I don't think I'd move Jake for Hertl if contracts were equal.
- j.boyd919

You wouldn’t want to trade a 70 point per 82 game player for a 52 point per 82 game player?

Nah he's a passenger for sure. Nothing wrong with that, as there aren't many players who can drive a line. I absolutely don't think the Pens should entertain a Guentzel trade because you'll never get the value back you have in Guentzel.

When you say he hasn't been the same since surgery, do you realize the season after his surgery he put up 57 pts in 56 gp? Seems like he's fine.

From 2018-19 - 2021, Guentzel is 10th in the NHL in goals at 5v5 with 56, right next to Pasta, Gallagher, Tavares, Kane, Marchand, Conner, etc.

He's also got basically the same PPG (.86 PPG) over his career as Barkov. (.88 PPG) and there's no way the Panthers would entertain trading Barkov.

Pens have Guentzel at a bargain price scoring at a top 10 winger rate.

You won't find what he offers in terms of scoring vs. value contract. Guentzel is severely underrated around the NHL.
- j.boyd919

I realize the production but he just hasn't seemed as confident with or as strong on the puck since he went flying into the boards late December that year. He even said he doesn't feel as strong and wanted to try and get stronger in this past offseason.

I agree with everything you're saying though. I do not want to trade Jake and if we did it would be very hard to get that value back.

More dynamic and less productive?
- Feds91Stammer

If Sid and Geno are out of the line and I had a choice between Hertl or Jake to be in the lineup, I'm taking Hertl.

If Sid and Geno are out of the line and I had a choice between Hertl or Jake to be in the lineup, I'm taking Hertl.
- Rinosaur

So you want the less productive forward? Sound logic.

So you want the less productive forward? Sound logic.
- Feds91Stammer

Exactly. Let's keep oversimplifying.

Exactly. Let's keep oversimplifying.
- Rinosaur

So Hertl isn’t less productive?

So Hertl isn’t less productive?
- Feds91Stammer

It's not just about production and the fact Hertl has been playing on a crap SJ team is definitely a factor in his production.

Here's a comparison from natty based on last season...

Well Hertl isn’t available anyways. He’s going to form the Czech line of:
Vrana - Hertl - Zadina
- Feds91Stammer

Isn't Hertl german?

It's not just about production and the fact Hertl has been playing on a crap SJ team is definitely a factor in his production.
- Rinosaur

Ahh yes Hertl will magically become a point per game player in PIT.

The pens margin of error is so small and you’re entertaining the idea of swapping for a less productive player.

Exactly the kind of logic we expect from you.

Isn't Hertl german?
- Barnaby36

No

Ahh yes Hertl will magically become a point per game player in PIT.

The pens margin of error is so small and you’re entertaining the idea of swapping for a less productive player.

Exactly the kind of logic we expect from you.
- Feds91Stammer

I posted the stats that prove you wrong, but hey, you're not very intelligent and totally stubborn so I expect continued pushback.

I realize the production but he just hasn't seemed as confident with or as strong on the puck since he went flying into the boards late December that year. He even said he doesn't feel as strong and wanted to try and get stronger in this past offseason.

I agree with everything you're saying though. I do not want to trade Jake and if we did it would be very hard to get that value back.
- MattStrat

That's never been his game, in my opinion. He's a winger who finds soft spots in the D coverage and opens up for catch and release shots. Sure you need elements of boardplay to your game, but I don't really expect him to grind it out along the wall.

I posted the stats that prove you wrong, but hey, you're not very intelligent and totally stubborn so I expect continued pushback.
- Rinosaur

You posted stats from a division locked season that didn’t include any individual production. Congrats.

That's never been his game, in my opinion. He's a winger who finds soft spots in the D coverage and opens up for catch and release shots. Sure you need elements of boardplay to your game, but I don't really expect him to grind it out along the wall.
- j.boyd919

I think you might need to revisit some of the 2017 cup run footage to see how much stronger he used to be on the puck..he'd also take a beating without flinching usually hahah

I think you might need to revisit some of the 2017 cup run footage to see how much stronger he used to be on the puck..he'd also take a beating without flinching usually hahah
- MattStrat

Just looking at this, most of his goals were from the rush/soft spots in the slot. Maybe 1-2 net front goals.

