Torts was very hard on Dubois but he taught him quite a bit about how to become a dominant player. Dubois was outstanding in that 5 game bubble series vs Toronto in the 1st shortened season. And now he is maturing into that dominant type player.

And speaking of Getzlaf, ever hear Troy Terry who is on a huge roll this year, talk about Getzy as his linemate. "Large scary man with eyes in the back of his head, lays it on my stick when I didn't even know I was open"

And Getzlaf decided to play this year for the same salary as Strome.
- RickJ

Torts is like Bobby Knight. He will break you down to nothing like they do a marine and build you back up the "correct" way. Not everyone has the ability to come out the other side of such training without needing meds and a weekly visit to a head doctor but the ones that do are pros in every sense of the word.

As Hawk fans we had to get over the Getzlaf-Perry Ducks. We know how good and nasty they are. W hat totally sold me on Getzlaf was a play vs DET. Zetterburg went down/flopped/dove behind the Duck net and it incensed Getzlaf. With the play still going on in his zone he bent over and with his face sticking out of his helmet that never fits he said to Z, "get the fu@# up you fu@&$(* cu&%". Could read his lips clear as day.... He's been my guy ever since.

Reminded me of Carlton Fisk getting into Dion Sander's face for not moving out of the box and running to first on a pop fly.......... Men who play the game like a man.

Wouldn't mind checking out a USHL game or 2 when I am in Chicago in December. Assume best thing is to check out the Steel schedule.
- RickJ

Adam Fantilli went off for a natural hattrick last night at Dubuque. Go to a Steel game and see the kid who's sure to go top 5 TWO yrs from now. Kid is a beast.

Look, Major Junior is still better than the USHL. Reason being a Mercer, Rossi, Zary, Krebs, Glass, Suzuki in the USHL moves onto the NCAA when he's 19. Their very best players leave at 19. All but a handful of MJ players are stuck there until they're 20. The USHL's best players are gone at 19, MJ best players are stuck there so you see better hockey.

That said no jr team on earth has had more players drafted than the Chicago Steel the last 2 yrs. You will enjoy a game, I promise, and if you wanna drop me a line I'll meet you there and we'll sit with 20 scouts.

Is that the time frame for the player to reach his peak? I'd expect that there needs to be evident growth on the way to that peak? In other words, would a big player look better at 250 games than at 100? (Not a question about Dach, just a general question about the metric).
- mohel

Yea, it's simply the data that shows 200 games for a smaller player and 300-400 for a bigger one. But no trajectory is linear and it's just the average. ........ He searched for data that would help him draft fantasy players and the data showed him you can draft a kid in rd 16 who had 30 points the yr before and 175 games played and the data showed at the 200 mark kids took off.

Dmen take longer, think it's 400 games, on average. .......... I'll see if I can hunt down Dobber's explanation.

A bit on Dobber's Theory. Written in 2020 read the breakout candidates. https://dobberhockey.com/...al-fourth-year-breakouts/

"One of the more popular methods is to look at players who could have a breakout campaign in their fourth year. Many believe a player can see a 25 percent increase in production in their fourth season.

Probably the best recent example of the fourth-year breakout is Travis Konecny. He went from a sub-50-point player in his first three seasons to a 76-point pace this year.

Dobber has recently tweaked this method from the fourth season to a 200- and 400-game threshold that was floated by DobberHockey reader 'Striker'. An average-sized forward (between 5-10 and 6-2, or between 171 and 214 pounds) will start to break through after 200 regular season games. For a player who averages around 70 games a season, that 200-game threshold comes at the end of their third season or the start of their fourth year. Defensemen and smaller-sized forwards need 400 NHL regular season games."

If you have an hour one helluva podcast with Jeff Marek talking to Kevin Woodley about goaltenders and the position itself. Great listen, informative.

https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/31-thoughts/

Nice to get that third W in a row last night

One thing I noticed that seemed a little odd was that I though Gaudette was penciled in to play but then never did. Was he replaced by Johnson or someone else last minute?

Some things that stuck out to me:

- Blind passing: There were a number of instances a Hawk would whirl around and blindly pass in hopes another Hawk was there. It worked some of the time thankfully, but was often picked off. They also threw the puck up the middle quite a bit and AZ had the neutral zone pretty locked down for most of those passes.

