I agree with some of your points.....however I have serious (not trying to troll here) question

Is it not their responsibility to show leadership?

Going by Toews own comments, he found out about it in the following training camp.

As captain did he ever check in with Kyle?
Did he ever tell the team to “lay off”/ “back off”?
Did he do ANYTHING at all to be helpful? To be a leader?

According to Kyle, he was bullied AFTER in the locker room, arena, etc. That would mean he was being bullied AFTER Toews knew what transpired and apparently did nothing, said nothing.
- Bren4Wings

And this is where your entire point falls on it's face - Kyle Beach played ZERO games in the NHL, so Toews wasn't around. All his bullying and incidents happened in the AHL.

Regarding the ‘everyone knew’ part of this, and sorry if it’s been brought up already.

I believe every reporter that was covering the team in 2010 & beyond is on record as saying they were not aware.

The beat guys are with the team at practices, in the locker room, etc. every day, so if they didn't hear anything, did ‘everyone’ know?
- scottak

That's what I was questioning....and if people think that answer is "yes" as Sopel and Boynton and Beach say.....then I also say you need to put blame on Rocky Wirtz who was as hands on as it got....at games, press conferences, traveled with the team.....was in pHilly....cup parade, parties.....and his head HR lady knew as well.....so do we think something as serious as this....was kept 100% silent from Wirtz?

Where is Aldrich currently?Jail or on bail pending court or what does anyone know?And yes this pos needs to run into a deliverance type jail experience.
- eagle50

I believe he is out. He only got 9 months for what he did to the minor. That was in 2014.

Interesting, you are aware that guys like Pietro, Theodore, Makar, Byram and even E. Johnson lead the rush up the ice quite frequently?
- Elbows15

But they also protect the house or go to the boards and try to stay on the right side of the puck, when the opponent has established some possession in their own zone, i don't know if Byram does but from the rest of them is what i see

Toews’ comments yesterday were kind of tone-deaf, but he always seems to be very guarded in what he says - I don’t ever get the feeling that he’s speaking from “the heart”, but more to minimize any damage that could come out.

Kane usually is more open (notwithstanding that presser in 2015 with McDonough sitting there). His comments yesterday were certainly more sympathetic than those of Toews.

But yesterday must have been hard on both of them (without trying to minimize the hurt that Beach has been feeling): Bowman and Quenneville had been with them for all (in Bowman’s case) and most (in Quenneville’s) of their careers - probably the two people in the organization closest to them. Talking about how two affected their careers and lives, and expressing the sadness about what did (and could) happen to them - I think it was a natural response to the situation.

I, of course, have no idea about what they did and didn’t know 11 years ago - or what they should or couldn’t have known then - or about the razzing the Beach apparently was (most unfortunately) forced to endure.
- StLBravesFan

To kind of further the thought, I think both of these guys have been groomed for years to give the sports soundbites and am not really surprised that they missed an opportunity to show more support for Beech when confronted with a really tough subject.

I know people were possibly looking for something more but I think what we got was about what I expected.

Had thought about their relationships with Q and Stan over their careers and I'm not sure why anyone would be shocked that there was at least some show of support from both players for their bosses.

I suppose you can say it was excessive in Toews case but I know when Kane was a rookie he lived with Stan and his family so I'm really not all that surprised at what he said.

I agree with some of your points.....however I have serious (not trying to troll here) question

Is it not their responsibility to show leadership?

Going by Toews own comments, he found out about it in the following training camp.

As captain did he ever check in with Kyle?
Did he ever tell the team to “lay off”/ “back off”?
Did he do ANYTHING at all to be helpful? To be a leader?

According to Kyle, he was bullied AFTER in the locker room, arena, etc. That would mean he was being bullied AFTER Toews knew what transpired and apparently did nothing, said nothing.
- Bren4Wings

We don't know what the individual players did or whether any of them stuck up for Kyle. Lots of people saying they did nothing, said nothing, and if that's true, I definitely cannot look at them with the respect I once did.

However, someone reminded me that until the settlement is reached, any exonerating statements are probably being discouraged by Beach's attorney. If he were to say that some provided support, it belies just a bit (but not totally) the hostile environment that is part of the suit. Maybe he hasn't come out with that info (except to acknowledge Sopel and Boynton's support this year) because he has been asked not to do so.

FWIW, the ONLY Blackhawk that Beach follows on SM is Toews.

