How many years coaching in the minors/honing thier skills as coaches?

Just kinda bypass that whole part!! 🤣🤣🤣
- PatShart

True but your emphasis was on junk team, was it not?

I’d agree JC didn’t pay his dues coaching wise.

[quote=mohel]I hope he lights it up and becomes the permanent head coach. Just seems his experience is similar to JC. Couple years (not many games because of The Raging Vid) of so-so results at best, with less-than-stellar defensive performance.
- RickJ[/quote]
Has there ever been any emphasis by the Hawks in having a really good team in Rockford? If there was, show me examples.

Has there ever been any emphasis on really committing resources to develop players at the AHL level for the big team? The answer is no and it shows with the scarcity of players who have come up and stayed and contributed for any length of time. Stanbo couldn't wait to put Bovqist in an NHL jersey long before he was ready. You can name others too. AT least for now they have some defenceman down there who probably will stay down there to 'mature'.

Unlike JC, King played under numerous big name coaches and with some superstars. He knows something about the NHL gig. I expect they will bring in a coach to work the D and help King. He won't turn the ship around by himself but they will play better.

I prefer King’s resume for sure but the talent on both the AHL and NHL rosters are thin. King doesn’t have a whole lot to work with and bad rosters usually make bad coaches, or at least the average fan views coaches that way.

And 800+ games King played...he had a few decent team mates and coaches to learn from (if he absorbed it...kinda looked like his path to coaching did that)

He wasnt some role player either- nor some gifted player. Hard worker

May not translate 1 bit to coaching success.

But he earned his path behind the bench

JC has no resume to coach in the NHL
- PatShart

I will name some for you - Al Arbour, Pat Quinn, Q, Rick Wilson, Pronger, Lafontaine, Turgeon, Bryan Trottier, Ray Ferraro.

250+ goals in a career is better than most who pull on a jersey in the NHL.

Sure it was. According to King, no changes yet to the system, as there wasn't time. Maybe the players were excited for the new coach and actually performed their assignments correctly....

Edit - not sure how it all got bolded, I didn't mean to yell!
- mohel

Partially agree. A lot more was done correct and he didn't implement anything new but the guys just went out and played. Rather than hitting x's and o's they reverted to normal boring simple hockey which was refreshing.

There was no over-commitment in the zone, no 5 players on the same side of the ice, they had shape, not a whole lot of terrible pinches, breakouts were simple and quick, the middle of the ice was protected. It did not suck.

Gus got less than 5 minutes at 5v5 and there was some attempt to take advantage of the last change with home ice so at least from a bench perspective there was a perceptible change there. Skating the best players together also a welcome change.

Granted its only one game but the next 3 should be a decent measuring stick on how competent they are against teams they should be competitive with and teams they should probably beat.

Have you examined King's coaching career to determine whether his level of experience is satisfactory? A look at Wikipedia indicates that his 1st head coaching position was as coach of the Hogs. Is his record there good enough to warrant the promotion?
- mohel

He was at least a good NHL player which should garner some respect and he has paid his dues coaching wise.

Seriously. 76-80-7 with him as head coach in RFD, and not a single year (even when they had more wins than losses) when they had a a positive GF/GA.

It's great that he's not Colliton, but let's see what he actually brings to the table. He's a likable guy, has said a lot of the right things and the first on-ice results were favorable, but we should not be looking at "winnable games" just yet.
- Chunk

This alone is a huge breath of fresh air

Let's not forget Crawford ran the defense. He determined who played with whom and for how many minutes. Who knows if it was JC or Brookbank that thought giving Gus regular minutes was a good idea. He also put Stillman with Jones, instead of deHaan, who got the least TOI besides Gus
- LAHawk

Pretty sure that was Brookbank and Crawford flipped over to the defenders for the last game while King was on the forwards (probably because he was one).

King played about 800+ games in the league

Went to the AHL at the end of his career to become a player/coach - guys (see Franson) do that as they still kinda want to play, but learn coaching aspects

He took a few years off then (prob to be with family..guessing) - then jumped into the AHL assistant coaching ranks

JC retired in Europe, coached with a Euro junk team, and was jettisoned to the NHL in 3-4 years

Very similar roads
- PatShart

How many years or games of professional head coaching experience did each have? What were their records? King didn't land a head coaching gig at ANY level until he was in his 50's. Why?

Look, to be clear, King's inexperience and mediocre minor league record doesn't scare me off. But it should bother you, given your previous statements about coaching.

I didn't think it was the system either, and I backed keeping JC, until it was apparent to me he lost the room, they weren't listening to him anymore. A change had to be made, coaching (especially in today's world) is more than X's and O's. I thought Strome looked like the Strome we saw when he first came to the Hawks. Maybe all it took was King saying, don't worry, if you make a mistake you are going out there the next shift, instead of benching, playing him out of position, etc. I know it is one game, but he looked like a different player.
- LAHawk

System plays a part, but what was more detrimental to the team was the way in which JC utilized players. At no point should Carpenter have been taking a regular shift with Toews. At no point should Gus have been getting regular minutes, etc. etc. King takes over Carpenter plays well on a 4th line with Khaira and Kurashev, Strome has a regular shift and Gus plays 6 mins. Maybe how it should be. The fact that Gus got 4:30 of 5-on-5 ice time tells me King is no fool and when one of the other D is healthy, Gus will be scratched.

