I don't even think the Ceci pickup is THAT bad. He's clearly capable of being an effective dman and his contract only looks bad when you look at the Keith contract when that was completely unnecessary.

I think you underestimate how badly players want play with McD and Draisaitl. There should be no reason to lure players with term. Because trust me, five years from now when McD is still playing great and you want to surround him with quality talent to extend the window you're going to be frustrated as hell. Just see what Rutherford did with this team.
- Rinosaur

I think it is fairly naive to say that any player is going to take a shorter deal, or less money, just to play with McD and Drai. I don't see any of that happening, Barrie being the closest example to it. Agents and players are as greedy as ever, to the extreme that nobody seems to be able to get a reasonable UFA deal anymore (hell, even RFA deals are mostly out of whack). I don't consider Holland a good GM, but the bar here is set pretty damn low. I think most GM's are incapable of building a complete team inside of the cap, they just can't help themselves, too much stupid.

Pretty much this. The Pens pinned them in for long periods at a time but can't score unless you're Jake or EliteRod lately. Oilers didn't get much, but McDavid created some amazing chances out of nothing and showed why he's the most explosive player in the game. - Tojo

Just like versus the islanders in the playoffs. Or Toronto last week, or Montreal, or Calgary. Seems to be a thing.

I think it is fairly naive to say that any player is going to take a shorter deal, or less money, just to play with McD and Drai. I don't see any of that happening, Barrie being the closest example to it. Agents and players are as greedy as ever, to the extreme that nobody seems to be able to get a reasonable UFA deal anymore (hell, even RFA deals are mostly out of whack). I don't consider Holland a good GM, but the bar here is set pretty damn low. I think most GM's are incapable of building a complete team inside of the cap, they just can't help themselves, too much stupid.
- Beergu

Just like all the people that would come to Pitt to play with Crosby and geno… and take a discount to do it…

Just like versus the islanders in the playoffs. Or Toronto last week, or Montreal, or Calgary. Seems to be a thing.
- 10inchTerror

Zucker is having his 2nd best ever season in shot production and is shooting under 4% at 5v5. It's frustrating as all hell.
Kapanen has wildly inconsistent. Even got benched for most of the third period last night.
Oh and Carter is playing to his normal level and not shooting 25% Like last year.

Malkin and Rust will allow for some line changing and hope it sparks something, but this is who they are. A well coached team lacking shooting talent.

Just like versus the islanders in the playoffs. Or Toronto last week, or Montreal, or Calgary. Seems to be a thing.
- 10inchTerror

Indeed it does. Unfortunately, nothing ever changes and they keep hoping for better shooting luck.

Indeed it does. Unfortunately, nothing ever changes and they keep hoping for better shooting luck.
- Tojo.

They'd have better shooting luck if they had better players lol

Just like versus the islanders in the playoffs. Or Toronto last week, or Montreal, or Calgary. Seems to be a thing.
- 10inchTerror

I thought that was strictly Jarry's fault.

They'd have better shooting luck if they had better players lol
- j.boyd919

Or more traffic in front IMO. A lot of guys with a history of scoring goals that just aren't.

Well... On the positive sides they are in a playoff spot dispite the putrid shooting %'s and crazy amount of injuries/covid in less than the first two months of season.. Plus Geno is getting close... So... I'm not counting these guys out yet. Their overall team game has been outstanding most nights... Just not finishing enough a lot of the nights...

Long season, yet...

Or more traffic in front IMO. A lot of guys with a history of scoring goals that just aren't.
- Tojo.

I feel like the Pens get decent traffic in front, I'd be curious to what their goals off the rush vs. sustained zone time is and compared to other teams.

I feel like the Pens get decent traffic in front, I'd be curious to what their goals off the rush vs. sustained zone time is and compared to other teams.
- j.boyd919

I've beat this dead horse a bit, yeah, they do get decent traffic, but I don't think they do it effectively enough if that makes sense. I think they can be more physical in front of the net. A little more Hornqvist-ish in front of the net.

Well... On the positive sides they are in a playoff spot dispite the putrid shooting %'s and crazy amount of injuries/covid in less than the first two months of season.. Plus Geno is getting close... So... I'm not counting these guys out yet. Their overall team game has been outstanding most nights... Just not finishing enough a lot of the nights...

Long season, yet...
- MattStrat

For sure, I expect better as the season goes on. Much as we joke about the Pens injury issues, it has to get better this year. Still think this is a playoff team.

The top line and Blueger lines are doing their jobs well IMO. Second line is disappointing with their talent but there is no chemistry. Looked better with ERod then Carter IMO.

With a great checking line they should be trying to get some offense from the last line, but they have Lafferty centering it so...

I've beat this dead horse a bit, yeah, they do get decent traffic, but I don't think they do it effectively enough if that makes sense. I think they can be more physical in front of the net. A little more Hornqvist-ish in front of the net.
- Rinosaur

Agree with this. Pens are around the net looking for rebounds or redirects, but they're letting the goalies see almost every shot.

Anyone see NSH's stadium jerseys? Wowza. (frank)ing terrible.

