I actually can, but I won't, because it might summon the 4 horsemen.

However, they were all terrible. Barry Sanders is the only reason those teams ever finished with a winning record.

However, once again, the issue of QB gets raised. If Barry Sanders had a competent QB even one season in Detroit, he might have actually seen some kind of success in the post-season.

QB was the difference between the careers of Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders. And being an elite RB got neither of them anywhere.
- BeadyEyedDouche

can you name any wr's that played with sanders?...or any of their coaches...or how their defenses ranked?...how about tight ends?

Yeah, it is a good thing for them.

Are you honestly saying you wouldn’t prefer to have them?
- sbroads24

Of course I would.

Having an elite QB guarantees nothing by regular season success though, unless you’re Houston and win 4 games despite Watson having one of the best seasons of the century

This is such a load of crap lol

It's like saying Gretzky wouldn't have even scored 20 goals in today's NHL. Okay, pump the brakes, he might not have scored 92, but he would have been a 50-goal, 100-point guy every single year.

Likewise, might as well say Ovechkin wouldn't have scored 50-goals in the 70's-era NHL but we all know he would have been putting up 100 a year playing against those goalies and would absolutely be dominating physically even then.

I just never understand this "If player X played in Era X he wouldn't be X" argument. It's literally impossible to know.
- BeadyEyedDouche

It's like saying the dominator wouldn't be good or able to stop a beachball....

like dilfer, b. johnson, jeff hostetler, joe flacco, mark rypien?
- Michael Pachla

Oh my

Swann and Stallworth made Bradshaw look better than he was
- sbroads24

he got them the ball

4-0 in super bowls

no way am I saying bradshaw is top 4 qb of all time, but it's saying something when you lead a team to 4 super bowls and win them all


my top 5 in order is
brady
montana
peyton
marino
fouts

but staubach and bradshaw are in my top 10 with young, rodgers, and probably elway

Of course I would.

Having an elite QB guarantees nothing by regular season success though, unless your Houston and win 4 games despite Watson having one of the best seasons of the century
- Pegullaville

I don’t understand this point though

In order to have an opportunity at postseason success you need to have regular season success

And by your logic of a great QB guarantees you regular season success then the postseason is filled with mostly great QB’s

Swann and Stallworth made Bradshaw look better than he was
- sbroads24

right!?...in addition he had harris/blier behind a top offensive line, a defense that's considered one of the greatest of all time and a hall of fame coach...

staubach had similar attributes on his team as well...

but to set the story straight, i am of the opinion that they were great qb's as their hall of fame status would indicate

This is such a load of crap lol

It's like saying Gretzky wouldn't have even scored 20 goals in today's NHL. Okay, pump the brakes, he might not have scored 92, but he would have been a 50-goal, 100-point guy every single year.

Likewise, might as well say Ovechkin wouldn't have scored 50-goals in the 70's-era NHL but we all know he would have been putting up 100 a year playing against those goalies and would absolutely be dominating physically even then.

I just never understand this "If player X played in Era X he wouldn't be X" argument. It's literally impossible to know.
- BeadyEyedDouche

The rules in the NFL have vastly changed. The league for the last 20 years has catered to offense and protecting the QB. If you look at the QB wrong you get a 15 yard penalty. Back in the day they got head slapped, clothes lined, driven into the ground ect ect. Just look at the WR position. They were grabbed and interfered with the entire route. Just imagine Elway, Montana, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Rice, Brown Reed Ect Ect playing in this era.

Another fantastic supporting cast too.

You think Aaron would have won last year with that defence and getting to throw the ball to Evans, Brown, Godwin, Gronk ?

poop Aaron almost beat Tom regardless of it, but his coach had small hands and kicked the FG
- Pegullaville

Same team the year before with a poop QB was 7-9, allowed a ton of points because Winston gave the ball away 40 times, next year, SB.

right!?...in addition he had harris/blier behind a top offensive line, a defense that's considered one of the greatest of all time and a hall of fame coach...

staubach had similar attributes on his team as well...

but to set the story straight, i am of the opinion that they were great qb's as their hall of fame status would indicate
- Michael Pachla

what separated staubach and bradshaw from stabler and fran, the big 4 in that era

they beat stabler and fran

And by your logic of a great QB guarantees you regular season success then the postseason is filled with mostly great QB’s
- sbroads24

mahomes, allen, rodgers and brady were the final 4 qb's last year

they were also the best 4 qb's last year

Of course I would.

Having an elite QB guarantees nothing by regular season success though, unless you’re Houston and win 4 games despite Watson having one of the best seasons of the century
- Pegullaville

It gives you a 86% chance of winning the superbowl in the last 29 years. Wanna guess how I did that Math?

Damn thought I was done with this….

So Brendan Lemieux but someone?