Last night they played a Nashville team that beat them like a rented mule last year. They played a solid, boring game and prevailed. If not for Saros, maybe they win by a couple of goals. He was surely tested more than Lankinen.

I prefer King’s resume for sure but the talent on both the AHL and NHL rosters are thin. King doesn’t have a whole lot to work with and bad rosters usually make bad coaches, or at least the average fan views coaches that way.
- paulr

Lets just say the talent on both rosters was thinned out over the years because of salary cap issues, weak drafting, player development problems and probably management infighting.

However, to me the most important job for AHL coaches is not to win necessarily but to develop 1 or 2 players a year that can potentially be regular contributors on an NHL roster.

Tampa does it the best. Nashville used to do an excellent job. Buffalo is/was horrendous at it.

This alone is a huge breath of fresh air
- fattybeef

I never understood this frame of mind. I get people like to cheer for nice, or likable, people, but if a coach wins no one cares. Case in point, Q. If he didn't have the wins, he would be seen as a grumpy old bastard that never won anything. There would be no one clamoring for his system.

He was at least a good NHL player which should garner some respect and he has paid his dues coaching wise.
- fattybeef

Coaches don't necessarily need heaps loads of experience coaching or even playing for that matter (although it helps). Look at Dirk Graham and Savard, didn't help them.

I'm sure management was hoping JC would become the next Jon Cooper. Cooper played no professional hockey, in fact he was a public defender for 10 years or so before going into coaching.

He had 2-3 years coaching in the AHL where he won a Calder Cup and boom, he's head coach of the Bolts. Granted he inherited a stacked line-up from Boucher. No NHL-level coaching experience before joining the ranks.

Lets just say the talent on both rosters was thinned out over the years because of salary cap issues, weak drafting, player development problems and probably management infighting.

However, to me the most important job for AHL coaches is not to win necessarily but to develop 1 or 2 players a year that can potentially be regular contributors on an NHL roster.

Tampa does it the best. Nashville used to do an excellent job. Buffalo is/was horrendous at it.
- RickJ

Yeah it’s nearly impossible to give King’s AHL record a fair shake. The cupboards have been thin for a decade, and anyone who does look like an impactful player is called up. Other teams with deeper benches have no problem leaving a Boqvist or Dach in the minors to play big minutes and get used to playing against men. King has been working with the likes of Cody Franson and Brett Connolly, and a revolving door of Mitchell, Beaudin, Entwhistle, etc.

I am excited to hear who he thinks is a solid call-up, because there are some guys who have actually played down there a few years now and he’s watched them mature. With Hagel going down we might need another forward if Gaudette and Borgstrom aren’t in.

System plays a part, but what was more detrimental to the team was the way in which JC utilized players. At no point should Carpenter have been taking a regular shift with Toews. At no point should Gus have been getting regular minutes, etc. etc. King takes over Carpenter plays well on a 4th line with Khaira and Kurashev, Strome has a regular shift and Gus plays 6 mins. Maybe how it should be. The fact that Gus got 4:30 of 5-on-5 ice time tells me King is no fool and when one of the other D is healthy, Gus will be scratched.

Last night they played a Nashville team that beat them like a rented mule last year. They played a solid, boring game and prevailed. If not for Saros, maybe they win by a couple of goals. He was surely tested more than Lankinen.
- TheTrob

I think this is spot on. Additionally, I think he was so hell bent on getting everyone to adhere to the tenets of his system that it didn't allow for improvising in cases where the structure was already broken

I never understood this frame of mind. I get people like to cheer for nice, or likable, people, but if a coach wins no one cares. Case in point, Q. If he didn't have the wins, he would be seen as a grumpy old bastard that never won anything. There would be no one clamoring for his system.
- Chunk

Oh, I think King will be tough when he needs to be, I don't think he is Mr. Rogers. But you have to read the room. You could see the Hawks were squeezing their sticks. But instead of maybe lightening up for a bit, JC just pushed harder, bag skate, Strome, Gaudette in and out because of a mistake, playing guys way above their ability because of "grit".

I will name some for you - Al Arbour, Pat Quinn, Q, Rick Wilson, Pronger, Lafontaine, Turgeon, Bryan Trottier, Ray Ferraro.

250+ goals in a career is better than most who pull on a jersey in the NHL.
- RickJ

Why did he have to wait until he was 50+ years old to get ANY head coaching jobs, at any level?

To reiterate.....he seems like a hockey guy to me and I'm glad he's here and JC is out. Just trying to understand how his experience differs from JC's in any material sense.

