hard to argue that the draft isn't the main key to success... kinda makes you look in Trevor's direction and wonder how the (frank) he was able to be there for so long.
- Pat1993

While we will never know for sure, I still think Galchenyuk and KK were MB's call. At the end of the day.it is all up to MB... Be it the picks themselves or who he has entrusted to make those picks.

Not saying TT is blameless, just saying I do not think he was solely responsible.

I am kind of indifferent on TT, other than he needs to go for change sake, as I would be for any head scout. With all the information available today - either in-house, the media or central scouting, etc... - I think the draft has come down to strategy of how you draft now, who might pick what around you, etc... Either BPA or organizational needs, or how you think it is best to build a team by which positions.

They can all get fired, IDC. But drafting is not like it was 10-15 years ago...

hard to argue that the draft isn't the main key to success... kinda makes you look in Trevor's direction and wonder how the (frank) he was able to be there for so long.
- Pat1993

Very good point. They need to clean house. Again, if you follow the plan with the highest probability, you are much more likely to draft a superstar with a lottery pick than you are with the fifteenth pick. The good news is there's already a lot of good to very good young talent in the system. The rebuild could be a fast one with a little luck.

While we will never know for sure, I still think Galchenyuk and KK were MB's call. At the end of the day.it is all up to MB... Be it the picks themselves or who he has entrusted to make those picks.

Not saying TT is blameless, just saying I do not think he was solely responsible.

I am kind of indifferent on TT, other than he needs to go for change sake, as I would be for any head scout. With all the information available today - either in-house, the media or central scouting, etc... - I think the draft has come down to strategy of how you draft now, who might pick what around you, etc... Either BPA or organizational needs, or how you think it is best to build a team by which positions.

They can all get fired, IDC. But drafting is not like it was 10-15 years ago...
- Mashadar

I think Bergevin is a micro manager. The while reason why Ducharme was given the job is so he could tell him what to do.

Molson to home depot cashier.

"Are you French?"
"Yes"
"Good public speaker?"
"I gave a pretty good speech at my sister's wedding."
"Want to be my gm?"
"I don't follow hockey,"
"Perfect! Just do everything Gorton tells you to do."

French gm problem solved.
- hunglikeapuck

loll, I think this is less of an issue than we might think. as I previously mentioned I wonder if there are any currently available anglophone candidates that would be more qualified and would definitely outperform those that are in the francophone pool....

While we will never know for sure, I still think Galchenyuk and KK were MB's call. At the end of the day.it is all up to MB... Be it the picks themselves or who he has entrusted to make those picks.

Not saying TT is blameless, just saying I do not think he was solely responsible.

I am kind of indifferent on TT, other than he needs to go for change sake, as I would be for any head scout. With all the information available today - either in-house, the media or central scouting, etc... - I think the draft has come down to strategy of how you draft now, who might pick what around you, etc... Either BPA or organizational needs, or how you think it is best to build a team by which positions.

They can all get fired, IDC. But drafting is not like it was 10-15 years ago...
- Mashadar

considering how you more or less despised Bergevin I find this kind of surprising. Timmins has been a common denominator in this organization for quite some time, and his track record definitely doesn't leave me indifferent lol

loll, I think this is less of an issue than we might think. as I previously mentioned I wonder if there are any currently available anglophone candidates that would be more qualified and would definitely outperform those that are in the francophone pool....
- Pat1993

But the problem isn't whether or not the new GM speaks French. The problem is he HAS to be French and limiting the pool.

But the problem isn't whether or not the new GM speaks French. The problem is he HAS to be French and limiting the pool.
- hunglikeapuck

but that's my point, if there aren't any obvious stand-outs in the anglophone pool compared to the candidates in the french one, then they aren't really missing out on anything...

but that's my point, if there aren't any obvious stand-outs in the anglophone pool compared to the candidates in the french one, then they aren't really missing out on anything...
- Pat1993

Ok...but I think you would agree, at a minimum, the odds of finding a standout candidate goes up substantially if you include the possibility of hiring an anglophone, right?