- Stuff it home: On the Hawk Power Plays there were two separate instances where Toews had the puck down low (literally with his elbow touching the glove side post) and rather than turn and try to stuff it, he opted to make an almost-impossible pass to the middle. On a different PP a Hawk (can’t remember who now) received a pass basically on top of the crease and tried to setup a one-timer by passing backwards rather than jam it home. I know the league has changed a bit with guys liking the “pretty” setup/goal, but a goal is a goal. I’d like to see them take advantage of those opportunities in close by doing the greasy, less “sexy” work to muscle it home.

Other than that I thought it was a nice win. MAF looked confident and helped the defense out by being pretty active with retrieving/stopping pucks for them to scoop up and organize some plays.

Excited to see what King cooks up for these guys with this little break coming up ahead of the circus trip. He certainly has them moving a bit in the right direction. I think it’s just going to be a slower process for now (which is fine).

Yea, it's simply the data that shows 200 games for a smaller player and 300-400 for a bigger one. But no trajectory is linear and it's just the average. ........ He searched for data that would help him draft fantasy players and the data showed him you can draft a kid in rd 16 who had 30 points the yr before and 175 games played and the data showed at the 200 mark kids took off.

Dmen take longer, think it's 400 games, on average. .......... I'll see if I can hunt down Dobber's explanation.
- Mr Ricochet

So you don't think it'd be wise to give up on Strome? What's he at 212 games? 6 3 right? 2nd best passer on this team probably?

But did you know our state doesn't tax retirement income, unfortunately yours does
- BetweenTheDots

Don't worry, they'll get to it soon enough.

This could be a meaningless stat, but Dach is tied for fourth in the league on takeaways, so for those that think he’s not giving an effort, there’s that. Does he need to improve his offensive skills? Sure, but how about a little patience with a 20 year old kid.
- Angotti

It’s not, he also wins the majority of 50/50 pucks, and he uses his long reach well along the boards. He’s not finishing, but there are quite a few right now that aren’t finishing. Moving him to wing for a while makes sense.

So you don't think it'd be wise to give up on Strome? What's he at 212 games? 6 3 right? 2nd best passer on this team probably?
- BetweenTheDots

Strome is a good passer, he has a creative mind offensively, he’s got a decent shot that he can get away quickly but why I just don’t see him excelling is because he’s not a good skater, he’s slow, he’s not agile and he isn’t strong on his skates. He’s a perimeter player who instead of getting his 6’ 3” body involved in puck battles, tries to reach in to try to steal the puck without having to get his nose dirty. He could surprise after 300 or so games but to overcome his poor skating he would need to get more involved in physical scrums and go to tough areas on the ice. So far nothing I’ve seen tells me he’ll ever be willing to do that. Yet as I say that he’s willing, at times, to play a net front presence.

So you don't think it'd be wise to give up on Strome? What's he at 212 games? 6 3 right? 2nd best passer on this team probably?
- BetweenTheDots

Guys that steadily get worse over a four year period are not what the model is about, chief.

Strome is a good passer, he has a creative mind offensively, he’s got a decent shot that he can get away quickly but why I just don’t see him excelling is because he’s not a good skater, he’s slow, he’s not agile and he isn’t strong on his skates. He’s a perimeter player who instead of getting his 6’ 3” body involved in puck battles, tries to reach in to try to steal the puck without having to get his nose dirty. He could surprise after 300 or so games but to overcome his poor skating he would need to get more involved in physical scrums and go to tough areas on the ice. So far nothing I’ve seen tells me he’ll ever be willing to do that. Yet as I say that he’s willing, at times, to play a net front presence.
- paulr

Dots has said similar things about Strome over the past few months, but little Dots gets all atwitter when talk of 400 games emerges.

So you don't think it'd be wise to give up on Strome? What's he at 212 games? 6 3 right? 2nd best passer on this team probably?
- BetweenTheDots

Dots, or anyone reading about the breakout threshold model, it's not a cut and dried proven 100% thing for every player. Reason would have it that a 6th rd pick won't advance as much as a 2nd rd pick or that every player will break out.

