This season, now looks identical to last season as far as results go. The injuries have not helped and continue to bury this team. Did the changes Fletch made on paper look good, yes..thought this team was going to perform vastly different, but unfortunately that offseason team has not been on the ice yet. The parts that are on the ice are not good enough collectively to compete.

MJL is correct in his assessment that if this went south we were in a bad place with the cap.

My proposals...since Chuck could not offer any (an I get why)

find suitors for Risto as the TDL approaches and look for players that are about to be NHL ready...no draft picks (unless that is the only option)...player for player swap if you can find it. And it needs to be a skilled forward.

Ask G to waive his NMC (or NTC), get him to a team to give him a shot and see a different culture. The bring him back so he can retire as a Flyer.

Trade off what you can at the TDL from all the guys on 1 yr deals. Sell them all.

Bring up kids and fill in the spots...they are not going to bake well in the AHL with all the injuries down there either.

Look for a trade partner for JVR, there has to be an option for him. Good player, but he is in the wrong system. Eat salary (up to half) if needed.

Bottom line for me is that the Flyers, even once healthy cannot climb out of this hole
- JW98FlyerFan

How is JVR in the wrong system? He is a soft player that coasts most nights. No system fits that type of player. And what kids are they going to bring up from the AHL? They have no one down there. Other than that the world is good!

How is JVR in the wrong system? He is a soft player that coasts most nights. No system fits that type of player. And what kids are they going to bring up from the AHL? They have no one down there. Other than that the world is good!
- Phillywhiteout

Other than Frost, York, and Zamula, the only other decent prospects they have in LV are all injured. This organization as a whole is just jinxed by the injury bug.

Here's what they will do today. Announce Farabee is out 4-6 weeks and recall Willman.
- PLindbergh31

For cap management reasons that probably won't happen for another couple of days

Hopefully Nate isnt out long as will need him for a playoff run.

Even a head coaching change is only going to do so much. Hopefully just get the players headed in the right direction. It won't be able to overcome Fletcher's bonehead moves.
- MJL

Bonehead moves? I think that is a bit of revisionist history...
Trade for Ellis: looked like a potential good move: pros: added a 1/2 Dman to the team. cost was not draft picks. No 1/2 d-man was ready to come up and play today. Cons: history of injuries, but none of those injuries are related to his current injury. Lost out on Myers future potential. Added 6M to the limited cap space.

Trade of Ghost looked like a flat move with how inconsistent Ghost played: pros: lost his cap hit, Cons: cost a second round pick, which seemed like the cost of doing business.

Trade for Risto: Swing for the fences move if Risto could be a better player than he showed on Buf: Pros: Brought a young and sought after young Dman into the fold. Cons: Cost Hagg and a haul of draft picks.

Jake for Atk trade: Play maker for a goal scorer. Pros: lower cap hit, but 1 more year. Got the team a goal scorer they were lacking. Cons: 1 more year of cap hit.

1 Year vet signings: Only Thompson was a head scratcher on day one of FA, but he was good on the PK. all of the others should have honestly not been playing and were very cost controlled.

What is outside of Chuck's control...injuries and depth in the farm team...hexy didn't have as many picks work out as we thought and the Flyers can't bring up much talent to fill all the holes...It is a perfect storm and they may end up worse than last year when it is all said and done...but Bonehead is a bit too strong...

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Losing Streak at Seven after 4-1 Loss at MSG
- bmeltzer

Keep frost. He’s no better or worse than anyone on the team.

How is JVR in the wrong system? He is a soft player that coasts most nights. No system fits that type of player. And what kids are they going to bring up from the AHL? They have no one down there. Other than that the world is good!
- Phillywhiteout

May better stated as JVR is on the wrong team...his style needs more speed and skill around him to take advantage of his hands in front of the net...

Kids: Frost is up, keep him..Allison as soon as he is ready, he stays and then Zamula and York...they can't be as bad a Seeler.

Keep frost. He’s no better or worse than anyone on the team.
- SuperSchennBros

Frost isn't going anywhere. He is here to stay

Frost isn't going anywhere. He is here to stay
- bradster

He’s quite frail. We’ll see if he can survive a season

Frost isn't going anywhere. He is here to stay
- bradster

believe it when I see it. He needs to get acclimated to the NHL game. Simple as that. You let him play unless he just flat out plays as bad as Thompson.

Goal or not Frost did play better the last two games. Seems like some want to take it as an opp to say I told you so.. the guy needed to get his timing back on the farm and he did. Now he is playing well. What’s the issue? Isn’t that a good thing?

