While I get your point, your examples are not really relevant. Puljujarvi and Nylander were both first round picks and both played more games in the minors than 6th round pick Hagel. It's how you play and what you make of your opportunities.
- TheTrob

Hagel did spend an entire season in Rockford after 3 seasons in the WHL after his draft.
Puljujarvi got slotted in right away in the top six, they burned a year off his ELC with 28 games, THEN sent him down to Bakersfield. Then they yo-yo-d him back and forth until he refused and requested a trade. He went and played in Europe and finally came back. Absolutely botched development.

Worst case is after a handful of games he looks out of place and needs to go back. Not a lot to lose at this point and they need all the help they can get + something positive for the fan base.
- fattybeef

Why do you want him to get to the NHL so quickly? Assuming he’s ready to contribute, why have him play on a bad team with all the off and on ice issues, not to mention him burning a year off his ELC.

Nonsense, but......times are changing. Current trend is that 1st rounders are thrown into the fire pretty quickly, especially those at the top of the round. Works for some, not for others. Huges, Kakko, Lafreniere all struggled out of the gate, they are slowly starting to round into better players, others have benefitted from time in the AHL or staying in Jrs/College.

(Sharp, Marchand, Josi were all 2nd or 3rd round picks, way, way less of them making the jump directly to the NHL)
- TheTrob

He has zero points in nine games, not ready for prime time in NHL.

You spew nonsense, plain and simple.

There are probably 600 players currently in the NHL who spent some time 'marinating' in the AHL - learning the pro game, learning how to be a pro, etc.

And if you don't believe me, just look up how many games a few well known names spent in the 'slow' league - Patrick Sharp, Brad Marchand, Roman Josi, Ryan Kesler, Nick Leddy. There are many more.
- RickJ

Patrick Sharp was a 4 year college player that bloomed late.

Marchand was behind Bergeron, Kreji and Marc Savard so its not like he had a roster spot.

Similar for Kesler, a first place team that had no place for him at the time.

Nick Leddy came straight from high school pretty much and only played int he AHL because of the lockout.

Roman Josi spent a year but again similar to Kesler and Marchand there was actual talent ahead of him on the NHL roster that was a playoff team at the time.

So first off those aren't comparable situations. Second, none of those players were PPG players in the AHL. And finally, outside of a late bloomer (like Patrick Sharp) or as a place holder (which with the diluted talent rarely happens) there is no reason for a player with his talent to linger in the AHL.

I can't think of a player with his skating and skill tool-set that spent time down there and became anything in the last 5 years. If a player needs to work on skating (like an Oliver Walstrom) or is just super raw (like a Duncan Keith) or has nowhere else to go (like a Danault or Marchand or Kesler) then they have to go there but otherwise it is a waste of time.

Hagel did spend an entire season in Rockford after 3 seasons in the WHL after his draft.
Puljujarvi got slotted in right away in the top six, they burned a year off his ELC with 28 games, THEN sent him down to Bakersfield. Then they yo-yo-d him back and forth until he refused and requested a trade. He went and played in Europe and finally came back. Absolutely botched development.
- ObeseOprah

I'd argue he got more out of playing in Europe than the AHL.

Totally agree. Look at Tampa Bay’s cup rosters, Yzerman let nearly every single player round out their game in Syracuse.
Our own Duncan Keith played in Milwaukee and another minor league town before coming up, and he’s an all time great. Every draft there are MAYBE 3-4 guys who stick in their first year. We got Reichel with I believe the 17th pick, so he’s likely not one of the 3-4 special guys who can stick right away. Obviously we’re a year removed from his draft, but that still only ups the number of guys playing from that draft year a bit. I’d rather him play 16 minutes a night in Rockford than 9 minutes a night here.
- ObeseOprah

Perception is not reality. Stamkos, Hedman, Point, Kucherov, Segachev, Vasilevski, all played zero or just a handful of games in the AHL. Palat and Gourde the players with extended time in the AHL.

He has zero points in nine games, not ready for prime time in NHL.
- Angotti

Or just not an NHL player and a bust. Those happen too.

Perception is not reality. Stamkos, Hedman, Point, Kucherov, Segachev, Vasilevski, all played zero or just a handful of games in the AHL. Palat and Gourde the players with extended time in the AHL.
- TheTrob

Again Palat and Gourde were in the AHL longer because the roster was already full of NHL talent.

Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Blackhawks place MacKenzie Entwistle on LTIR and will miss 4-6 weeks with a left ankle injury.


Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Borgstrom out tonight with an illness (non-COVID).

Hagel also not on the ice for morning skate.

De Haan is on the ice after missing practice yesterday.

Who cares where in the draft they were selected - they are either ready to contribute or need further exposure to a man's league.

I don't see Lafreniere lighting the league on fire or Hughes or Dach or Kakko.

