talent on this team, not enough. But getting outworked and quitting on plays is not talent, it's Heart or lack of it. When a mistake happens the Sabres just multiply it. And they still haven't figured out how to stop that.

the bills never tanked...

traded away the 10th overall pick in 2017 and traded up from the 12th pick to land allen at seven...

sorry, no comparison at all
- Michael Pachla

They did try to tank when they traded Watkins and Darby I believe a week before the season started, but Tyrod took them to the playoffs.

Buffalo has had a lot of terrible rosters over those years.

The Bills had how long of a playoff drought ?

Did they turn it around because Beane and McDermott coddled them and handed out participation stickers for every good deed ?

Or did they draft, sign, and trade for multiple Pro Bowlers at several positions on the roster and increase the overall talent of the 53 man roster ?
- Pegullaville

They're winning, but a big chunk of that is thanks to #17.

If they have Andy Dalton, we're talking about a different thing here.

Yes, you need all 53 rowing in the same direction, but in no other sport is one man (the QB) so important to his team.

There's talent on this team, not enough. But getting outworked and quitting on plays is not talent, it's Heart or lack of it. When a mistake happens the Sabres just multiply it. And they still haven't figured out how to stop that.
- Buff36

Wasn’t this the plan?

They did try to tank when they traded Watkins and Darius I believe a week before the season started, but Tyrod took them to the playoffs.
- c1067

nah...they didn't tank, they just moved on from a player in watkins who was never going to live up to expectations, was a reach of a pick to begin with and was also injured all the time...dareus was a head case with off-the-field issues...

their worst finish was the 2010 season and the result was dareus at no. 3 in 2011

Wasn’t this the plan?
- c1067

one of my problems is that gerbes is talking about terry, kim and co. planning on a tank in 2022-23...

find "x" on wall, beat head

the bills never tanked...

traded away the 10th overall pick in 2017 and traded up from the 12th pick to land allen at seven...

sorry, no comparison at all
- Michael Pachla

Sure, and in the NFL you can find day 1 starters anywhere in the draft. You can also trade up multiple picks if you identify players.

How many teams do you see trade up in the NHL draft ? How long does it take for NHL players to generally hit the starting lineup if at all ?

Also, last time I checked both the Bengals and Cardinals drafted 1st overall recently, and both teams are doing quite well this year. Darn those losing cultures

They did try to tank when they traded Watkins and Darby I believe a week before the season started, but Tyrod took them to the playoffs.
- c1067

Deonte Thompson was their leading WR

nah...they didn't tank, they just moved on from a player in watkins who was never going to live up to expectations, was a reach of a pick to begin with and was also injured all the time...dareus was a head case with off-the-field issues...

their worst finish was the 2010 season and the result was dareus at no. 3 in 2011
- Michael Pachla

I believe they traded Ronald Darby their best DB as well. Their WR’s were trash on paper, yet they were good enough to make the playoffs. I also believe that year they had almost 80 million in dead money. All the makings of a tank year.

Wasn’t this the plan?
- c1067

I hope not, it's one thing to tank, but to have players quitting on plays, and not giving there best here will never change the " Culture".

"Under Don Granato they seemed to be getting better but over the past 10-15 games they seem to be getting worse...one problem that had gone away was the awareness problem. It's back big-time now where guys just have no awareness of what's going on around them and the puck's in the net.

"The other thing that is absolutely inexcusable, that absolutely needs to be addressed, is players that are giving up on plays. Against the Kraken four players were caught gliding back while Seattle scored easily. First empty net goal against Florida Rasmus Dahlin lost the puck and stopped skating around the red line. This game, Sebastian Aho goes in on a breakaway, Malcolm Subban makes the save. Casey Mittelstadt showed zero hustle getting back on the play. None. And Teravainen had an easy goal on the rebound."
--pham post-game

the culture of losing begins to take it's toll just over a quarter of the way into the season as the sabres find themselves in rough waters going 3-11-2 beginning with their last game of october

#LosingToWin
- Michael Pachla

I'm not denying that lack of full effort isn't a problem for some players on some teams. Just like it is for virtually every team in every sport. That said, can't accept it either...so The Don and staff have their work cut out as to what to correct with the 7 younger guys who will be on the roster next year.