Did Jake and Ghost not play last year? Did they not contribute to the shyt show which was our season? The Flyers did not get it done with those guys playing. They didn’t. Now they are gone which they should be. If it warms your cockles when they put up pts these days then great. Enjoy yourselves. Our pp was not great or even good last year and no one wanted Ghost for free. Absolutely not one GM wanted him. 0. Did Jake ever strike you as the kinda player that was going to pickup this team when they were down and lead them? Did he ever do that when it mattered?

Thats cute he complained to the media at times and did not give the usual standard answer, but that did not help them win. Especially when it mattered.

Speaking of being down and facing adversity.. the coach needs to be canned cause he simply has not shown any ability to successfully navigate out of a difficult spot. This team sucks when facing adversity. The coach needs to pay the price for that. He needs to pay that price right now. We all know it’s coming. Why are we wasting time? Do we have a better pulse on this team than the GM or is he not allowed to fire him yet? Either way AV must go.

That is not a reactive response. It’s 2 years and 21 games of not leading this team properly. This includes when they were a decent team two years ago. They still had serious deficiencies even then.

This is not a Philly fans are being impatient thing. This is a - the team sucks and has for a while thing. Let’s go already.

Ironic. The GM that was brought in for his Bias for Action is now going to be stubborn and sit on his hands, despite the overwhelming evidence that a coaching change, and some serious self reflection on the bone-headed moves, is needed.

That is incompetence, plain and simple. From Dave Scott on down.

Bonehead moves? I think that is a bit of revisionist history...
Trade for Ellis: looked like a potential good move: pros: added a 1/2 Dman to the team. cost was not draft picks. No 1/2 d-man was ready to come up and play today. Cons: history of injuries, but none of those injuries are related to his current injury. Lost out on Myers future potential. Added 6M to the limited cap space.

Trade of Ghost looked like a flat move with how inconsistent Ghost played: pros: lost his cap hit, Cons: cost a second round pick, which seemed like the cost of doing business.

Trade for Risto: Swing for the fences move if Risto could be a better player than he showed on Buf: Pros: Brought a young and sought after young Dman into the fold. Cons: Cost Hagg and a haul of draft picks.

Jake for Atk trade: Play maker for a goal scorer. Pros: lower cap hit, but 1 more year. Got the team a goal scorer they were lacking. Cons: 1 more year of cap hit.

1 Year vet signings: Only Thompson was a head scratcher on day one of FA, but he was good on the PK. all of the others should have honestly not been playing and were very cost controlled.

What is outside of Chuck's control...injuries and depth in the farm team...hexy didn't have as many picks work out as we thought and the Flyers can't bring up much talent to fill all the holes...It is a perfect storm and they may end up worse than last year when it is all said and done...but Bonehead is a bit too strong...
- JW98FlyerFan

I agree with most of this, but a GM’s number one job is to choose and fire and choose a coach. At the NHL level and the AHL level that has been seriously mismanaged. The injuries impact both the GM and the coach so you can’t just blame the coach for the current state of the team and not also blame GM to an extent.

I feel like Tortorella is a good choice and our coach must go. I feel our coach does not get the best out of players but Tortorella does. If not him that’s the kind of guy I want in here. You can make the argument that putting an interim coach in for now makes sense. I’m all ears. I just know the current coach must go.

Ironic. The GM that was brought in for his Bias for Action is now going to be stubborn and sit on his hands, despite the overwhelming evidence that a coaching change, and some serious self reflection on the bone-headed moves, is needed.

That is incompetence, plain and simple. From Dave Scott on down.
- StepfordSam

Dave Scott has very little to do with how the Flyers are run. Lets start with removing Homer if we really want fresh voices running this team from the top down.

Dave Scott has very little to do with how the Flyers are run. Lets start with removing Homer if we really want fresh voices running this team from the top down.
- mochoson

How much say does Homer have these days?

I really don't know enough about Briere's management ceiling to have an opinion on him.

I just hope whoever it is, that they separate out the President role and put somebody there with enough weight to stand up to the Comcast suits. They could really use a strong buffer between ownership and the GM.
- Tomahawk

Huge mistake and blunder on Holmgren and Scott's part to give Fletcher not only the GM title but also President of hockey operations. What has he done in his career to get that?