Only that most players when they do breakout it's usually at the 200 game or 400 game marker. Just something to watch for and thinking about it I bet NHL teams have their own models of when a player is most likely to take a jump.

Strome is a conundrum of sorts. Elite jr player, had one 60 pt pace NHL season, no doubt weak on the D side, has nice size, average skater at best, has played under 4 coaches now I believe, does a lot of coasting and by every measure his lifetime fancies are poor or outright suck. ....... But he is a centerman and they get a longer look than wingers, he's still just 24 and if he's gonna breakout it will be in a yr or two.

The eye test always confused a bit as he can look effective but man his fancies by any measure are not good. Simple answer from me I do not know. Gun to my head I move on from him.

BREAKING— Adam Boqvist Healthy Scratched. I never thought he would amount to much.

Strome is a good passer, he has a creative mind offensively, he’s got a decent shot that he can get away quickly but why I just don’t see him excelling is because he’s not a good skater, he’s slow, he’s not agile and he isn’t strong on his skates. He’s a perimeter player who instead of getting his 6’ 3” body involved in puck battles, tries to reach in to try to steal the puck without having to get his nose dirty. He could surprise after 300 or so games but to overcome his poor skating he would need to get more involved in physical scrums and go to tough areas on the ice. So far nothing I’ve seen tells me he’ll ever be willing to do that. Yet as I say that he’s willing, at times, to play a net front presence.
- paulr

Well put. The thing that goes against Strome the most is that his skill set/game, as you point out, does not translate to a bottom 6 role. For him it seems it's either top 6 or bust and waiting for him to develop in the top 6 you're gonna lose a lot of games.

Guys that steadily get worse over a four year period are not what the model is about, chief.
- mohel

Dude really is a riddle. Check out Strome's steady progression in pts per game and 82 game pace and his just as steady regression. Also, if the guy could win a draw he'd help his cause. https://frozenpool.dobber....com/players/dylan-strome

That's an understatement. It was insufferable. Leah Hextall was brutal--you kind of knew from the get go that it was going to be bad when she said, "Gee, I have never been to the United Center, isn't this going to be great!" How could they have that woman broadcasting the game?! It was like fingernails on a chalkboard. I actually turned the game off because of her. ESPN/HULU and even the NHL probably doesn't care, but they actually lost viewers because of the atrocious play-by-play.
- Al Secord

Yeah I hated those two homer guys a week back but these two rookies were tough to take.
I truly realize that the league wants women in hockey, but Leah Hextall should be getting minor pro play by play practice. It was almost as if at the beginning they really were waiting for the play be play person get there late.

And D Moore on color-yikes! Tell me his prep wa the few opinionated story lines (Toes should be with the midgets/ you could feel the Arizona defender Jacob Chychrun struggles they are SO apparent!)

I just felt like there was lots of repetition and Hextall seems to have no. middle voice, going from a low level play call to a shouting after a gaol is scored that she didn't right describe as she was muddling along.

BREAKING— Adam Boqvist Healthy Scratched. I never thought he would amount to much.
- Hockeygirl222

Elvis v Shesterkin at CLB tonight. Good game. ...... Boqvist will get yrs of looks before NHL teams give up on him. I do know NYI are glad StanBowPops&McD took Boqvist instead of Dobson.

Dude really is a riddle. Check out Strome's steady progression in pts per game and 82 game pace and his just as steady regression. Also, if the guy could win a draw he'd help his cause. https://frozenpool.dobber....com/players/dylan-strome
- Mr Ricochet

Yeah, he's going the wrong way the past few years. My assumption is that the model encapsulates a player adjusting to the league and adding pieces to his toolbox, then having it all click at a certain point. It is my view that Strome hasn't been able to add to his game, and has regressed in his areas of talent. It is too bad, because the Hawks, imo, need more talented forwards.

On the other hand, ADB is a year younger than Strome. He started out as an excellent sniper; and each year has improved his all-around game. I think most here believe that he is becoming a player well-positioned to burst into his prime.

Edit - btw, Rico, I have enjoyed reading your informative stuff here today.

