What exactly can McGuire tell us that’ll ease our minds?

Anyone who actually believed this team was going to make noise in the Atlantic…is living on a different planet.

-We have only 1 reliable dman, who’ll eventually get overworked (if he hasn’t already) and hurt (can’t wait to see how that looks)

- No good/reliable centers outside of Norris…who at this moment is not fit to be your #1c (but could get paid like one because this team is thin down the middle)…which creates havoc amongst your other forwards

-Inconsistent goaltending

-Coach that can’t adapt and reward players who are actually playing well.

So. With all this.

Not sure why everyone is shocked and looking for answers. The problems around this team were the same pre-covid.

Everyone just look toward the draft and hope the Sens don’t get screwed out of that again and again and again
- Trilla

He can lay out what the team's direction is, how the endless false statements by Dorion and Melnyk never materialized. What they are doing to rectify those false statements. I have wrote about it for a few days now on here and on Twitter.....I don't want to repeat it all here, but read my tweets and see why. I have had endless fans agree with my what I have wrote on Twitter and here.

Good post. Some players just take longer to develop, and the World Juniors is a mix of early bloomers and players with players just eligible to compete due to late birthdays and then look much better than they actually are.

While frustrating to not see a prospect make a perennial favorite team like USA, it’s not the end of the world. Although, the Boucher pick was eyebrow raising at the time, this certainly doesn’t help the cause.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Agreed! I would love to see Boucher with the 67's rather than playing with guys so much older than him at the NCAA level.

At this point why bother trying to trade and beef up the line up.
Season is over.
Pain for Shane.

Lets just keep losing.
- Octavarium

Agreed! But that's why it would be nice if management said to the fan base, hey this is what we are doing, like they did when they announced the rebuild. Tell the fans what the NEW plan is for this year now that they wont take a step forward like Dorion told us to start the season.

Was the defense group in 2018/2019 better than this years or did Chabot just thrive under Guy Boucher's coaching style? It is strange with how good he was back then seeing how not necessarily bad he's playing now but just more anemic.

Is it the lack of Demelo or a lack of a decent defense structure under DJ compared to the strict systems of Boucher. (Not saying Boucher was a fantastic coach)

They better get Forsberg the win after the way he’s playing 😳

Was the defense group in 2018/2019 better than this years or did Chabot just thrive under Guy Boucher's coaching style? It is strange with how good he was back then seeing how not necessarily bad he's playing now but just more anemic.

Is it the lack of Demelo or a lack of a decent defense structure under DJ compared to the strict systems of Boucher. (Not saying Boucher was a fantastic coach)
- TDBSenatoR

I think its a combo of things. No steady defense partner, coaching for sure, or should I say no defensive system. Plus look who is surrounded by? Plus Ottawa hasn't played in 5 man units, with Boucher he had a bunch of vets that did.

They better get Forsberg the win after the way he’s playing 😳
- sens4life1971

Yes for sure! Look at how many shots directed at the goal, not just the shot count!

Tyler Boucher is 18 years old. He has the tools. He's not doing much from a scoring point of view but reports say he's playing positionally sound hockey and is always is always playing with intensity. I think I'll wait a bit before I write him off.
- Whatisavailable

Nobody is talking about writing him off, but having sound positioning and playing with intensity is just an awful measure of success. That's what you expect from your 4th line, or an AHL injury call-up... not a 1st round pick. Not to mention that "he has the tools" is an utterly meaningless statement. What are you basing that on? He barely played any hockey in his draft year, and has effectively done very little this year other than amass a lot of penalty minutes and earn a suspension. Now maybe those lost games last year hurt his development, and he needs more time... but at some point you have to deliver on the speculation.

I'm honestly not sure where people's standards or basic expectations have gotten to. Even this business that at least a WJC camp invitation isn't a relatively standard expectation for 1st round picks is simply not true. Lazar, Chabot, White, Brown, Norris, Brannstrom, Bowers, Tkachuk, Bernard-Docker, Thomson, Stutzle, Greig, Sanderson... it's only every single 1st round pick they've made in the past decade, or traded for. Not to mention something the vast majority of 2nd round picks have accomplished as well, including Englund, Chlapik, Dahlen, Formenton, Pinto, Sogaard, Jarventie, Kleven, and Sokolov. As I said, Boucher still has next year to get his game anywhere close to that level, but pretending it's not an expectation with significant precedent is borderline ignorant.