None of it matters but that's the crux of it.

considering how you more or less despised Bergevin I find this kind of surprising. Timmins has been a common denominator in this organization for quite some time, and his track record definitely doesn't leave me indifferent lol
- Pat1993

Not saying TT is blameless, nor am I suggesting he should not be sent packing.

What I am saying is that drafting nowadays is more about direction of the organization downwards than finding and picking specific players.

All players are known quantities now (well, except for the COVID lack of playing time the last few years), that I would bet most teams have pretty much the same ranking of players - maybe some a little higher (or lower) - in the first 3 rounds.

You are never going to run into a scenario anymore, such as when the Habs selected Svoboda as he magically walks into the forum, and everyone else was like.... Wait! We could have.drafted.that guy? You just do not find guys hidden in some place no one looked anymore.

The consensus top 25 players are usually gone by the end of the 1st round, the top 50 by the end of the second.

Most kids are just hit or miss, and it is likely other organizations would make the same pick around the same place.

So yes, TT has been around to make good picks and bad ones. He has also seen picks traded away pointlessly he never got to use, and got some back on other drafts. But I still believe in today's NHL, it is the GM that is setting the direction and making specific calls on the first few rounds.

Ok...but I think you would agree, at a minimum, the odds of finding a standout candidate goes up substantially if you include the possibility of hiring an anglophone, right?

None of it matters but that's the crux of it.
- Takemedrunkimhome

I guess what I mean by "stand-out" would be someone with proven success and that even before the interview you know is a notch over all the other candidates... mathematically speaking what you say is definitely true, but my point is the habs might not be shooting themselves in the foot all that much with this, as many are claiming.

Not saying TT is blameless, nor am I suggesting he should not be sent packing.

What I am saying is that drafting nowadays is more about direction of the organization downwards than finding and picking specific players.

All players are known quantities now (well, except for the COVID lack of playing time the last few years), that I would bet most teams have pretty much the same ranking of players - maybe some a little higher (or lower) - in the first 3 rounds.

You are never going to run into a scenario anymore, such as when the Habs selected Svoboda as he magically walks into the forum, and everyone else was like.... Wait! We could have.drafted.that guy? You just do not find guys hidden in some place no one looked anymore.

The consensus top 25 players are usually gone by the end of the 1st round, the top 50 by the end of the second.

Most kids are just hit or miss, and it is likely other organizations would make the same pick around the same place.

So yes, TT has been around to make good picks and bad ones. He has also seen picks traded away pointlessly he never got to use, and got some back on other drafts. But I still believe in today's NHL, it is the GM that is setting the direction and making specific calls on the first few rounds.
- Mashadar

I agree with everything you're saying, except I find you might be downplaying the extent to which Timmins did a poor job. not sure where I'd find that kind of info but I'd be curious to compare his track record with his peers across the league over the years, I'm sure he's among the worst of the bunch.

I guess what I mean by "stand-out" would be someone with proven success and that even before the interview you know is a notch over all the other candidates... mathematically speaking what you say is definitely true, but my point is the habs might not be shooting themselves in the foot all that much with this, as many are claiming.
- Pat1993

They are. It's a process type situation where even if it works out, the results shouldn't solely matter, the process is flawed because it ignores the majority (more anglo candidates than franco by a good margin) in favour of language politics.

Again, none of it matters because it's a situation that isn't changing but yes, the Habs policy is absolutely shooting themselves in the foot

why...?
- Pat1993

Molson should make a man of himself, fire Bergevin, hire Gorton, put him président and GM as interim until he hires the next GM…

Best for the organization is to stop that poop show but we will go through another (frank)ing drama…

They are. It's a process type situation where even if it works out, the results shouldn't solely matter, the process is flawed because it ignores the majority (more anglo candidates than franco by a good margin) in favour of language politics.

Again, none of it matters because it's a situation that isn't changing but yes, the Habs policy is absolutely shooting themselves in the foot
- Takemedrunkimhome

meh, like I said I don't feel they are missing out on a bunch of vastly superior candidates. personally I'd prefer not having the language prerequisite at all but it doesn't represent such a huge handicap either.

