I guess the real question is this, which teams make max "effort" regularly?

I guess the real question is this, which teams make max "effort" regularly?
- mickel25

I laugh hysterically when I read that the Flyers do something more than any other team.

I laugh hysterically when I read that the Flyers do something more than any other team.

- MJL

like lose in the shootout......yeah hilarious

it will 99% be rick tocchet....
- hello it's me 2050

I was just thinking the same thing, can the Flyers truly resist an ex-player who is between head coaching jobs??

I thought the culture was changed with the moves?
- MJL

I don't think right now there is a leadership or culture issue with this team, do you?

And note: the Flyers are 5-2-2 while playing without their best defenseman and 2C, and this is the level of negativity that is out there. I can only imagine what it would be like if the record was reversed!

Follow up question. Flyers are currently ninth overall in points in the NHL. The "effort" is nonexistent, the coach sucks, the Captain is a bad leader and they have many players who are terrible. How are they able to be so high in the standings? How do they win games?

Follow up question. Flyers are currently ninth overall in points in the NHL. The "effort" is nonexistent, the coach sucks, the Captain is a bad leader and they have many players who are terrible. How are they able to be so high in the standings? How do they win games?
- mickel25

Just posted the same thing ... its actually comical. When the Flyers beat Arizona the other day, there was barely 2 pages of comments, yet they lose in OT last night (still get a point) and look where we are!

I don't think right now there is a leadership or culture issue with this team, do you?

And note: the Flyers are 5-2-2 while playing without their best defenseman and 2C, and this is the level of negativity that is out there. I can only imagine what it would be like if the record was reversed!
- jd250

The point is that we see some of the same issues that we saw last year. The whole idea of a culture change is and always was, nonsense.

I think most see that although they have a decent record, they're really not a top team. It's a long season and hopefully they get a couple of players back and that will help. However it won't fix everything.
Again, where is the bar set? For me, anything less than legitimate contention is a failure.

Follow up question. Flyers are currently ninth overall in points in the NHL. The "effort" is nonexistent, the coach sucks, the Captain is a bad leader and they have many players who are terrible. How are they able to be so high in the standings? How do they win games?
- mickel25

unsustainably

unsustainably
- Scoob

Perhaps. I think they are a playoff team though. Does that mean they are a contender? Probably not right now.

like lose in the shootout......yeah hilarious
- Peter Richards

Thank you for proving my point. Go back say 5-7 years and look at the shootout results across the league. Easy to do. You'll be surprised.

Perhaps. I think they are a playoff team though. Does that mean they are a contender? Probably not right now.
- mickel25

IMO you make the playoffs you are in contention. Make the playoffs first. adjust and tweak in the offseason to improve.

Thank you for proving my point. Go back say 5-7 years and look at the shootout results across the league. Easy to do. You'll be surprised.
- MJL

Since the shootout started, the flyers are the worst team. Look at overall, not just one season that works for you.

here

https://records.nhl.com/r...st-shootout-wins-all-time

Since the shootout started, the flyers are the worst team. Look at overall, not just one season that works for you.

here

https://records.nhl.com/r...st-shootout-wins-all-time
- Peter Richards

I didn't look at one season. I look back 5-7 like I said. Teams evolve and players change so looking back that far doesn't paint an accurate picture. Flyers also have one of the highest winning percentages going back to their start. Does that make them one of the best teams? Flyers haven't won the Cup since 75.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...WinPct&page=0&pageSize=50

Flyers aren't great at the shootout in recent times but they certainly aren't the worst.

IMO you make the playoffs you are in contention. Make the playoffs first. adjust and tweak in the offseason to improve.
- Peter Richards

How many teams make the playoffs? 16? They're all contenders? Hardly.

Perhaps. I think they are a playoff team though. Does that mean they are a contender? Probably not right now.
- mickel25

I agree - I think they'll get in.

How many teams make the playoffs? 16? They're all contenders? Hardly.
- MJL

Under the "gotta be in it to win it" theory, they are.

Throw reality and objectivity into it and well, no, not all of them are.

Follow up question. Flyers are currently ninth overall in points in the NHL. The "effort" is nonexistent, the coach sucks, the Captain is a bad leader and they have many players who are terrible. How are they able to be so high in the standings? How do they win games?
- mickel25

Same as the start to last season: very opportunistic on the chances they create.

With new veterans & the turnover the team went through in the summer maybe it’s time for the Giroux apologists to see the truth? The guy puts up points but stinks as a leader thus the reason why this team looks mostly the same (uninspired) for a majority of games this year. Jake can no longer be blamed so whose the scapegoat now for the last decade of mediocrity. Morgan Frost? Nate Thompson? The same popcorn vendor that has been employed for G’s captain tenure? The problem has always started atvthe top w him yet people are blinded by his stats. Lackadaisical culture created by the C.
- Fopa21

Jake can no longer be blamed? What are you even talking about?? What do you want G to do, whip each player individually after every loss or pour performance? You said it yourself, G puts up points. He shows up. It’s a little thing call leading by example. Do you think Steve Yzerman was this big vocal leader in the wings dressing room?

Same as the start to last season: very opportunistic on the chances they create.
- Pelle31Forever

Offensively yes this season is the same as last year. I think team defense has improved a lot. Same with the goaltending. I think the improved defense and goaltending are here to stay.

Under the "gotta be in it to win it" theory, they are.

Throw reality and objectivity into it and well, no, not all of them are.
- Scoob

Personally I'm not looking for the Flyers to be a team that hopes they can get in and maybe gel and make a one season run at it. I want the team to elevate to true contender status where they open a window to contend over a significant period of time.

Bill Meltzer: Musings and Quick Hits: Flyers-Pens Redux, Line Observations, Warriors
- bmeltzer

Nice rundown of how the lines and pairings are doing Bill -- agree 100% w/ what you're seeing.

If the Flyers think they can maintain these elevated SH% and SV% all year, and play large portions of the game w/o the puck, then they're just gonna repeat last season.

I don't think the team played terribly last night, but yeah... AV's assessment seems kinda rosy. Doubt he's being completely honest with you all.

Nice rundown of how the lines and pairings are doing Bill -- agree 100% w/ what you're seeing.

If the Flyers think they can maintain these elevated SH% and SV% all year, and play large portions of the game w/o the puck, then they're just gonna repeat last season.

I don't think the team played terribly last night, but yeah... AV's assessment seems kinda rosy. Doubt he's being completely honest with you all.
- Tomahawk

It's early in the season and we have to see how hopefully having Ellis and Hayes back can help mitigate the issues. Early returns though suggest that Chuck Fletcher may have made a critical error.

Personally I'm not looking for the Flyers to be a team that hopes they can get in and maybe gel and make a one season run at it. I want the team to elevate to true contender status where they open a window to contend over a significant period of time.
- MJL

Same here. I would imagine that's what all fans want.

The point is that we see some of the same issues that we saw last year. The whole idea of a culture change is and always was, nonsense.



I think most see that although they have a decent record, they're really not a top team. It's a long season and hopefully they get a couple of players back and that will help. However it won't fix everything.
Again, where is the bar set? For me, anything less than legitimate contention is a failure.
- MJL

is this fact or your opinion? lol