Clarke did not control the draft when G was draft, in fact if you remember Clarke didn't even know how to pronounce his last name when we drafted G! Clearly Homer was in charge of the draft by that point. I am not stating ALL the best players on the Flyers currently were drafted by Homer, but I agreeing that two of them were drafted by Homer. I think you are all reading way too much in my response.
- jd250

Oh geez….

If Bobby Clarke was GM at the time of Giroux’s selection. It was Clarke’s selection. Each NHL has an entire management staff, coaching staff and scouting staff. They all work together.

Bro, you gotta stop now.

In order to go round and round with someone on this, they first have to understand defensive zone coverage. Your comment that Ristolainen was IN HIS defensive zone coverage area shows that not only don't you understand defensive coverage but you also don't understand basic hockey fundamentals.
Your last few sentences are complete speculation on your part that you couldn't possibly corroborate.
- MJL

I understand d-zone coverage a lot better than you do. Answer me this, what Penguin player was Risto covering on that play? What Penguin player was Sanheim covering? Your answer will clearly illustrate to all how much you know and how much you don't.

you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I guess we were actually having a fruitful and productive conversation for far too long, so you needed to revert back to being argumentative. Sad.
- jd250

No, that would be you!


A poster made this comment.

"Funny how the best players on the team are ones Holmgren drafted.... "

My reply by asking you the two questions that I did was proving that comment to be wrong.

What don't you get? This is not difficult.

Oh geez….

If Bobby Clarke was GM at the time of Giroux’s selection. It was Clarke’s selection. Each NHL has an entire management staff, coaching staff and scouting staff. They all work together.

Bro, you gotta stop now.
- SuperSchennBros

Stop what? You guys are the one arguing with me, not the other way around! I was ready to move on from this useless thread a while ago!

I understand d-zone coverage a lot better than you do. Answer me this, what Penguin player was Risto covering on that play? What Penguin player was Sanheim covering? Your answer will clearly illustrate to all how much you know and how much you don't.
- jd250

Neither player was covering a player. That's the issue. Sanheim was drifting aimlessly in the high slot. Ristolainen was puck watching and not aware of who was behind him.

Instead of trying to crowd source. Step up and prove how much I don't know.

No, that would be you!


A poster made this comment.

"Funny how the best players on the team are ones Holmgren drafted.... "

My reply by asking you the two questions that I did was proving that comment to be wrong.

What don't you get? This is not difficult.
- MJL

And once again it comes back to Saint Ronnie with you! Sorry to burst your bubble, but Provey and Hart are not yet at the level of G and Coots, you're just going to have to live in that reality whether you like it or not.

And once again it comes back to Saint Ronnie with you! Sorry to burst your bubble, but Provey and Hart are not yet at the level of G and Coots, you're just going to have to live in that reality whether you like it or not.
- jd250

More hysterics. The context was not about if those players are at the level of Giroux and Couturier. The fact remains that Hart and Provorov are among the best players on the team and were not drafted by Holmgren. I've never seen anything like it. For a guy who accuses others of just trying to argue.

you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I guess we were actually having a fruitful and productive conversation for far too long, so you needed to revert back to being argumentative. Sad.
- jd250

Pretty sure he doesnt do that

Neither player was covering a player. That's the issue. Sanheim was drifting aimlessly in the high slot. Ristolainen was puck watching and not aware of who was behind him.

Instead of trying to crowd source. Step up and prove how much I don't know.
- MJL

Well, at least you admitted Sanheim was "drifting aimlessly" so I give you credit for that correct answer. However, you are incorrect about Risto and here is why. When the puck came into the Flyers zone, Penguins player number 53, Teddy Blueger, skated into the slot area and Risto was covering him. Once the puck was whipped around the boards, Blueger skated behind the Flyers net, thus Risto correctly disengaged coverage and moved to his defensive zone coverage area, the lower right slot. Sanheim at the same time left his left slot coverage area and for some reason followed the puck up the right boards. Bleuger then emerged from behind the Flyers' net and skated into Risto's area so Risto re-engaged his coverage, however the puck was then shot on net to the left slot area where McGinn was left uncovered for the easy tip in. That play was 100% on Sanheim's bad decision to drift to the top of the right circle instead of stay in his coverage area.