I think Holland is trash and has built the team terribly.

But...

Hyman and RNH deal looks incredible right now and should absolutely hold most its value over the course of the term. In 7/8 years 5 million is going to be a league average deal and both should be able to finish the term without being too embarrassing... Should. It's not like the term term takes them to 39/40... Like Keith/Smith...

I don't agree with so much of what Holland has done but outside the Keith deal this year he has somehow improved the team. Even the Keith deal, as brutal as it is, has "helped" sorta a bit.

Holland's "success", if you can call it that, seems in spite of his moves but it's hard to deny that so far this year the Oilers are playing well. While unlikely, hopefully it translates to the playoffs and I will gladly be wrong about his feeble GMing.

I think Holland is trash and has built the team terribly.

But...

Hyman and RNH deal looks incredible right now and should absolutely hold most its value over the course of the term. In 7/8 years 5 million is going to be a league average deal and both should be able to finish the term without being too embarrassing... Should. It's not like the term term takes them to 39/40... Like Keith/Smith...

I don't agree with so much of what Holland has done but outside the Keith deal this year he has somehow improved the team. Even the Keith deal, as brutal as it is, has "helped" sorta a bit.

Holland's "success", if you can call it that, seems in spite of his moves but it's hard to deny that so far this year the Oilers are playing well. While unlikely, hopefully it translates to the playoffs and I will gladly be wrong about his feeble GMing.
- Aerchon

Those contracts are going to look bad sooner than later. Obviously nobody can prognosticate when a player will hit their hard decline and as long as he remains relatively healthy, McDavid will probably be producing well until his last days, but with that said, Hyman is 29 and RNH is 28 and it's likely they both start declining in around three years while McDavid is in the heart of his prime. Those contracts are immoveable in every way possible, so when McDavid needs an upgrade the ability won't be there.

If those were five year contracts like they should have been, whoever the GM is at that point would have a much easier time ridding themselves of those players.

Zucker, Carter and Kap are all struggling... Hmmm... You'd think Sully would possibly do something to jump start those players. Carter does not look capable of driving a scoring line.

Guentz, Sid, Carter
Zucker, Erod, Kap

Pens definitely have a net front problem.

Anyone see NSH's stadium jerseys? Wowza. (frank)ing terrible.
- Rinosaur

Comical.

I've beat this dead horse a bit, yeah, they do get decent traffic, but I don't think they do it effectively enough if that makes sense. I think they can be more physical in front of the net. A little more Hornqvist-ish in front of the net.
- Rinosaur

Don’t have any players to be more hornqvist-ish in front of the net.

Don’t have any players to be more hornqvist-ish in front of the net.
- j.boyd919

I'm aware. This is an area I think they need to address.

Those contracts are going to look bad sooner than later. Obviously nobody can prognosticate when a player will hit their hard decline and as long as he remains relatively healthy, McDavid will probably be producing well until his last days, but with that said, Hyman is 29 and RNH is 28 and it's likely they both start declining in around three years while McDavid is in the heart of his prime. Those contracts are immoveable in every way possible, so when McDavid needs an upgrade the ability won't be there.

If those were five year contracts like they should have been, whoever the GM is at that point would have a much easier time ridding themselves of those players.
- Rinosaur

36 again is a far cry from 39/40 and Im almost certain the contracts in 7 years are going to be gross.

Many forwards don't signifantly decline until 33+ and some with proper conditioning can even be effective at 36. Both players current success heavily suggests they are worth FAAAAAAAAAAR more than their current cap hit. Both get +/- 7 avv on 5 year deals.

To each their own but getting a couple undervalued contracts in 5+ years for significant cap space now is the best cap management items Holland has accomplished.

You are exaggerating decline and forgetting inflation. I expect salaries to jump dramatically in the next couple years.

36 again is a far cry from 39/40 and Im almost certain the contracts in 7 years are going to be gross.

Many forwards don't signifantly decline until 33+ and some with proper conditioning can even be effective at 36. Both players current success heavily suggests they are worth FAAAAAAAAAAR more than their current cap hit. Both get +/- 7 avv on 5 year deals.

To each their own but getting a couple undervalued contracts in 5+ years for significant cap space now is the best cap management items Holland has accomplished.

You are exaggerating decline and forgetting inflation. I expect salaries to jump dramatically in the next couple years.
- Aerchon

I'm exaggerating nothing. I said AROUND three years which if you do some math brings you close to 33. The salary cap will certainly increase, but by how much we have no idea.

I'm aware. This is an area I think they need to address.
- Rinosaur

Absolutely. They maintain crazy zone times often but it’s all perimeter work and corner work.

Absolutely. They maintain crazy zone times often but it’s all perimeter work and corner work.
- 10inchTerror

Then they'll get one shot from the point that bounces off a pad and the D picks it up and clears it.

Then they'll get one shot from the point that bounces off a pad and the D picks it up and clears it.
- j.boyd919

As someone else mentioned a lot of shots right to the chest as well....opposing goalies sponging up the rebounds that way, usually.