random thoughts…

1. Giroux was the best Flyers forward last night in creating scoring chances. I really didn’t think it was close. Couturier has looked just a bit off all year, but he was not one of the main problems last night. TK, Atkinson and JVR all not being a threat to score definitely is. Losing Farabee to injury took away one of the few guys that had their game going. They are not getting scoring from the defense either.
2. When the Flyers were looking at adding a top RHD this past offseason and we discussed on here Ellis had an injury history, we talked about his size and style of play. It seemed that they could not just add him because Ellis would miss games. In adding a second top 4 defenseman, one would think it would be so that a guy on the second pairing would be able to fill in for Ellis when he is out. It has not been tried. If that was not the plan, then I question the plan.
3. Right now, Seeler is the 6th defenseman (7th depth guys don’t play 90% of games), but he is playing up in the pairings. The Yandle and Braun pairing works but that limits the options. I would like if they tried Zamula for a few games. It is not ideal, but if Big Z knows going in that it is a temporary opportunity to help the big club, it will be fine.
4. I heard the TV analysts say that the Flyers are a desperate team. I agree that they should be. It was not a complete lack of effort, but for a desperate team, the second and third efforts were lacking many times, whether that was defensively, blocking a shot, battling for a puck, reaching for a pass, getting in better position or getting a shot off. Be desperate because this is desperate. The season is on the line this week.
5. For a team struggling to control play, to score and trailing in the game, I can’t stand them giving up possession for a line change. Defend, defend, obtain puck possession, dump and get a line change, defend, defend…it wasn’t the whole game but I don’t like it at all. Keep the puck unless you are shooting at their net or passing to a teammate. Oversimplified, but still…come on!
6. Also need better screens. Maybe try Risto at net front on the PP. He is a better door than a window.

How is JVR in the wrong system? He is a soft player that coasts most nights. No system fits that type of player. And what kids are they going to bring up from the AHL? They have no one down there. Other than that the world is good!
- Phillywhiteout

That is simply not true about JVR. The issue is that nobody is going to trade a quality asset in return and take on his full salary of 7M next year for a goal scorer that hasn't been scoring. No matter how hard he plays

Just my thoughts since the start of the season.

- Boy not hitting on Patrick has hurt big time. Actually missing on the 1st and 2nd round picks from the 2017 draft have hurt. That pick not developing almost forced the Hayes signing since you needed a center behind Couturier. I know everything is hindsight but just an observation. But man Maker and Heiskanen are studs.

- I thought AV was a good coach but maybe this whole thing needs to be redone. I am not sure who is out there that could come in a help as you rebuild this. I always thought Luke Richardson could be a solid choice. Not just that he is a former Flyer but he did well with a young minor team when in Ottawa system.

- I know the feeling is that we can't start over because of all these moves that were made this offseason but sometimes you just have to say "I was wrong". This team still has some pieces that if you do a small rebuild, you have players to build around. You have vets like Couturier, Hayes, Provorv, Hart, Farabee, Ellis to build with. Guys like Allison, Frost, York that look like young players that can help in the future.

- Is it time to ask Giroux if he wants to go win a cup. Its the question that has been out there. I know he has a NMC. But would he really pass on a chance to win a cup as he is on the back end of his career?

-Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom. Are these guys part of the future? Are they inconsistent due to coaching and system or they just not as good as we want them to be. I don't know. They seem to always leave me wanting more.

Again I am not sure what the right answers are. I know you can't just trade everyone and fire everyone but as much as I hoped things would change its seems we are in purgatory and that is the most frustrating part.

Goal or not Frost did play better the last two games. Seems like some want to take it as an opp to say I told you so.. the guy needed to get his timing back on the farm and he did. Now he is playing well. What’s the issue? Isn’t that a good thing?

Did Jake and Ghost not play last year? Did they not contribute to the shyt show which was our season? The Flyers did not get it done with those guys playing. They didn’t. Now they are gone which they should be. If it warms your cockles when they put up pts these days then great. Enjoy yourselves. Our pp was not great or even good last year and no one wanted Ghost for free. Absolutely not one GM wanted him. 0. Did Jake ever strike you as the kinda player that was going to pickup this team when they were down and lead them? Did he ever do that when it mattered?

Thats cute he complained to the media at times and did not give the usual standard answer, but that did not help them win. Especially when it mattered.

Speaking of being down and facing adversity.. the coach needs to be canned cause he simply has not shown any ability to successfully navigate out of a difficult spot. This team sucks when facing adversity. The coach needs to pay the price for that. He needs to pay that price right now. We all know it’s coming. Why are we wasting time? Do we have a better pulse on this team than the GM or is he not allowed to fire him yet? Either way AV must go.

That is not a reactive response. It’s 2 years and 21 games of not leading this team properly. This includes when they were a decent team two years ago. They still had serious deficiencies even then.

This is not a Philly fans are being impatient thing. This is a - the team sucks and has for a while thing. Let’s go already.
- Joe Nardone

I think they haven't got rid of AV yet, because its also the players fault and their lack of effort. Firing the coaches signals the players are not the issue and it is coaching. But really its both that's the issue, the players and coaches. Coaches for not a good system and not holding players accountable, and the players having pi$$ poor effort night after night.