I am having a rare moment of optimism. I could see this team hovering a bit above .500 the rest of the way. Won't get them into the playoffs, but it will get me in front of the TV.
I am perhaps going to give King too much credit here, but I think his lineup last night put a few players on notice. DeHaan, Gus, and Kurashev should be on the verge of being pushed out of the lineup in my opinion and King's lineup reflects that. Get Kalynuk, C. Jones and Borgstrom into the lineup and suddenly things start looking like most games are winnable at the opening faceoff.

I never understood this frame of mind. I get people like to cheer for nice, or likable, people, but if a coach wins no one cares. Case in point, Q. If he didn't have the wins, he would be seen as a grumpy old bastard that never won anything. There would be no one clamoring for his system.
- Chunk

No sure about that, if King is able to string a few wins together there will be posters on here minimizing the hockey record and advocating he needs to sign up with Hair Club for Men.

I listened to the post game interviews with Kaner and Tazer. They asked about Colliton and they both said they felt bad because they felt that they had something to do with their play. But listening carefully, Kaner touched on how they just went out and played with their instincts ..... not over think anything. Seems like Colliton might have over coached the team. Too much into detail. Kaner also said that he looked up Derek King on hockey db, and saw he had 600 pts in 800 nhl games. "That's instant respect ! Colliton's lack of NHL experience did not earn the respect of veterans and although a smart hockey mind, sometimes simplify the game. There are enough veterans on the team that know the game.

I am having a rare moment of optimism. I could see this team hovering a bit above .500 the rest of the way. Won't get them into the playoffs, but it will get me in front of the TV.
I am perhaps going to give King too much credit here, but I think his lineup last night put a few players on notice. DeHaan, Gus, and Kurashev should be on the verge of being pushed out of the lineup in my opinion and King's lineup reflects that. Get Kalynuk, C. Jones and Borgstrom into the lineup and suddenly things start looking like most games are winnable at the opening faceoff.
- GreenJeans

At this point, my goal for the season is to end up with the 12-16th draft pick so that I don't feel awful for trading away our first this year for Jones. If we end up there, we might even end up with a late first rounder trading parts to a contender.

Why did he have to wait until he was 50+ years old to get ANY head coaching jobs, at any level?

To reiterate.....he seems like a hockey guy to me and I'm glad he's here and JC is out. Just trying to understand how his experience differs from JC's in any material sense.
- mohel

Look at Bowness in Dallas. NHL player, assistant coach forever in the NHL, head coach in the NHL with probably the worst record ever, takes over Dallas mid-season a couple of years ago, as interim, and named head coach.

Bowness was hired by the Dallas Stars as an assistant coach on June 22, 2018.[6][7] On December 10, 2019, he was named interim head coach of the Stars after Jim Montgomery was fired due to unprofessional conduct.[8][9][10] At the time of his promotion, Bowness had a career record of 123–289–51 as a head coach.[9] He led the Stars to the Stanley Cup Finals where they lost to his former team, the Tampa Bay Lightning, in six games.

On October 29, 2020, he was named the Stars' 24th head coach in the franchise history.[11]

I listened to the post game interviews with Kaner and Tazer. They asked about Colliton and they both said they felt bad because they felt that they had something to do with their play. But listening carefully, Kaner touched on how they just went out and played with their instincts ..... not over think anything. Seems like Colliton might have over coached the team. Too much into detail. Kaner also said that he looked up Derek King on hockey db, and saw he had 600 pts in 800 nhl games. "That's instant respect ! Colliton's lack of NHL experience did not earn the respect of veterans and although a smart hockey mind, sometimes simplify the game. There are enough veterans on the team that know the game.
- chuckdahammer

I wonder how Cooper got the respect of the vets on his team?

Why did he have to wait until he was 50+ years old to get ANY head coaching jobs, at any level?

To reiterate.....he seems like a hockey guy to me and I'm glad he's here and JC is out. Just trying to understand how his experience differs from JC's in any material sense.
- mohel

How do they differ? Lets see 16 year 800+ game playing career vs. 57 NHL games. 10 years as Assistant/Associate coach in AHL then 4 as HC vs. 3 years in lower Tier sweedish league as HC.

Yeah, I can see as how they are similar........ummmmmm

Lets just say the talent on both rosters was thinned out over the years because of salary cap issues, weak drafting, player development problems and probably management infighting.

However, to me the most important job for AHL coaches is not to win necessarily but to develop 1 or 2 players a year that can potentially be regular contributors on an NHL roster.

Tampa does it the best. Nashville used to do an excellent job. Buffalo is/was horrendous at it.
- RickJ

Bingo!

Borgstrom has been out of covid protocol for five days and we haven’t put him in. We’ve gone with Hardman, Carpenter, and Khaira instead? A bit redundant. And even if you argue ‘well he needs top 9 guys to play with’ ok, why not throw him in for Kurashev who’s been snakebitten? I love Kurashev and think he’ll be a fine player, but he’s been invisible vs last year.