The rules in the NFL have vastly changed. The league for the last 20 years has catered to offense and protecting the QB. If you look at the QB wrong you get a 15 yard penalty. Back in the day they got head slapped, clothes lined, driven into the ground ect ect. Just look at the WR position. They were grabbed and interfered with the entire route. Just imagine Elway, Montana, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Rice, Brown Reed Ect Ect playing in this era.
- c1067

this is a good post...d-linemen abused qb's back in the day...db's leveled opposing receivers with impunity...all of this was considered good, clean, hard-nosed play

what separated staubach and bradshaw from stabler and fran, the big 4 in that era

they beat stabler and fran
- homiedclown

fran tarkenton was known more for his scrambling than anything and the snake was a great quarterback that should be mentioned in the same breath as staubach and bradshaw

mahomes, allen, rodgers and brady were the final 4 qb's last year

they were also the best 4 qb's last year
- homiedclown

Yeah, I don’t think this debate should be a thing

Usually it’s great QB’s left when it gets to the final few teams

Usually the best all around team with one of those great QB’s win the super bowl

that's not true...it started with the philly/giants game and a failure to look at the eagles offense in it's totality (3 int's by hurts, with two of them in the red zone) and devolved from there...

he never said that brady was not an elite quarterback, what he did point out was that in some of his wins his play wasn't elite...he mentioned peyton's win with denver recognizing he was an elite qb but did not have an elite game in that sb win...

way too much getting twisted
- Michael Pachla

The argument (today) was the giants game. You've been around, this is not the initial argument. This has been going on for years.

I know what he's saying. He's wrong.

I know what you're saying, clarifying peg'sville's remarks.

He's given opinions on players and era's that he has heard about 2nd hand.

IE : Dan Marino and peg's is a 20 something year old guy....who clearly didnt "live it" like you and me.

There's so much more than the stats that go into quarterbacking in the nfl. He was an elite leader in all of the winning superbowls. ☝️

Elite play and leadership put him in the position.

fran tarkenton was known more for his scrambling than anything and the snake was a great quarterback that should be mentioned in the same breath as staubach and bradshaw
- Michael Pachla

fran was no slug
9 pro bowls and 2 mvps

stabler was fearless

this is a good post...d-linemen abused qb's back in the day...db's leveled opposing receivers with impunity...all of this was considered good, clean, hard-nosed play
- Michael Pachla

Not only was it allowed it was encouraged and celebrated. The likes of Deacon Jones and Richard Butkus wouldn’t be allowed in today’s NFL.

The argument (today) was the giants game. You've been around, this is not the initial argument. This has been going on for years.

I know what he's saying. He's wrong.

I know what you're saying, clarifying peg'sville's remarks.

He's given opinions on players and era's that he has heard about 2nd hand.

IE : Dan Marino and peg's is a 20 something year old guy....who clearly didnt "live it" like you and me.

There's so much more than the stats that go into quarterbacking in the nfl. He was an elite leader in all of the winning superbowls. ☝️

Elite play and leadership put him in the position.
- Boss34

i love digging into stuff like this...keeps me on my toes

Same team the year before with a poop QB was 7-9, allowed a ton of points because Winston gave the ball away 40 times, next year, SB.
- Wetbandit1

The Bucs did not have a top 5 defence the previous year.

Winston also had the Saints sitting pretty prior to getting hurt.

Winston is better than people give him credit for.

fran was no slug
9 pro bowls and 2 mvps

stabler was fearless
- homiedclown

agreed...especially with what he had to do in those atrocious elements

like dilfer, b. johnson, jeff hostetler, joe flacco, mark rypien?
- Michael Pachla

Yep, you're right.

Wish the bills had those guys over Kelly right?

There are always examples that buck the system, thanks for pointing in out.

no way...marino tops them...can't say anything about johnny u, but staubach and bradshaw were great, but not as good as marino, imo...

i put brady in the joe montana category (and above him) for the way he precisely ran the offense of a hall of fame coach (in his case, the g.o.a.t)...rogers goes in the marino/fouts category of incredibly gifted passers who did things very few others could do...

peyton is a hybrid and needs to be considered one of the greatest ever
- Michael Pachla

I disagree with Homie - Dan Marino didn't play in the passer-era, he ushered that era into the NFL over the course of his career.

The longevity, stats, success of Brady place him in the top-3 and that cannot be argued. However, I think last year he solidified himself as the best to ever play the game.

People forget Peyton's early playoff struggles. He was absolutely dreadful. He was 3-6 his first 6 years in the playoffs and even the year he won the Super Bowl he was god awful, throwing 3 TD's and 7 INT's. But that Super Bowl came down to two people: Peyton Manning vs. Rex Grossman. Playing a top-5 defense, and with a bottom-10 defense, the elite QB won, even despite his non-elite play.

Any list has to have Manning and Brady in the top-5, arguably top-3. The 3rd guy on that list is what's hard to argue.

I put Manning, Rodgers, Young and Marino in the same category. All numbers guys who should have had way more playoffs success and won more championships than they did.

Then you have the Brady, Bradshaw, Rothlisbergers and Montanas. Guys who put up solid numbers and managed the gameplan to perfection, with a few all-time great seasons for their time.

Then you have your Eli Mannings, Troy Aikmans, Joe Flaccos and Nick Foles types. Average QB's who can turn it up a notch in the playoffs and had everything go right for them while playing out of their minds.

Finally, the Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfers of the world. Baby, even the losers get lucky sometimes.

However, we've beaten this argument to death. Almost all Super Bowl QB's except for a few have been HoF players, elite at their position. Almost all Super Bowl and regular season MVP's have been QB's. Despite all of the other factors that have led to NFL Championships - Elite defense, run and stop the run, etc... The one thing that holds constant throughout NFL history is the team with the better QB wins 3/4 times, and you need elite QB play to have continual success in the NFL.

Brady
Manning
Montana
Marino
Rodgers


Off the top of my head. Those are the 5 names that came to me.

It gives you a 86% chance of winning the superbowl in the last 29 years. Wanna guess how I did that Math?

Damn thought I was done with this….
- ZiggyBuff

But, the other 14%

Oh my!