How much say does Homer have these days?
- Joe Nardone

I think him and Clarke still carry quite a bit of weight.

For everyone talking about the coaching is the problem. Coots (28) has been with the Flyers for 10 years & if AV gets the axe Coots will
be playing for his 5th different coach (not including Gordon). That screams the issue is clearly not coaching wake up

Bonehead moves? I think that is a bit of revisionist history...
Trade for Ellis: looked like a potential good move: pros: added a 1/2 Dman to the team. cost was not draft picks. No 1/2 d-man was ready to come up and play today. Cons: history of injuries, but none of those injuries are related to his current injury. Lost out on Myers future potential. Added 6M to the limited cap space.

Trade of Ghost looked like a flat move with how inconsistent Ghost played: pros: lost his cap hit, Cons: cost a second round pick, which seemed like the cost of doing business.

Trade for Risto: Swing for the fences move if Risto could be a better player than he showed on Buf: Pros: Brought a young and sought after young Dman into the fold. Cons: Cost Hagg and a haul of draft picks.

Jake for Atk trade: Play maker for a goal scorer. Pros: lower cap hit, but 1 more year. Got the team a goal scorer they were lacking. Cons: 1 more year of cap hit.

1 Year vet signings: Only Thompson was a head scratcher on day one of FA, but he was good on the PK. all of the others should have honestly not been playing and were very cost controlled.

What is outside of Chuck's control...injuries and depth in the farm team...hexy didn't have as many picks work out as we thought and the Flyers can't bring up much talent to fill all the holes...It is a perfect storm and they may end up worse than last year when it is all said and done...but Bonehead is a bit too strong...
- JW98FlyerFan

It was a complete overcorrection on his part. You have to ask why Nashville trades a legit top pairing RH defenseman and the best return they can get is Myers and Patrick? Why is that? It's because other teams weren't willing to beat that deal for a 30is injury prone player with 6 years left on his deal.

I'd have rather kept Gostisbehere than trade for Ristolainen.

If a GM Is trading a 1st, 2nd and roster player to swing for the fences. That GM is an idiot. Ristolainen has always been a mediocre player and he continues to be that. If you had a really strong defense, you may be able to hide him and get decent minutes. He is also not the right defenseman for the Flyers needs and for what wins in the NHL. You need defenseman who can defend certainly and win puck battles but you need skating passing and puck moving. The transition game is of utmost importance in today's NHL. With the makeup of the Flyers defense, even with Ellis, Ristolainen is the wrong kind of player. This was a major blunder by the GM.

Atkinson is a player that needs a high level playmaker to play with to score at a high rate. Even with that, his best goal scoring days may be over. He's a better all around player but in this setting, other than some early hot shooting and some plays on the PK. He has not been effective. The Flyers first and foremost miss Voracek's playmaking and puck transition skills. If you make a deal to fill a hole but create a hole. You haven't made a good deal unless you make another deal that fills that. The gamble on Yandle has not paid off.

Brassard is looking to be a decent deal as hopefully he can help the 4th line.

Goal or not Frost did play better the last two games. Seems like some want to take it as an opp to say I told you so.. the guy needed to get his timing back on the farm and he did. Now he is playing well. What’s the issue? Isn’t that a good thing?

Did Jake and Ghost not play last year? Did they not contribute to the shyt show which was our season? The Flyers did not get it done with those guys playing. They didn’t. Now they are gone which they should be. If it warms your cockles when they put up pts these days then great. Enjoy yourselves. Our pp was not great or even good last year and no one wanted Ghost for free. Absolutely not one GM wanted him. 0. Did Jake ever strike you as the kinda player that was going to pickup this team when they were down and lead them? Did he ever do that when it mattered?

Thats cute he complained to the media at times and did not give the usual standard answer, but that did not help them win. Especially when it mattered.


- Joe Nardone

Not sure how anyone can look at what is happening now and still believe that Voracek and Gostisbehere were the issue. What the Flyers did is lessen their skill level.

Huge mistake and blunder on Holmgren and Scott's part to give Fletcher not only the GM title but also President of hockey operations. What has he done in his career to get that?
- MJL

I feel like I do about the Phillies. The Tampa Rays always finds players and make really good moves for a low budget baseball team. So when looking for a GM or front office personnel why would you not raid there organization.

Same with Flyers. Why not look at team like Tampa and raid there organization. they always seem to find talent and make good moves and have players that come up and seemed to have develop well.

I know not exactly the same.