It's as plain as day, and I invite everyone to watch the highlight and verify what I am stating!!

Well, at least you admitted Sanheim was "drifting aimlessly" so I give you credit for that correct answer. However, you are incorrect about Risto and here is why. When the puck came into the Flyers zone, Penguins player number 53, Teddy Blueger, skated into the slot area and Risto was covering him. Once the puck was whipped around the boards, Blueger skated behind the Flyers net, thus Risto correctly disengaged coverage and moved to his defensive zone coverage area, the lower right slot. Sanheim at the same time left his left slot coverage area and for some reason followed the puck up the right boards. Bleuger then emerged from behind the Flyers' net and skated into Risto's area so Risto re-engaged his coverage, however the puck was then shot on net to the left slot area where McGinn was left uncovered for the easy tip in. That play was 100% on Sanheim's bad decision to drift to the top of the right circle instead of stay in his coverage area.

It's as plain as day, and I invite everyone to watch the highlight and verify what I stating!!
- jd250

We had this conversation about this play previously. I identified 3 culprits on the play. Including Sanheim who I also identified as a culprit in earlier conversations on this play. So your comment that at least I admitted Sanheim is silly.
Ristolainen didn't engage coverage on anyone. There is no doubt that he was put into a tight spot but he didn't mark Bleuger or McCann. He just casually skated. I'll repeat what I said in the original conversation. There were three players to blame. None of the 3 players covered their position properly, not put themselves in the shooting lane to knock down a weak point shot that was a pass. In the order of blame. Konecny for taking a bad angle on his point coverage and not getting in the shooting lane. Sanheim for drifting aimlessly, not covering anyone and not getting in the shooting lane. It would have been an easy knock down of the pass for him if he had. Ristolainen also failed to cover anyone. Didn't get himself in the shooting lane where he also could've easily knocked down the pass and complete lost awareness on the play and the back door. All three players contributed to the clear passing and shot lane to McCann. Neither defenseman effectively covered anyone.

End of story. Defense is a team game. A defenseman in the NHL, this is not pee wee hockey, is not stapled to his defensive zone area. Both defenseman have responsibilities on both sides of the ice. Again, it goes back to understanding defensive zone play and AV's overload D zone system where all 5 defenders are frequently on the same side of the ice.

Yes understood. I still want to know who is holding that Voodoo doll and sticking all the pins into it, because the Flyers have had the worst luck with injuries to their prospects.
- jd250

I believe it is an Old UnderWorld Russian curse from when Clarke broke that CCCP dudes foot with a lumberjack chop...

Well, at least you admitted Sanheim was "drifting aimlessly" so I give you credit for that correct answer. However, you are incorrect about Risto and here is why. When the puck came into the Flyers zone, Penguins player number 53, Teddy Blueger, skated into the slot area and Risto was covering him. Once the puck was whipped around the boards, Blueger skated behind the Flyers net, thus Risto correctly disengaged coverage and moved to his defensive zone coverage area, the lower right slot. Sanheim at the same time left his left slot coverage area and for some reason followed the puck up the right boards. Bleuger then emerged from behind the Flyers' net and skated into Risto's area so Risto re-engaged his coverage, however the puck was then shot on net to the left slot area where McGinn was left uncovered for the easy tip in. That play was 100% on Sanheim's bad decision to drift to the top of the right circle instead of stay in his coverage area.

It's as plain as day, and I invite everyone to watch the highlight and verify what I am stating!!
- jd250

He was not drifting aimlessly, he was lazily listing to the left...

We had this conversation about this play previously. I identified 3 culprits on the play. Including Sanheim who I also identified as a culprit in earlier conversations on this play. So your comment that at least I admitted Sanheim is silly.
Ristolainen didn't engage coverage on anyone. There is no doubt that he was put into a tight spot but he didn't mark Bleuger or McCann. He just casually skated. I'll repeat what I said in the original conversation. There were three players to blame. None of the 3 players covered their position properly, not put themselves in the shooting lane to knock down a weak point shot that was a pass. In the order of blame. Konecny for taking a bad angle on his point coverage and not getting in the shooting lane. Sanheim for drifting aimlessly, not covering anyone and not getting in the shooting lane. It would have been an easy knock down of the pass for him if he had. Ristolainen also failed to cover anyone. Didn't get himself in the shooting lane where he also could've easily knocked down the pass and complete lost awareness on the play and the back door. All three players contributed to the clear passing and shot lane to McCann. Neither defenseman effectively covered anyone.