That's what I was questioning....and if people think that answer is "yes" as Sopel and Boynton and Beach say.....then I also say you need to put blame on Rocky Wirtz who was as hands on as it got....at games, press conferences, traveled with the team.....was in pHilly....cup parade, parties.....and his head HR lady knew as well.....so do we think something as serious as this....was kept 100% silent from Wirtz?
- SteveRain

So, by admission Sopel and Boynton knew? How are they somehow escaping criticism for not ensuring more was done?

Somehow it was 20 year old Kane and Toews job to do something, but not more established, older veterans?

How do you suggest Toews should have handled it?
- paulr

Would all depend on what he knew and when he knew it

I am of the opinion that MOST players who heard about it heard the "Boiled down telephone version" where it was likely summed up that "Kyle got drunk and went to the gay video guys house and got sucked off", in which they just laughed and teased, and joked about it. Keep in mind, through the other players eyes, the thought of that being FORCED by the "video guy" was an utter impossibility

Had Toews even heard the entire truth back then an older person would likely have been able to look into it, shut the talk down and been able to have the mature talk with coaches/management

But it doesn't surprise me that a 20 year old might be so wide eyed and shell shocked by it all that he put his head in the sand and hoped it went away

So, by admission Sopel and Boynton knew? How are they somehow escaping criticism for not ensuring more was done?

Somehow it was 20 year old Kane and Toews job to do something, but not more established, older veterans?
- TheGame316

I don't know that they are. Before the findings I think there was criticism for both for claiming everyone knew yet nothing was done.

If ‘everyone’ knew, you’d think the beat writers would have picked up on the story. They’re with the team at practice, in the locker room , on the road, etc.

I believe most, if not all of the beat guys are on record that they were not aware of the incident. And they likely would have reported on it if they were aware.

So, while some may have perceived that ‘everyone knew’, I’m not sure that that was actually the case.

What is our PK? 3rd in the league and it's a zone defense, is it really that hard to imagine that we could actually have a solid defense if we played a zone defense with 5 guys? To me it isn't. And i only saw Mitchell chase the puck out to the blue line the other night on defense, so either they decided to keep the dmen low or the Leafs didn't keep the puck long enough in our zone last night. We'll see

And this is where your entire point falls on it's face - Kyle Beach played ZERO games in the NHL, so Toews wasn't around. All his bullying and incidents happened in the AHL.
- Tanuki

Fair point. However, they would have been around each other during training camp/preseason, right? If that’s when Toews learned of it, would it not also make one think that’s when others did as well? And may have been the “tipping off point”?

What is our PK? 3rd in the league and it's a zone defense, is it really that hard to imagine that we could actually have a solid defense if we played a zone defense with 5 guys? To me it isn't. And i only saw Mitchell chase the puck out to the blue line the other night on defense, so either they decided to keep the dmen low or the Leafs didn't keep the puck long enough in our zone last night. We'll see
- BetweenTheDots

Been saying that for a while - should we not attempt to apply what is working well there to our 5-on-5 scheme?

We don't know what the individual players did or whether any of them stuck up for Kyle. Lots of people saying they did nothing, said nothing, and if that's true, I definitely cannot look at them with the respect I once did.

However, someone reminded me that until the settlement is reached, any exonerating statements are probably being discouraged by Beach's attorney. If he were to say that some provided support, it belies just a bit (but not totally) the hostile environment that is part of the suit. Maybe he hasn't come out with that info (except to acknowledge Sopel and Boynton's support this year) because he has been asked not to do so.

FWIW, the ONLY Blackhawk that Beach follows on SM is Toews.
- pdx2ord

Great response. Thank you.

Fair point. However, they would have been around each other during training camp/preseason, right? If that’s when Toews learned of it, would it not also make one think that’s when others did as well? And may have been the “tipping off point”?
- Bren4Wings

Idk, to me the bigger fail would be that after all this happened he was in the organization for several more years and just continued to spiral down the drain when help could have been given.

So, by admission Sopel and Boynton knew? How are they somehow escaping criticism for not ensuring more was done?

Somehow it was 20 year old Kane and Toews job to do something, but not more established, older veterans?
- TheGame316

I don't disagree....

@KevinWeekes

I’m hearing there’s a coaching change coming shortly with the
@FlaPanthers. Keep an eye on my @espn colleague John Tortorella as one of the top potential candidates.

=======

Whole lot of revered figures going down - hope there's quite a bit of "if I had it to do over again, I'd..." reflection that would result

@KevinWeekes

I’m hearing there’s a coaching change coming shortly with the
@FlaPanthers. Keep an eye on my @espn colleague John Tortorella as one of the top potential candidates.