Well that was fun although I only caught the end.

Just follow that system and they'll win ever game.

Great to see the top line push back within just 20 seconds of giving up the game-tying goal... that's evidence of them starting to play for each other, and make sure Forsberg wasn't denied the win. That's where Murray really failed them in terms of giving up soft goals at critical moments... it just crushes the team's competitive spirit to be put in losing situations like that over and over, especially by one of the highest paid players on the team.

Nobody is talking about writing him off, but having sound positioning and playing with intensity is just an awful measure of success. That's what you expect from your 4th line, or an AHL injury call-up... not a 1st round pick. Not to mention that "he has the tools" is an utterly meaningless statement. What are you basing that on? He barely played any hockey in his draft year, and has effectively done very little this year other than amass a lot of penalty minutes and earn a suspension. Now maybe those lost games last year hurt his development, and he needs more time... but at some point you have to deliver on the speculation.

I'm honestly not sure where people's standards or basic expectations have gotten to. Even this business that at least a WJC camp invitation isn't a relatively standard expectation for 1st round picks is simply not true. Lazar, Chabot, White, Brown, Norris, Brannstrom, Bowers, Tkachuk, Bernard-Docker, Thomson, Stutzle, Greig, Sanderson... it's only every single 1st round pick they've made in the past decade, or traded for. Not to mention something the vast majority of 2nd round picks have accomplished as well, including Englund, Chlapik, Dahlen, Formenton, Pinto, Sogaard, Jarventie, Kleven, and Sokolov. As I said, Boucher still has next year to get his game anywhere close to that level, but pretending it's not an expectation with significant precedent is borderline ignorant.
- khawk

I might be way off here but I'm getting the feeling that you don't approve of the Sens having selected Boucher at the number ten spot.

I doubt whether anyone is overjoyed with Boucher's performance to this point. It's just that some of us are open to the possibility that he's actually a better player than he's shown this season so far.

A number of people have stated their belief that we would have been better off with Sillinger. The reports on him are that he's not that great a skater and doesn't have any defensive awareness. He's a one trick pony with his good shot, at least until Dmen around the league get wise to him and shut him down.

I'll take Boucher over Sillinger every time thank you very much. Then again I don't consider good size, good skating ability, good shot, good hands, defensive awareness, driving the net and playing aggressively to be meaningless attributes in a player.

I might be way off here but I'm getting the feeling that you don't approve of the Sens having selected Boucher at the number ten spot.
- Whatisavailable

What I don't approve of is some people going around pretending that 1st round pick-quality players don't have a set of fairly clear markers about whether they're developing well or not. Instead, it's a bunch of airy-fairy statements about how difficult it is to tell with prospects, and making every excuse possible to not acknowledge that Boucher isn't exactly making Dorion look smart for making such a bold move at the draft to select him. No acknowledgement of the precedent I mentioned of virtually every other 1st/2nd round pick from the past decade? Guess that makes some people happy, but it's starting to feel more like blind faith.

What I don't approve of is some people going around pretending that 1st round pick-quality players don't have a set of fairly clear markers about whether they're developing well or not. Instead, it's a bunch of airy-fairy statements about how difficult it is to tell with prospects, and making every excuse possible to not acknowledge that Boucher isn't exactly making Dorion look smart for making such a bold move at the draft to select him. Guess that makes some people happy, but it's starting to feel more like blind faith.
- khawk

I don't think you can give Dorion all the credit for the players the Sens select at the draft. I would be more inclined to believe that Mann has more to say on the matter.

I hope Boucher has a good coach the next couple of years to help him develop to his fullest potential.

I might be way off here but I'm getting the feeling that you don't approve of the Sens having selected Boucher at the number ten spot.

I doubt whether anyone is overjoyed with Boucher's performance to this point. It's just that some of us are open to the possibility that he's actually a better player than he's shown this season so far.

A number of people have stated their belief that we would have been better off with Sillinger. The reports on him are that he's not that great a skater and doesn't have any defensive awareness. He's a one trick pony with his good shot, at least until Dmen around the league get wise to him and shut him down.

I'll take Boucher over Sillinger every time thank you very much. Then again I don't consider good size, good skating ability, good shot, good hands, driving the net and playing aggressively to be meaningless attributes in a player.
- Whatisavailable

Really? You take the player with 2 goals and 3 points in the NCAA over the guy with 4 goals and 9 points in the NHL every time? This statement makes perfect sense.