I wonder if their losing record now is because:
- a roster comprised of Bjork, Butcher, Dell, Eakin, Hagg, Hayden, Hinostroza, Jankowski plays a small part of it
- up and down performance from the younger players in Bryson, Cozens, Dahlin, Joker, Mitts, Murray, Tage; which is a developmental issue that the Coaching staff is working on with those players to achieve consistency above the average of the up-plays and down-plays. Something that the developmental Coaching staff is focused on to correct over time

I also wonder if the analytical front office:
- is actually working to evaluate play of the team collectively and on an individual player basis in order to identify specific areas of opportunity...and across the league for potential acquisitions in order to upgrade personnel for the long haul giving consideration to player skill, age, contract value and term
- has the plan is to tank with dignity to secure elite talent in areas of critical importance...1C, 1RhD, RW..where the likelihood of landing such talent is not guaranteed but certainly has lower/zero asset cost and a much higher rate of probability.
- is working to evaluate draft prospects to increase the potential for uncovering gems in rounds 2, 3, 4 and beyond.

Now, if Adams can convince the Pegula's to remain committed to longer view rather than cave to the emotional urge to win now...man, the plan may actually work rather than the one that has produced a 10 year pace of 2 losses of every 3 games

Also, last time I checked both the Bengals and Cardinals drafted 1st overall recently, and both teams are doing quite well this year. Darn those losing cultures
- Pegullaville

I believe they traded Ronald Darby their best DB as well. Their WR’s were trash on paper, yet they were good enough to make the playoffs. I also believe that year they had almost 80 million in dead money. All the makings of a tank year.
- c1067

they drafted tre white, in the spring of 2017

he was their best cb on day 1

Sure, and in the NFL you can find day 1 starters anywhere in the draft. You can also trade up multiple picks if you identify players.

How many teams do you see trade up in the NHL draft ? How long does it take for NHL players to generally hit the starting lineup if at all ?

Also, last time I checked both the Bengals and Cardinals drafted 1st overall recently, and both teams are doing quite well this year. Darn those losing cultures
- Pegullaville

the buffalo sabres have lost 2 out of every 3 games in the last 8+ seasons

their top prizes from the tank years wanted out because they were in a losing situation

their top prize from a third last place finish in five seasons is feeling the weight of losing 145 games (117 reg losses, 28 ot) in 231 games played since he was drafted by the club...

that's a 63% loss-ratio, just slightly better than the 65% of losses that occurred since upper management went on their losing to win strategy back in 2012, almost a decade ago...

not sure what's so hard to figure out

the buffalo sabres have lost 2 out of every 3 games in the last 8+ seasons

their top prizes from the tank years wanted out because they were in a losing situation

their top prize from a third last place finish in five seasons is feeling the weight of losing 145 games (117 reg losses, 28 ot) in 231 games played since he was drafted by the club...

that's a 63% loss-ratio, just slightly better than the 65% of losses that occurred since upper management went on their losing to win strategy back in 2012, almost a decade ago...

not sure what's so hard to figure out
- Michael Pachla

Management had how many off seasons to build around Reinhart and Eichel ?

They didn’t plan to tank past 2015, they just sucked because of incompetence from the owner down to the harbor Center manager whom warped the boards.

When Buffalo traded Risto, Sam and Jack we all knew that this team would be bad. Almost everyone on this site was clambering on how great the draft is and that the Sabres will hopefully get a top two pick and how they have 3 first rounders. Now mostly everyone is bitter and salty cause they are losing. They are doing what is expected. What has changed?
- c1067

The reality now realized of 10 years of losing in the rear view mirror, along with the likely prospects of losing at the 66% rate for this season, and turning more slowly than flipping a light switch in the season after that.
Summarized, no stomach for resisting the urge to splurge in a "race to 8th" and reliving the purgatory of a roster with 50% turds and not getting high end talent to turn it around...we saw and lived that for years before 2015 ... but too far back for it to be real for many.

the desire for everyone to stop the losing?

and to further your point, only some knew they had the opportunity to get off to a great start based upon their opponents and that once the competition got better, they'd be in trouble
- Michael Pachla

Fify

Management had how many off seasons to build around Reinhart and Eichel ?

They didn’t plan to tank past 2015, they just sucked because of incompetence from the owner down to the harbor Center manager whom warped the boards.
- Pegullaville

*shrugs*

the object of playing the game is to win...anyone who's ever played organized sports plays to win...losing grates on anyone who has a whisper of integrity and athletic passion

Fify
- IonSabres

well played

when you trade eichel, reinhart, risto for futures and Hagg

your goalie walks and you replace them with anderson, dell and subban

your biggest additions are pysyk, vinny and hayden


you are suppose to lose


imagine how bad this team would be if skinner was still in a funk and the tage/asplund combo were busts

*shrugs*

the object of playing the game is to win...anyone who's ever played organized sports plays to win...losing grates on anyone who has a whisper of integrity and athletic passion
- Michael Pachla

Blasphemy