Adding to this, I think Lindblom is another player that might not make it if he doesn't turn it around asap. JVR is definitely gone after this year one way or another. TK might also be traded in the off season, and its not a lock G is coming back. RR is not a lock to be resigned despite what some think about Fletcher being in a corner, he's not!
- jd250

When teams don’t play well, eventually changes are going to be made. The Moves Fletch made in the off season were more then justified. Was there enough moves ? Did they bring the right guys in? Did he get rid of the right guys? Nobody wishes as much as me that Hextall’s plan would have worked but it did not. I really hoped AV and the all star cast of ex coach’s could help structure the veteran core and the young guys coming up. It’s just hasn’t happened on a consistent basis.
You look at how many guys aren’t playing up to their potential and it’s a small wonder this team is where it is. I’m not sure Fletch will be able to make the right decisions…hopefully he surprises me. So in my mind we’ve gone from one GM who failed and was fired with cause to another that seems lost for answers….all I know is the Flyers fans deserve better then this.

If and when Hayes becomes a role playing center with a cap hit of 7+M. How the young players are playing won't matter. When Atkinson becomes a declining 3rd line winger or Ellis can't stay healthy. How the young players are doing won't matter. They will still be a deterrent to building a quality team.
- MJL

If Ellis is able to play he can be moved at any time. That is a big if though.

Hayes is one contract. You can have one contract that is an overpay. Not saying you should just saying that is not the be all end all.

I think the Atkinson-Voracek trade is a wash in terms of long term effect cap wise. Obviously, both players will decline. I do think what Atkinson offers ages better than what Voracek offers. In the end, both will get paid too much.

be honest and state the entire quote otherwise stay quiet office clown! What I said is if this team is not in playoff contention by end of January they should be sellers at the deadline and try to get more assets to take advantage of what is considered to be a deep draft.
- jd250

https://hockeybuzz.com/bo...p?thread_id=176169&page=6


"Since the Rangers kicked off their rebuild in 2017 they have 4 1st round picks and 4 2nd round picks playing for them and contributing. The Rangers are young and fast, and showing they are for real this year. The Flyers are currently old and slow, they're a dinosaur on skates trying to compete in a faster modern game. Its time for a true rebuild here, and I believe if things don't turn around soon it will start at the deadline. CF who is typically available to the media has turned down meeting requests over the past 2 weeks, maybe that is an indication that he knows more changes need to be made? "

And there it is folks, the agenda of MJL ... it always comes back to Hextall's firing. This guy has ZERO credibility in regards to anything he says about Fletcher or management!
- jd250

(regardless of being a tad leight on this)
So stating facts has become an agenda now?

just yesterday you said it was time to do a full rebuild....
- THE BLACK HAND

I guess it comes down to whether the right or wrong side of the bed was woke-up on. Maybe that's also how Fletch works.

If Ellis is able to play he can be moved at any time. That is a big if though.

Hayes is one contract. You can have one contract that is an overpay. Not saying you should just saying that is not the be all end all.

I think the Atkinson-Voracek trade is a wash in terms of long term effect cap wise. Obviously, both players will decline. I do think what Atkinson offers ages better than what Voracek offers. In the end, both will get paid too much.
- mickel25

If Ellis is able to play you keep him.

I do. I think all they care about is the bottom line and as long as that's fine, they'll allow the team to spend money. Wins and losses (and OT losses) are meaningless to them. The Flyers are just a line item in their portfolio.
- Scoob

You think they fired Hextall because of money? Attendance was pretty steady.

And thats why RR will be valuable at the trade deadline, someone will want....need that. the expiring contract is helpful at that point.
- bradster

I want to see how he plays for the next 2 months. I still think he can be a very good top 4. I don’t think the idea was to only bring him in for one year. If that was the case then Fletch made a brutal trade. You don’t move a 1rst rnd pick for a one year rental unless your one of the top 4 teams in the league and a legitimate Cup threat. I can’t believe he’s that stupid.

https://hockeybuzz.com/boards/176169/thread.php?thread_id=176169&page=6


"Since the Rangers kicked off their rebuild in 2017 they have 4 1st round picks and 4 2nd round picks playing for them and contributing. The Rangers are young and fast, and showing they are for real this year. The Flyers are currently old and slow, they're a dinosaur on skates trying to compete in a faster modern game. Its time for a true rebuild here, and I believe if things don't turn around soon it will start at the deadline. CF who is typically available to the media has turned down meeting requests over the past 2 weeks, maybe that is an indication that he knows more changes need to be made? "
- MJL

You also have to include that Panarin and Fox forced there way to NYR. That advanced there "rebuild" a lot. They also had two top picks. They did make some good trades. However, without Fox and Panarin they are a bottom feeding team. Even with them they are a maybe playoff team.