Want to win in the NHL - most 18 years olds arent ready unless the name is Lindros, McDavid, Lemieux. NHL coaches spend too much time tutoring kids that aren't ready, some time in 'pro' school never hurts.
- RickJ

I agree, my point was more that kids are rushed to the NHL, especially 1st rounders. It would be much better for them to learn the game in Jrs, College, AHL. Most of these kids have excelled since they were young and many never learned how to play, they just dominated with physical ability. Every year we hear about a "generational talent", yeah, Crosby and McDavid were generational talents, Hughes, Lafreniere, etc. are just not, and not even close to their hype.

Do you play him top 6, 15 minutes a night? If you bring him up to play 10 minutes a night to play on the 4th line, better off leaving him in Rockford. Are you giving up on Borgstrom already? He needs minutes to show what he can do. Do you keep Kurashev as 4C, or do you send him down to the A? Do you play Strome, or give him away?
- LAHawk

Not giving up on anyone, and injuries do happen over the course of the season. They send Nylander down and he's not playing anywhere near as good as Reichel. For me it's always based on the players performance and not just scoring, but 200 feet of play, since i believe in defense first. If and only if they are watching him and saying he's ready, we can keep him here but really how much better is that going to make him.

Speaking of defense love love love that play by Kurashev to keep the score 1-1.

Good debate on the development topic, with good points on both sides (even by Paulie).

It is an endless debate because we can't know how a particular player would have done had a different developmental path been taken. We'll never be able to know how Duncan Keith would have developed had he spent less time in the AHL. We'll also never know if player X, who was drafted high and flopped after being tossed to the wolves early, would have been good had he spent three years marinating.

The baseball analogy is interesting. Typically, a hitter moves up a level to face pitching that helps the hitter improve. Usually, it is fairly unknown how that hitter will do once he faces pitchers with major league breaking pitches and location. Most aren't able to make that adjustment. Keeping the hitter at a certain level too long delays the hitter because he's not facing good enough opposition to get better. For the development of hockey players, time on the farm is good unless the skill the player needs to work on can't be done in the minors. For example, if Dach needs to work on getting his shot off in tight quarters against players with elite closing speed, does he learn that in the A? Does Reichel get better playing with Kane in Chicago? Or with Nylander in Rockford?

At the end of the day, I think this issue is very individual in nature. Part of the tool box that is often overlooked, imo, is the player's emotional strength of the kid in question. If the kid can handle failing - if failing spurs them to work harder rather than lose confidence - I would tend toward shorter time marinating.

Good stuff today.

Why do you want him to get to the NHL so quickly? Assuming he’s ready to contribute, why have him play on a bad team with all the off and on ice issues, not to mention him burning a year off his ELC.
- paulr

He is an ELC slide candidate, and that's a legit consideration, imo.

Perception is not reality. Stamkos, Hedman, Point, Kucherov, Segachev, Vasilevski, all played zero or just a handful of games in the AHL. Palat and Gourde the players with extended time in the AHL.
- TheTrob

Stamkos and Hedman were top three picks, which as we’ve said have a tendency to make the league especially if the time is awful and this is their ‘new hope’.
Kucherov spent time in the KHL, QMJHL, and AHL before getting called up years after his draft. He had 24 points in 17 games in the AHL and that’s why they called him up.
Vasi spent two years in the AHL with minimal call ups, and that was back when Tampa had ZERO goaltending (rolston and some other horrid name I can’t recall). They liked Gudlevskis a lot after his 2014 Olympic heroics against team Canada.
Palat spent two years in the AHL. Killorn did all four years of college (as Pierre never shuts up about HARVARD) then a full year in the AHL.
Cirelli did two extra years of juniors and then a full year in the AHL.
Gourde played five years in the AHL/ECHL before playing a single NHL game, then went back for another year.
Point Stamkos and Hedman are freaks, they made it. Reichel is good but I don’t think he’s at Stamkos level. I’d rather be patient than risk irritating him or breaking his confidence when he gets sent back down.

Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Marc-Andre Fleury is in the Blackhawks starter’s crease.

He’ll get another chance tonight for revenge against the Penguins.

I remember reading here, just yesterday, that the Euro leagues were trash and the AHL was where it's at. Hard to keep up.....