=======

Whole lot of revered figures going down - hope there's quite a bit of "if I had it to do over again, I'd..." reflection that would result
- pdx2ord

Had to laugh at this response...I feel you on that, my dude


@BarryARothman

If Torts is the new coach, I will be totally pissed. Have no interest in watching chip and chase hockey and having Barkov become a shot blocker. Hell no.

@KevinWeekes

I’m hearing there’s a coaching change coming shortly with the
@FlaPanthers. Keep an eye on my @espn colleague John Tortorella as one of the top potential candidates.
- pdx2ord

If true this is far reaching. If Q is fired/resigns I wonder this will prevent him from what should be a certainty, getting into the Hall of Fame?

If true this is far reaching. If Q is fired/resigns I wonder this will prevent him from what should be a certainty, getting into the Hall of Fame?
- paulr

You would think the top three from the 10's would have been shoo-in's (McD, Stan, Q) - now, I just don't know. Maybe they'll be in there in a new wing dubbed the Hockey Hall of Fame & Shame.

Hull can join them in there.

If true this is far reaching. If Q is fired/resigns I wonder this will prevent him from what should be a certainty, getting into the Hall of Fame?
- paulr

he's out. Florida beat guy confirmed it.

I don't see how Chevy isn't fired tomorrow...Winnipeg moved up his meeting.

If ‘everyone’ knew, you’d think the beat writers would have picked up on the story. They’re with the team at practice, in the locker room , on the road, etc.

I believe most, if not all of the beat guys are on record that they were not aware of the incident. And they likely would have reported on it if they were aware.

So, while some may have perceived that ‘everyone knew’, I’m not sure that that was actually the case.
- scottak

This is a good point. Most of us have been involved in a conversation where one person is going on about some topic with the assumption that everyone knows what they’re talking about, and then when someone questions them they say something like “I thought everyone knew that?”

The perception that everyone must have know what Sopel and Boynton claim to have known may be more than just a little flawed.

I agree and I have tried to write a post on 3 separate occasions....and I just can't get past step 1 without getting angry.....

I am torn on what/who I believe knew what, and when....I watched the Beach interview and hearing him talk about it vs reading it in a report....was hard, sad, and aggravating not at Beach but how simple the solution was to fix this asap.....and a president at the time with an ego of infinite size that now will NOT only destroy his professional career....but the careers of so many more......

I hate John McDonough...I hated him after meeting him in person and the more and more time went on you knew, unless you burried your head, his meddling and wanting COMPLETE control over anything and taking credit for the good....and stone walling anyone asking about anything bad.....and if you don't believe the meddling, go look up the athletic article......Paul's dream of a rebuild in 2016 would have been 2 years later but the McDonough stooge nuked that quickly........

I sent Kyle Beach a message on twitter. I give him infinite credit for what he did and the courage it took to out himself, and speak about it and seeing him break down was about as sad a thing I have seen in my life. I hope one day he can find peace.

I always tell all my family, friends the best teammates I had as a kid/young man and adult were my hockey teammates. 99% are solid people, and it's a special niche because it's not a mainstream sport....it gave me such joy in June of 2010 to see kids in my neighborhood playing street hockey, kids wearing gear to school.....finally the best kept secret in American sports was about to take off, and did.....and now all those people feel stained because a piece of human trash couldn't put a video coach on a PAID administrative leave in May of 2020 and start an internal investigation right after the cup run.....instead he took the easy way out.....F John McDonough....that my fellow posters WAS the play.

Maybe he should throw himself another parade like he did in Elk Grove Village but this time we can throw rotten food at him like a medieval prisoner? Even then....it isn't enough.
- SteveRain

THIS ONE TRILLION PERCENT!!!!

He owns this entire situation!

Effing coward has yet to make a statement while leaving everyone below him take the fire.

What kind of “man” let that happen then and now watches his former organization colleagues take the fall for what he did / didn’t do.

An absolute disgrace.

Exhale.

THIS ONE TRILLION PERCENT!!!!

He owns this entire situation!

Effing coward has yet to make a statement while leaving everyone below him take the fire.

What kind of “man” let that happen then and now watches his former organization colleagues take the fall for what he did / didn’t do.

An absolute disgrace.

Exhale.
- mike7076

Thanks....and that should say 2010 NOT 2020.....I was too angry when I typed it and had to spell his name.

This is a good point. Most of us have been involved in a conversation where one person is going on about some topic with the assumption that everyone knows what they’re talking about, and then when someone questions them they say something like “I thought everyone knew that?”

The perception that everyone must have know what Sopel and Boynton claim to have known may be more than just a little flawed.
- Ogilthorpe2

Agreed....assuming vs knowing is entirely different.