Really? You take the player with 2 goals and 3 points in the NCAA over the guy with 4 goals and 9 points in the NHL every time? This statement makes perfect sense.
- dcz28

I tend to think longer term than twenty game segments. Let's see what's happening with both these guys in a year or two.

I tend to think longer term than twenty game segments. Let's see what's happening with both these guys in a year or two.
- Whatisavailable

Sure, things could change but to say you take Boucher over Sillinger EVERY TIME? Come on, Boucher is struggling offensively in the NCAA while Sillinger is doing ok in the NHL. At this point Boucher is not even a sure thing to even play a game in the NHL while Sillinger already is doing it.

I don't think you can give Dorion all the credit for the players the Sens select at the draft. I would be more inclined to believe that Mann has more to say on the matter.

I hope Boucher has a good coach the next couple of years to help him develop to his fullest potential.
- Whatisavailable

I HATE the strategy Sens are going after -- to many f**ing U.S. players. two way, grit... when I hear that I know this means they don't have high end skill. Look at the guys they've drafted from the U.S. in the first round (beyond top 5 picks)

2015: Colin White (bust)
2016: Logan Brown (buster)
2017: Shane Bowers (nothing but a bust)
2019: Shane Pinto (32nd would be a first right now - TBD)
2020: Jake Sanderson (over Drysdale who is ripping it)
2021: Tyler Boucher (will be the next bust

Enough with the love fest for U.S. Players. Watch what this looks like now:

2015: Ilya Samsonov
2016: Jake Bean
2017: Henri Jokiharju
2019: Nils Hoglander
2020: Jamie Drysdale
2021: Cole Sillinger (U.S. ok, but get a center!)

Looking at the HB comments on the Flyer board yesterday regarding Fletcher’s state of the union press conference, I don’t think the fans took any solace from it. Fletcher said they needed to have Ellis and Hayes back before they could assess properly. Everyone on the team is in a slump at the same time. Injuries and blah blah blah.They wanted AV and CF gone. You may be right that it could be beneficial for the Sens but the reaction from the Flyer fans was very negative.

I'll take Boucher over Sillinger every time thank you very much. Then again I don't consider good size, good skating ability, good shot, good hands, defensive awareness, driving the net and playing aggressively to be meaningless attributes in a player.
- Whatisavailable

See, this is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. It's apparently too early for people to point out his lack of developmental progress, based on actual game performances, the impression of the majority of hockey pundits, and the decisions of hockey organizations like USA Hockey management... yet never too early to make 100% unsubstantiated declarations about his supposed mastery of so many hockey attributes. In fact, he's not only good, but now for some reason has to be better than those people drafted after him, with no objective rationale even attempted.

Whatever... moving on.

I HATE the strategy Sens are going after -- to many f**ing U.S. players. two way, grit... when I hear that I know this means they don't have high end skill. Look at the guys they've drafted from the U.S. in the first round (beyond top 5 picks)

2015: Colin White (bust)
2016: Logan Brown (buster)
2017: Shane Bowers (nothing but a bust)
2019: Shane Pinto (32nd would be a first right now - TBD)
2020: Jake Sanderson (over Drysdale who is ripping it)
2021: Tyler Boucher (will be the next bust

Enough with the love fest for U.S. Players. Watch what this looks like now:

2015: Ilya Samsonov
2016: Jake Bean
2017: Henri Jokiharju
2019: Nils Hoglander
2020: Jamie Drysdale
2021: Cole Sillinger (U.S. ok, but get a center!)
- AlfieisKing

Personally I would prefer drafting Canadian players.

I don't know at all but I think drafting all these US players might have something to do with no money for a bigger scouting staff and the bias of the scouts they do have. Also I think they get to watch them develop for a couple of extra years before needing to sign an ELC. Or am I completely wrong?