End of story. Defense is a team game. A defenseman in the NHL, this is not pee wee hockey, is not stapled to his defensive zone area. Both defenseman have responsibilities on both sides of the ice. Again, it goes back to understanding defensive zone play and AV's overload D zone system where all 5 defenders are frequently on the same side of the ice.
- MJL

No its not the end of the story!! I agree with you that defense is a 5 man unit, not a 1 or 2 player responsibility, but I disagree with you in this regard. In ANY team sport, in order for a system to work, everyone has to know their role and play their position, in other words, as Belichick states time and time again, just "Do your job!". This means know your responsibility on a given play and have confidence in your teammates to know their role and responsibility and to execute it. When players try to compensate for other players because of lack of confidence, the entire system breaks down. I'll pause here and hope we can agree at least on this.

We saw this play out last season on the Flyers, where the goalies were cheating trying to cover the cross ice pass because they had no confidence in the defense in front of them, defenseman chasing players even up to their own blue line because they had no confidence in the forwards, and so on. The defensive system completely broke down last year and the results were disastrous. Fletcher and the coaches put an emphasis on fixing this issue this off-season by getting better players and re-installing a more disciplined defensive system.

Now put yourself in Risto's skates and ask yourself, what was his expectation of Sanheim on that play? Did he expect Sanheim to drift aimlessly to the top of the right circle? And when did he realize Sanheim did this? How much time did Risto have to adjust his coverage and compensate? Seconds? Maybe less?

Yes, in the end TK took a bad angle, and Risto engaged the wrong player, but these results could have all been mitigated if Sanheim simply did his job, and he failed miserably on that play! Its thus on Sanheim!

QED

No its not the end of the story!! I agree with you that defense is a 5 man unit, not a 1 or 2 player responsibility, but I disagree with you in this regard. In ANY team sport, in order for a system to work, everyone has to know their role and play their position, in other words, as Belichick states time and time again, just "Do your job!". This means know your responsibility on a given play and have confidence in your teammates to know their role and responsibility and to execute it. When players try to compensate for other players because of lack of confidence, the entire system breaks down. I'll pause here and hope we can agree at least on this.

We saw this play out last season on the Flyers, where the goalies were cheating trying to cover the cross ice pass because they had no confidence in the defense in front of them, defenseman chasing players even up to their own blue line because they had no confidence in the forwards, and so on. The defensive system completely broke down last year and the results were disastrous. Fletcher and the coaches put an emphasis on fixing this issue this off-season by getting better players and re-installing a more disciplined defensive system.

Now put yourself in Risto's skates and ask yourself, what was his expectation of Sanheim on that play? Did he expect Sanheim to drift aimlessly to the top of the right circle? And when did he realize Sanheim did this? How much time did Risto have to adjust his coverage and compensate? Seconds? Maybe less?

Yes, in the end TK took a bad angle, and Risto engaged the wrong player, but these results could have all been mitigated if Sanheim simply did his job, and he failed miserably on that play! Its thus on Sanheim!

QED
- jd250

You're going off on a tangent here that really isn't relevant. You're trying to live in the fantasy world of everything being perfect and where there are no breakdowns. There are. That's life as an NHL defenseman. Other players make mistakes and you're responsible for covering for it. As an example, in a recent game, you criticized Nick Seeler for not playing a 2 on 1 well. Why? Did Nick Seeler make the mistake leading to the 2 on 1? So if you're going to be consistent, why did you criticize him? Criticize the player who made the mistake that cause the odd man rush. You didn't do that though, did you? There are breakdowns and that's why by design, NHL systems have layers of defense. It's the entire basis for V's overload system. To outnumber the opposition on the puck.

If a defenseman's partner is covering a rushing winger down the boards, is it the expectation of his partner that he will cover the rush and ward the attacking player off? So is that how he should play it? With an expectation? Is it his responsibility to aid his partner if he get beat on the rush to the net and come over and cut the player off? Of course it is. That's playing the position. Expectations. LOL
The play could've been mitigated by any of the 3 players mentioned. All 3 players made mistakes on the play. You trying to absolve Ristolainen is just bias and lack of attention to detail on the play.