Jake will improve the same as Tanger and Dumo once Sid is back. That's kind of the problem though isn't it? I'm actually intrigued with who can play with Sid and Jake while Rusty is out. I absolutely think ERod has earned a look.

I've mentioned for the last couple years Sid needs someone to help with the heavy lifting. Jake isn't that guy, even Rusty has changed his game to more of an east West player. To his credit it has resulted in a more proficient goal scoring ability.

Sid can't beat 3 guys down low by himself anymore.

Just looking at this, most of his goals were from the rush/soft spots in the slot. Maybe 1-2 net front goals.
- j.boyd919

hahaha I posted this vid in the last month or so talking about how he should of been in Conn Smythe talks that year.

These goals don't tell the whole story though...but of those goals there a nice few right on top of the goalie. Havent seen much of that so far this season or last.

hahaha I posted this vid in the last month or so talking about how he should of been in Conn Smythe talks that year.

These goals don't tell the whole story though...but of those goals there a nice few right on top of the goalie. Havent seen much of that so far this season or last.
- MattStrat

Yeah maybe 1-2, maybe 3? But either way, he does most of his damage on the rush/soft spots which is what I was saying before.

Here's his individual shot map from this season.



Here's last season:

Jake will improve the same as Tanger and Dumo once Sid is back. That's kind of the problem though isn't it? I'm actually intrigued with who can play with Sid and Jake while Rusty is out. I absolutely think ERod has earned a look.

I've mentioned for the last couple years Sid needs someone to help with the heavy lifting. Jake isn't that guy, even Rusty has changed his game to more of an east West player. To his credit it has resulted in a more proficient goal scoring ability.

Sid can't beat 3 guys down low by himself anymore.
- Thorny87

That's why I think Zucker is the better fit for Sid's line. Not that he's incredibly strong on the puck, but if Rust ends up being Sid's RW, going Zucker-Sid-Rust give you someone to work the corners with Sid and Rust to find the soft spots.

Then with Jake-Geno-Kapenan, you give Geno 2 threats. Kapenan uses his speed to push the D back, giving Jake more room to open up with his elite catch and shoot shot.

Or TBH, use DOC with Jake-Geno and drop Kap to Carter's line.


Zucker-Sid-Rust
Jake-Geno-DOC
Erod-Carter-Kap
ZAR-Blue-McGinn/Heimen/Boyle/Simon/Jagr/Lang/Straka/Kovalev

We can't move Guentz, contract is good. We can't even package him for someone better because we'd be over the cap. Hertle is a good player but I wouldn't move Guentz for him.

That's why I think Zucker is the better fit for Sid's line. Not that he's incredibly strong on the puck, but if Rust ends up being Sid's RW, going Zucker-Sid-Rust give you someone to work the corners with Sid and Rust to find the soft spots.

Then with Jake-Geno-Kapenan, you give Geno 2 threats. Kapenan uses his speed to push the D back, giving Jake more room to open up with his elite catch and shoot shot.

Or TBH, use DOC with Jake-Geno and drop Kap to Carter's line.


Zucker-Sid-Rust
Jake-Geno-DOC
Erod-Carter-Kap
ZAR-Blue-McGinn/Heimen/Boyle/Simon/Jagr/Lang/Straka/Kovalev
- j.boyd919

What Jags do this time to get in the dog house lol

Yeah maybe 1-2, maybe 3? But either way, he does most of his damage on the rush/soft spots which is what I was saying before.

Here's his individual shot map from this season.



Here's last season:

- j.boyd919

I'm not disputing or arguing where he gets the majority of his goals from at all, thought you were right about that before posting this.

He's bumped off puck easier and isnt as fearless as back then IMO.

That's why I think Zucker is the better fit for Sid's line. Not that he's incredibly strong on the puck, but if Rust ends up being Sid's RW, going Zucker-Sid-Rust give you someone to work the corners with Sid and Rust to find the soft spots.

Then with Jake-Geno-Kapenan, you give Geno 2 threats. Kapenan uses his speed to push the D back, giving Jake more room to open up with his elite catch and shoot shot.

Or TBH, use DOC with Jake-Geno and drop Kap to Carter's line.


Zucker-Sid-Rust
Jake-Geno-DOC
Erod-Carter-Kap
ZAR-Blue-McGinn/Heimen/Boyle/Simon/Jagr/Lang/Straka/Kovalev
- j.boyd919

Hahah

I like that look of those top 9 lines.