Again they are fun to watch. However, they have a few steps left before they are a cup contender.

If Ellis is able to play you keep him.
- hello it's me 2050

Agreed. Just responding to the specific post.

my post was sarcasm -- any time av was criticized certain people would bring this up, every time.
- corduroy

my bad lol

If Ellis is able to play you keep him.
- hello it's me 2050

Of course you do…this guy is a legit top pairing d. We have to hope he can stay healthy.

If Ellis is able to play he can be moved at any time. That is a big if though.

Hayes is one contract. You can have one contract that is an overpay. Not saying you should just saying that is not the be all end all.

I think the Atkinson-Voracek trade is a wash in terms of long term effect cap wise. Obviously, both players will decline. I do think what Atkinson offers ages better than what Voracek offers. In the end, both will get paid too much.
- mickel25

Look at the value that Nashville got for a legitimate top pairing RH defenseman. Why do you think that was the case? Now he has had more injury issues. Do you think teams will be lined up to take that with 5 more years on the deal at 6M?

Atkinson has one more year than Voracek. Sure, Atkinson might wind up a decent 3rd line or 4th line checking winger at 5M. Always a good value.

You think they fired Hextall because of money? Attendance was pretty steady.
- MJL

No, not at all. I think Dave Scott made a poor knee-jerk decision. He, and Comcast, don't know hockey and it shows.

I want to see how he plays for the next 2 months. I still think he can be a very good top 4. I don’t think the idea was to only bring him in for one year. If that was the case then Fletch made a brutal trade. You don’t move a 1rst rnd pick for a one year rental unless your one of the top 4 teams in the league and a legitimate Cup threat. I can’t believe he’s that stupid.
- landros 2

He took a risk. A bad risk imo for the reason you stated. RR can very easily decide to test free agency. While the GM may want to keep him it isn't up to him.

Agreed. Just responding to the specific post.
- mickel25

That is unlikely it seems. Plus when he is healthy you know AV will play him into the ground.

Look at the value that Nashville got for a legitimate top pairing RH defenseman. Why do you think that was the case? Now he has had more injury issues. Do you think teams will be lined up to take that with 5 more years on the deal at 6M?

Atkinson has one more year than Voracek. Sure, Atkinson might wind up a decent 3rd line or 4th line checking winger at 5M. Always a good value.
- MJL

You are painting the worst case scenario. Sure that may play out.

Is Voracek going to remain a top line producer throughout his contract?

Not saying either move is one I would have made. But I do not think either contract will be what hurts this team long term. Committing to a handful of young players that are not performing to expectations is what will be the main issue with this team. IF TK is scoring 30 regularly, Farabee is producing 70+ regularly, Hart plays like he has this season consistently, Coots play at a Selke level and Laughton and Lindblom add depth scoring this team would be fine. Only one of those things is happening right now.

You have been yelling from the mountain tops at how great cf filled all the holes this off season and now you are pushing this garbage out of your mouth?

To quote Ed Lover, "come on son"
- corduroy

Show me one post where I stated CF filled *all* the holes? I'll wait! What I said is he addressed major issues on the team, including getting a legitimate top pairing defenseman to play with Provey, getting a physical defenseman and getting more shots with Cam. I never, ever posted that Fletcher filled all the holes on this team. In fact I have been stating since the summer that this team had a major hole at center given Hayes injury and that I didn't believe Frost would be ready to play at the start of the season, which I was also right about! So its clear the only person spewing garbage around here is you!

You are painting the worst case scenario. Sure that may play out.

Is Voracek going to remain a top line producer throughout his contract?