I HATE the strategy Sens are going after -- to many f**ing U.S. players. two way, grit... when I hear that I know this means they don't have high end skill. Look at the guys they've drafted from the U.S. in the first round (beyond top 5 picks)

2015: Colin White (bust)
2016: Logan Brown (buster)
2017: Shane Bowers (nothing but a bust)
2019: Shane Pinto (32nd would be a first right now - TBD)
2020: Jake Sanderson (over Drysdale who is ripping it)
2021: Tyler Boucher (will be the next bust

Enough with the love fest for U.S. Players. Watch what this looks like now:

2015: Ilya Samsonov
2016: Jake Bean
2017: Henri Jokiharju
2019: Nils Hoglander
2020: Jamie Drysdale
2021: Cole Sillinger (U.S. ok, but get a center!)
- AlfieisKing

It's not really a matter of being from the USA or not, it's a lack of focusing on high-value talent, instead of making safe choices. Boeser would have been a far better choice than Samsonov, McAvoy would have been a far better choice than Bean, Bowers isn't even American, Pinto is just fine as a two-way C, and I wouldn't say it's clear that Drysdale will be a more valuable defenceman than Sanderson when the dust settles. Hopefully Boucher picks it up, but even if he achieves full potential it's hard to really see him as more than a 3RW-type player.

That said, I think there's truth to the suggestion that a lack of robust scouting underpins a lot of their "safe" picks, which tends to favour two-way play and "character" over exceptional skill. And while that's okay to have as part of the the team's skill mix, the organization seems to be on the verge of a dangerous amount of group-think regarding the over-valuing of big bodies, and being "hard to play against'. At some point, you have to worry about being "hard to beat", which at some point necessitates putting the puck in the net more than your opponents.

See, this is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. It's apparently too early for people to point out his lack of developmental progress, based on actual game performances, the impression of the majority of hockey pundits, and the decisions of hockey organizations like USA Hockey management... yet never too early to make 100% unsubstantiated declarations about his supposed mastery of so many hockey attributes. In fact, he's not only good, but now for some reason has to be better than those people drafted after him, based on a similar lack of any kind of objective reasoning. Whatever... move on.
- khawk

Actually that's all taken from the scouting reports on Boucher and I'm just assuming they're reasonably accurate. I don't know if he's better than all the people drafted after him but I did look at Sillinger and didn't like what I read.

One guy that did look interesting was Fedor Svechkov but there might be others.

Anyway we've got Boucher and I am goingr to give it time.

It's not really a matter of being from the USA or not, it's a lack of focusing on high-value talent, instead of making safe choices. Boeser would have been a far better choice than Samsonov, McAvoy would have been a far better choice than Bean, Bowers isn't even American, Pinto is just fine as a two-way C, and I wouldn't say it's clear that Drysdale will be a more valuable defenceman than Sanderson when the dust settles. Hopefully Boucher picks it up, but even if he achieves full potential it's hard to really see him as more than a 3RW-type player.

That said, I think there's truth to the suggestion that a lack of robust scouting underpins a lot of their "safe" picks, which tends to favour two-way play and "character" over exceptional skill. And while that's okay to have as part of the the team's skill mix, the organization seems to be on the verge of a dangerous amount of group-think regarding the over-valuing of big bodies, and being "hard to play against'. At some point, you have to worry about being "hard to beat", which at some point necessitates putting the puck in the net more than your opponents.
- khawk

C'mon , I don't think it's just by chance that these guys are all from the U.S.

I do see your point and I would put Boeser there, but the goalie is solid as well

Two-way skill and character can EASILY be built when a kid is only 17-18 years old. Just think what most kids are doing that age. Raw talent and high end skill is something this team needs - especially down the middle of the ice and on defense - right side

C'mon , I don't think it's just by chance that these guys are all from the U.S.

I do see your point and I would put Boeser there, but the goalie is solid as well

Two-way skill and character can EASILY be built when a kid is only 17-18 years old. Just think what most kids are doing that age. Raw talent and high end skill is something this team needs - especially down the middle of the ice and on defense - right side
- AlfieisKing

They have skilled guys in Stutzle and Formenton but instead of playing them together with Stutzle at C and Formenton on LW they're burying both those guys. I would have Batherson on the RW and have that line pin back the ears of Dmen around the league and make them worry about crossing the center ice line whenever that trio is out there.

C'mon , I don't think it's just by chance that these guys are all from the U.S.

I do see your point and I would put Boeser there, but the goalie is solid as well

Two-way skill and character can EASILY be built when a kid is only 17-18 years old. Just think what most kids are doing that age. Raw talent and high end skill is something this team needs - especially down the middle of the ice and on defense - right side
- AlfieisKing

Right, but you also didn't mention Tkachuk, and skipped over all of Chabot, Bernard-Docker, Thomson, Stutzle, and Greig... none of whom are from the USA. That's why I think the safe pick and easy scouting arguments are stronger than the USA-specific argument. Either way, I agree they have a major need for skilled talent that's not being properly addressed.