Elvis v Shesterkin at CLB tonight. Good game. ...... Boqvist will get yrs of looks before NHL teams give up on him. I do know NYI are glad StanBowPops&McD took Boqvist instead of Dobson.
- Mr Ricochet

Should of drafted wahlstrom

Should of drafted wahlstrom
- Scott1977

Bouchard or Dobson.

Dude really is a riddle. Check out Strome's steady progression in pts per game and 82 game pace and his just as steady regression. Also, if the guy could win a draw he'd help his cause. https://frozenpool.dobber....com/players/dylan-strome
- Mr Ricochet

56% face off % this year. Small sample size. Probably will fall when you consider a larger sample size. But maybe he has worked on that part of his game. I think you need to throw him out there just about every night. Probably one of the top 9 forwards on the roster. Not sure if he should be center on top line or 3rd line. I do not like him on wing.

Bouchard or Dobson.
- paulr

Walhstrom as for d man Bouchard

Nice to get that third W in a row last night

One thing I noticed that seemed a little odd was that I though Gaudette was penciled in to play but then never did. Was he replaced by Johnson or someone else last minute?

Some things that stuck out to me:

- Blind passing: There were a number of instances a Hawk would whirl around and blindly pass in hopes another Hawk was there. It worked some of the time thankfully, but was often picked off. They also threw the puck up the middle quite a bit and AZ had the neutral zone pretty locked down for most of those passes.

- Stuff it home: On the Hawk Power Plays there were two separate instances where Toews had the puck down low (literally with his elbow touching the glove side post) and rather than turn and try to stuff it, he opted to make an almost-impossible pass to the middle. On a different PP a Hawk (can’t remember who now) received a pass basically on top of the crease and tried to setup a one-timer by passing backwards rather than jam it home. I know the league has changed a bit with guys liking the “pretty” setup/goal, but a goal is a goal. I’d like to see them take advantage of those opportunities in close by doing the greasy, less “sexy” work to muscle it home.

Other than that I thought it was a nice win. MAF looked confident and helped the defense out by being pretty active with retrieving/stopping pucks for them to scoop up and organize some plays.

Excited to see what King cooks up for these guys with this little break coming up ahead of the circus trip. He certainly has them moving a bit in the right direction. I think it’s just going to be a slower process for now (which is fine).
- Matt Ross

Matt, thanks for popping over from the Panthers blog!

Those two issues you pointed out are ones I've observed over the past few seasons, too.

Whether it's errant passing to a teammate's feet or to one who's already covered or blind passing to nobody in particular, it's been a problem that kills any chances of mounting consistent offensive rushes.

The inability or lack of desire to just take the puck to the net when already behind it is frustrating to watch. Instead, the Hawks elect to pass the puck back out to the perimeter where momentum can get killed for any SOG. Last I checked, higher percentage shots are in the slot/crease.

Scoring on a stuff attempt isn't frequent by any team but what matters more is creating havoc to get those 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc chances for garbage goals. It gets the other team to collapse low and create holes in their defense which can be ripe for exploiting if the puck squirts out for a wide open shot.

Matt, thanks for popping over from the Panthers blog!

Those two issues you pointed out are ones I've observed over the past few seasons, too.

Whether it's errant passing to a teammate's feet or to one who's already covered or blind passing to nobody in particular, it's been a problem that kills any chances of mounting consistent offensive rushes.

The inability or lack of desire to just take the puck to the net when already behind it is frustrating to watch. Instead, the Hawks elect to pass the puck back out to the perimeter where momentum can get killed for any SOG. Last I checked, higher percentage shots are in the slot/crease.

Scoring on a stuff attempt isn't frequent by any team but what matters more is creating havoc to get those 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc chances for garbage goals. It gets the other team to collapse low and create holes in their defense which can be ripe for exploiting if the puck squirts out for a wide open shot.
- Theo Fox

Another issue. It is hard to believe how many players have trouble elevating the puck on their forehand, not to mention on their back hand. This is magnified when they are skating fast on breakaways or two on ones. But it also happens when they pick up a rebound and fire it into the goalies pads. You look at Kaner, ADB, Kubalik and see their attempts. They can get it over the pads. Dach and others have troubles. Maybe the long stick Dach uses makes it more difficult. But their shooting percentage would go up if they used the top half of the net.