I agree with everything you're saying, except I find you might be downplaying the extent to which Timmins did a poor job. not sure where I'd find that kind of info but I'd be curious to compare his track record with his peers across the league over the years, I'm sure he's among the worst of the bunch.
- Pat1993

No, I am saying the Habs as an organization did a terrible job,.and that includes TT. But if the Habs just got rid of TT and did nothing else, I do not think they would do any better. The Habs organizational strategy and direction from the GM would have been the same.

Molson should make a man of himself, fire Bergevin, hire Gorton, put him président and GM as interim until he hires the next GM…

Best for the organization is to stop that poop show but we will go through another (frank)ing drama…
- TheInformer697041

officially speaking he might not be the one directly firing Bergevin, but his decision-making still leads to the same result. I don't think it's a matter of Molson being too chickenpoop to do it himself, but hey, to each his own.

meh, like I said I don't feel they are missing out on a bunch of vastly superior candidates. personally I'd prefer not having the language prerequisite at all but it doesn't represent such a huge handicap either.
- Pat1993

What percentage of "hockey people" or "potential GM candidates" do you think are franco vs anglo? My guess is best case scenario 20% of candidates speak french, likely much less. If you limit the talent pool that you're searching through by adding a language filter, you're missing out on those potential candidates. I'm not sure how this is debatable. So we can agree to disagree I guess

What percentage of "hockey people" or "potential GM candidates" do you think are franco vs anglo? My guess is best case scenario 20% of candidates speak french, likely much less. If you limit the talent pool that you're searching through by adding a language filter, you're missing out on those potential candidates. I'm not sure how this is debatable. So we can agree to disagree I guess
- Takemedrunkimhome

like I said, I agree with you that it's disadvantageous mathematically speaking, but at the end of the day the francophones they hire are usually just as competent as the ones in the non-french-speaking pool, so they aren't missing out all that much after all. but yeah we're going around in circles, agree to disagree

They need an interim GM now. He should try to make a bold move right away. Girard is a puck moving D man the Avs need to move. The Avs need secondary scoring. Something involving Toffoli or Anderson + pick(s) could get it done.

like I said, I agree with you that it's disadvantageous mathematically speaking, but at the end of the day the francophones they hire are usually just as competent as the ones in the non-french-speaking pool, so they aren't missing out all that much after all. but yeah we're going around in circles, agree to disagree
- Pat1993

Good enough for me.

They need an interim GM now. He should try to make a bold move right away. Girard is a puck moving D man the Avs need to move. The Avs need secondary scoring. Something involving Toffoli or Anderson + pick(s) could get it done.
- Minnyhock

So they need to rush in a guy with no long term skin in the game to make a franchise altering trade? Makes sense

So they need to rush in a guy with no long term skin in the game to make a franchise altering trade? Makes sense
- Takemedrunkimhome

Can't wait to see the poopstorm from people when everything is not fixed 2-3 weeks after the changes are made...

Other than some off ice changes, I don't expect to see much player movement (if any at all) until closer to the deadline.

Can't wait to see the poopstorm from people when everything is not fixed 2-3 weeks after the changes are made...

Other than some off ice changes, I don't expect to see much player movement (if any at all) until closer to the deadline.
- Mashadar

yeah the "honeymoon period" usually doesn't last very long in MTL...

Can't wait to see the poopstorm from people when everything is not fixed 2-3 weeks after the changes are made...

Other than some off ice changes, I don't expect to see much player movement (if any at all) until closer to the deadline.
- Mashadar

Yup.

The one advantage of a rebuild/tear down is that you can take your time. You're not the team who needs to get better/fix their team for "this" season.

The Habs should take their time and do it right

So they need to rush in a guy with no long term skin in the game to make a franchise altering trade? Makes sense
- Takemedrunkimhome

This Girard opportunity is here now. It fills a need for the Habs. I don’t think an interim GM has full autonomy. Gorton and others in the brain trust would be involved.