Not directed at you, fatty.
- mohel

Keep showing ignorance under the guise of sarcasm

Stamkos and Hedman were top three picks, which as we’ve said have a tendency to make the league especially if the time is awful and this is their ‘new hope’.
Kucherov spent time in the KHL, QMJHL, and AHL before getting called up years after his draft. He had 24 points in 17 games in the AHL and that’s why they called him up.
Vasi spent two years in the AHL with minimal call ups, and that was back when Tampa had ZERO goaltending (rolston and some other horrid name I can’t recall). They liked Gudlevskis a lot after his 2014 Olympic heroics against team Canada.
Palat spent two years in the AHL. Killorn did all four years of college (as Pierre never shuts up about HARVARD) then a full year in the AHL.
Cirelli did two extra years of juniors and then a full year in the AHL.
Gourde played five years in the AHL/ECHL before playing a single NHL game, then went back for another year.
Point Stamkos and Hedman are freaks, they made it. Reichel is good but I don’t think he’s at Stamkos level. I’d rather be patient than risk irritating him or breaking his confidence when he gets sent back down.
- ObeseOprah

Rolston? They had Ben Bishop and Nabokov. Before that it was Lindback and Garon.

Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Blackhawks place MacKenzie Entwistle on LTIR and will miss 4-6 weeks with a left ankle injury.


Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Borgstrom out tonight with an illness (non-COVID).

Hagel also not on the ice for morning skate.

De Haan is on the ice after missing practice yesterday.
- LAHawk

Any news on Hagel’s injury? Long term or day to day?

Rolston? They had Ben Bishop and Nabokov. Before that it was Lindback and Garon.
- TheTrob

They also had the female goalie (Monon Rheaume)

Stamkos and Hedman were top three picks, which as we’ve said have a tendency to make the league especially if the time is awful and this is their ‘new hope’.
Kucherov spent time in the KHL, QMJHL, and AHL before getting called up years after his draft. He had 24 points in 17 games in the AHL and that’s why they called him up.
Vasi spent two years in the AHL with minimal call ups, and that was back when Tampa had ZERO goaltending (rolston and some other horrid name I can’t recall). They liked Gudlevskis a lot after his 2014 Olympic heroics against team Canada.
Palat spent two years in the AHL. Killorn did all four years of college (as Pierre never shuts up about HARVARD) then a full year in the AHL.
Cirelli did two extra years of juniors and then a full year in the AHL.
Gourde played five years in the AHL/ECHL before playing a single NHL game, then went back for another year.
Point Stamkos and Hedman are freaks, they made it. Reichel is good but I don’t think he’s at Stamkos level. I’d rather be patient than risk irritating him or breaking his confidence when he gets sent back down.
- ObeseOprah

Kucherov, 20 when brought to the NHL for good, Cirelli, 20 when brought to the NHL for good. Reichel, who knows. He is 20 after playing 2 years with men. If he scores 24 points in his first 17 games like Kucherov does that mean he's ready?

Every player is different. What works for some doesn't for others. Who thought DeBrincat at #39 in the draft would never play a minute in the AHL (by the way he was....20 when he made the NHL). There is no one formula or one right or wrong answer. IF the Hawks believe that they have a playoff chance this season and Reichel is better than any current options, then by all means bring him up. IF they feel he will develop more in the NHL, then bring him up. IF they want to evaluate what they currently have up, and/or give a chance to the Nylanders, etc. who have been around a bit, then let him play in the AHL. IF they feel that a year in the AHL will be better for him long term, let him stay down there. None of us really know what they are thinking, or how Davidsons philosophy differs from Stans. Well all just have to wait and see.

They also had the female goalie (Monon Rheaume)
- powerenforcer

Publicity stunt, also, many years before Vasilevskiy, Bishop, etc.

Any news on Hagel’s injury? Long term or day to day?
- Angotti

Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Hagel is out tonight and there will be more update tomorrow on the extent of his injury, Derek King says.

Any news on Hagel’s injury? Long term or day to day?
- Angotti

Hagel is out tonight and there will be more update tomorrow on the extent of his injury, Derek King says.

Rolston? They had Ben Bishop and Nabokov. Before that it was Lindback and Garon.
- TheTrob

Ah I think you’re right. I was thinking earlier than that before they traded Conacher for Bishop, they had Garon and Lindback who were simply awful.

They were still clinging to Lecavelier as a number one center, but he deteriorated quickly and eventually got bought out. Crazy how far they came with all those young players. Wish the Hawks would’ve stuck to the rebuild plan, or gotten Jones for cheaper. I like Jones a lot but our incoming class will be weaker without a first.

Re Strome:

Dylan Strome: “My little brother got sent down to the ECHL, my older brother got COVID and I wasn't playing. Tough couple weeks for the family.”

“Now Ryan’s back playing, scored last night, Matt got called back up to the AHL and here I am here. Things are looking up.”

Strome on his talks with Derek King: “He likes me as a player. He likes the way I try to control the puck. He emphasizes being above it and getting back and winning those puck battles… It feels good. A little breath of fresh air.”

I've been on the "dump Strome" bandwagon for a while. If this change gets him going, I'll happily change my tune. I just think he will continue to be inconsistent which is themes maddening thing. Hopefully he proves the doubters wrong.