I believe it is an Old UnderWorld Russian curse from when Clarke broke that CCCP dudes foot with a lumberjack chop...
- konalover711

Pretty sure he prevented a breakaway though

You're going off on a tangent here that really isn't relevant. You're trying to live in the fantasy world of everything being perfect and where there are no breakdowns. There are. That's life as an NHL defenseman. Other players make mistakes and you're responsible for covering for it. As an example, in a recent game, you criticized Nick Seeler for not playing a 2 on 1 well. Why? Did Nick Seeler make the mistake leading to the 2 on 1? So if you're going to be consistent, why did you criticize him? Criticize the player who made the mistake that cause the odd man rush. You didn't do that though, did you? There are breakdowns and that's why by design, NHL systems have layers of defense. It's the entire basis for V's overload system. To outnumber the opposition on the puck.

If a defenseman's partner is covering a rushing winger down the boards, is it the expectation of his partner that he will cover the rush and ward the attacking player off? So is that how he should play it? With an expectation? Is it his responsibility to aid his partner if he get beat on the rush to the net and come over and cut the player off? Of course it is. That's playing the position. Expectations. LOL
The play could've been mitigated by any of the 3 players mentioned. All 3 players made mistakes on the play. You trying to absolve Ristolainen is just bias and lack of attention to detail on the play.
- MJL

I provided detailed analysis and evidence as to why I feel the way I do, and none of it is fantasy and none of it assumes perfection, it all fact based with video evidence! I'm done now with this topic.

I provided detailed analysis and evidence as to why I feel the way I do, and none of it is fantasy and none of it assumes perfection, it all fact based with video evidence! I'm done now with this topic.
- jd250

You did but it was bad detail and you didn't get it right. Ristolainen shares blame on the play. That simple.

not to change the topic of the day but Ellis practicing in the top 6 today. At this point if he is ready, great but after missing the last 7, take the time and make sure it is good for the rest of the season.


Side note- Good for Provy, he has really stepped up this year, without Ellis. Yeah, Braun has played well but Provy is really doing well.

You did but it was bad detail and you didn't get it right. Ristolainen shares blame on the play. That simple.
- MJL

I was not in the video room the next day, but I guarantee you Sanheim took the brunt of coaching on that play. Regarding Seeler, I never stated it was Seeler's fault there was a 2 on 1, I simply stated Seeler did not play the 2 on 1 properly, which he didn't!

I was not in the video room the next day, but I guarantee you Sanheim took the brunt of coaching on that play. Regarding Seeler, I never stated it was Seeler's fault there was a 2 on 1, I simply stated Seeler did not play the 2 on 1 properly, which he didn't!
- jd250

Again, you're trying to use pure speculation and trying to guarantee something that you possibly couldn't guarantee. You don't see me making statements like that.

Seeler was the only player you criticized. Enough said.

not to change the topic of the day but Ellis practicing in the top 6 today. At this point if he is ready, great but after missing the last 7, take the time and make sure it is good for the rest of the season.


Side note- Good for Provy, he has really stepped up this year, without Ellis. Yeah, Braun has played well but Provy is really doing well.
- wcorvette

If he's practicing and can make it through the entire practice, he may be close. I agree with you. Be cautious.

The context is who are the best players on the team. As I stated, are all of the bet players on the team drafted by Holmgren? Your comment on what the context of the conversation was, is incorrect.
- MJL

The 2 best players on the team were not drafted by Saint Ronnie. Is that better Cliff?

Again, you're trying to use pure speculation and trying to guarantee something that you possibly couldn't guarantee. You don't see me making statements like that.

Seeler was the only player you criticized. Enough said.
- MJL

- jd250

Show me where I used speculation like that is this conversation.

not to change the topic of the day but Ellis practicing in the top 6 today. At this point if he is ready, great but after missing the last 7, take the time and make sure it is good for the rest of the season.


Side note- Good for Provy, he has really stepped up this year, without Ellis. Yeah, Braun has played well but Provy is really doing well.
- wcorvette

A more disciplined system and a better defensive partner goes a long way!