Not saying either move is one I would have made. But I do not think either contract will be what hurts this team long term. Committing to a handful of young players that are not performing to expectations is what will be the main issue with this team. IF TK is scoring 30 regularly, Farabee is producing 70+ regularly, Hart plays like he has this season consistently, Coots play at a Selke level and Laughton and Lindblom add depth scoring this team would be fine. Only one of those things is happening right now.
- mickel25

Exactly!

https://hockeybuzz.com/boards/176169/thread.php?thread_id=176169&page=6


"Since the Rangers kicked off their rebuild in 2017 they have 4 1st round picks and 4 2nd round picks playing for them and contributing. The Rangers are young and fast, and showing they are for real this year. The Flyers are currently old and slow, they're a dinosaur on skates trying to compete in a faster modern game. Its time for a true rebuild here, and I believe if things don't turn around soon it will start at the deadline. CF who is typically available to the media has turned down meeting requests over the past 2 weeks, maybe that is an indication that he knows more changes need to be made? "
- MJL

Seems pretty consistent to me! I stated it very clearly, its time for a rebuild if things don't turn around, and I stand by that statement. I personally do not think things will turn around enough for the Flyers to not be sellers at the deadline unfortunately. A lot will ride on Ellis and Hayes coming back, and Frost being able to add offense to the center position.

Show me one post where I stated CF filled *all* the holes? I'll wait! What I said is he addressed major issues on the team, including getting a legitimate top pairing defenseman to play with Provey, getting a physical defenseman and getting more shots with Cam. I never, ever posted that Fletcher filled all the holes on this team. In fact I have been stating since the summer that this team had a major hole at center given Hayes injury and that I didn't believe Frost would be ready to play at the start of the season, which I was also right about! So its clear the only person spewing garbage around here is you!
- jd250

what is the difference between a "hole" and a "major issue"?

Every move cf made you declared was great - just the other day I asked you to regal us with what a great job cf did and you doubled down.

Thinking about calling you Double Down Clown from here on out

Show me one post where I stated CF filled *all* the holes? I'll wait! What I said is he addressed major issues on the team, including getting a legitimate top pairing defenseman to play with Provey, getting a physical defenseman and getting more shots with Cam. I never, ever posted that Fletcher filled all the holes on this team. In fact I have been stating since the summer that this team had a major hole at center given Hayes injury and that I didn't believe Frost would be ready to play at the start of the season, which I was also right about! So its clear the only person spewing garbage around here is you!
- jd250

you talk out of every side of your mouth and cant keep all of the inane poop you say straight.

ill be the office clown. You are the joke

When teams don’t play well, eventually changes are going to be made. The Moves Fletch made in the off season were more then justified. Was there enough moves ? Did they bring the right guys in? Did he get rid of the right guys? Nobody wishes as much as me that Hextall’s plan would have worked but it did not. I really hoped AV and the all star cast of ex coach’s could help structure the veteran core and the young guys coming up. It’s just hasn’t happened on a consistent basis.
You look at how many guys aren’t playing up to their potential and it’s a small wonder this team is where it is. I’m not sure Fletch will be able to make the right decisions…hopefully he surprises me. So in my mind we’ve gone from one GM who failed and was fired with cause to another that seems lost for answers….all I know is the Flyers fans deserve better then this.
- landros 2

I honestly don't see what you see in Fletcher. He seems competent and in control to me, and I liked a lot of what he said yesterday. Hextall was clearly fired for issues outside of his plan, it was more around being hard to work with and shutting people out. But clearly his plan was to rebuild through the draft and he didn't do a good job of that, plain and simple. Right now Hart is the best player drafted by Hextall but lets be clear, he was developed by Fletcher and AV. Farabee may turn out to be a solid forward as well as TK, but these guys are not top-end talent. Provey is a good Dman overall but clearly has not developed into the top-end defenseman he had hoped he would be. Lindblom is not adding value right now, Sanheim is inconsistent at best, and Patrick was a bust. Not good enough, not even close to good enough and that is what is killing this team right now more than anything else.

He took a risk. A bad risk imo for the reason you stated. RR can very easily decide to test free agency. While the GM may want to keep him it isn't up to him.
- hello it's me 2050

True….I’ll reserve judgement on whether it was a bad risk for the time being.

what is the difference between a "hole" and a "major issue"?

Every move cf made you declared was great - just the other day I asked you to regal us with what a great job cf did and you doubled down.

Thinking about calling you Double Down Clown from here on out
- corduroy

I’m not sure why people constantly reply to him, his comments are outrageous at times and he just keeps going and going. I blame MJL for constantly entertaining it