I would think less of a role and a better more stable supporting cast is what the Flyers were banking on. I agree 100% he’s not a top tier d man. But I do think he has a lot a very good attributes that will help the Flyers. I guess we’ll see.
- landros 2

Well how is playing with Sanheim , who don't think is that good, going to help him? He wont be in less of a role here unless he is demoted to the 3rd pair.

He has been in the league what 8 or 9 years? He is what he is at this point.

The bottom line is we can hope that he improves and have to give him time to see how he plays. However to believe that at this point in his career, is he really going to make dramatic changes in his level of play? Not very high odds of that. Not impossible though. Bottom line is this is not a player that you should be trading a 1st, 2nd and a player for. If he was younger and a 2nd or 3rd year player, I could see it. The Flyers when combined with the lack of cost certainty, have taken on a serious risk here.

Well how is playing with Sanheim , who don't think is that good, going to help him? He wont be in less of a role here unless he is demoted to the 3rd pair.

He has been in the league what 8 or 9 years? He is what he is at this point.
- hello it's me 2050

You do realize he’s only a year older then Sanheim right ? He came into the league as a teenager. That’s pretty tough for a dman to do. He has averaged around 24 minutes a night up till this year…he won’t see much PP time here, at least not yet. He averaged under 19 minutes in his first couple games this year. He was a top pairing dman in Buffalo…here there are two guys that in my view are superior, Ellis and Provy. If the Flyers get a guy that plays physical, moves the puck, keeps it simple in his own end for 20 odd minutes a night and helps Sanheim form a formidable, reliable 2nd pairing then the trade is a success.

You do realize he’s only a year older then Sanheim right ? He came into the league as a teenager. That’s pretty tough for a dman to do. He has averaged around 24 minutes a night up till this year…he won’t see much PP time here, at least not yet. He averaged under 19 minutes in his first couple games this year. He was a top pairing dman in Buffalo…here there are two guys that in my view are superior, Ellis and Provy. If the Flyers get a guy that plays physical, moves the puck, keeps it simple in his own end for 20 odd minutes a night and helps Sanheim form a formidable, reliable 2nd pairing then the trade is a success.
- landros 2

Risto is Jack Johnson, plain and simple. He'll always be given an opportunity in this league because of his draft pedigree, tools and his history of playing a lot of minutes. But the teams that fall into that trap will invariably be worse off.

I'm just thankful that the Flyers haven't extended him yet... although I'm sure CF is hurrying to do so because he's not exactly the brightest guy either.

Goals and assists don’t count? Hits ? Blocked shots? Where was those included?
- landros 2

Remember Amac? He played a lot of minutes, put up some points, blocked a lot of shots. But all the underlying numbers SCREAMED that he was a poop dman. Should Homer have heeded that warning?

(and fyi, you're only hitting and blocking when you DON'T have the puck... so yeah... maybe don't wanna get too excited about those)

You do realize he’s only a year older then Sanheim right ? He came into the league as a teenager. That’s pretty tough for a dman to do. He has averaged around 24 minutes a night up till this year…he won’t see much PP time here, at least not yet. He averaged under 19 minutes in his first couple games this year. He was a top pairing dman in Buffalo…here there are two guys that in my view are superior, Ellis and Provy. If the Flyers get a guy that plays physical, moves the puck, keeps it simple in his own end for 20 odd minutes a night and helps Sanheim form a formidable, reliable 2nd pairing then the trade is a success.
- landros 2

His age doesn't matter. His nhl age is what is important. Being a top pair dman in buffalo is like being the tallest midget. He isnt a top pairing dman.

His age doesn't matter. His nhl age is what is important. Being a top pair dman in buffalo is like being the tallest midget. He isnt a top pairing dman.
- hello it's me 2050

See we agree on something. He’s not a top d man.

See we agree on something. He’s not a top d man.
- landros 2

It is yet to be determined if he is a top 4 dman. On a real contender I dont think he is

Risto is Jack Johnson, plain and simple. He'll always be given an opportunity in this league because of his draft pedigree, tools and his history of playing a lot of minutes. But the teams that fall into that trap will invariably be worse off.

I'm just thankful that the Flyers haven't extended him yet... although I'm sure CF is hurrying to do so because he's not exactly the brightest guy either.
- Tomahawk

To me his play should and will dictate an extension….if he’s not extended, that will mean he probably played like poop and the trade will be considered a failure. As far as blocked shots, you are correct about not having the puck, but good defensive d man get into the shooting lanes and tend to get in front of the shots which is useful. Maybe Chuck did reach? I’m not ready to judge two games in. I still think it could end up being a very good trade. We’ll see.

It is yet to be determined if he is a top 4 dman. On a real contender I dont think he is
- hello it's me 2050

Ah…and we are back to disagreeing….

To me his play should and will dictate an extension….if he’s not extended, that will mean he probably played like poop and the trade will be considered a failure. As far as blocked shots, you are correct about not having the puck, but good defensive d man get into the shooting lanes and tend to get in front of the shots which is useful. Maybe Chuck did reach? I’m not ready to judge two games in. I still think it could end up being a very good trade. We’ll see.
- landros 2

Early returns aren't too promising. Only two games in and we already have multiple facepalms and inexplicable gaffes. Exactly what Sabres fans have been describing for years.

new blob

Early returns aren't too promising. Only two games in and we already have multiple facepalms and inexplicable gaffes. Exactly what Sabres fans have been describing for years.
- Tomahawk

My hope is that Fletcher has the gumption to cut bait and not re-sign him just because they invested so much. Hell I wish they would put him on the market right now.

Thank you for proving my point. It seems as though you are bloviating.
My position is that Frost is a highly skilled player who missed a full calendar year of hockey and needs some time to get back up to speed. Playing on a poor team, which the Phantoms appear to be, doesn't help
- MJL

Excuses are like A$$$holes...you know the rest.
A good player can handle missing time, he has had all summer to get to speed and skill back. Plus rookie camp plus regular camp. Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole.
I guess we will see who is a better drunk GM.
Again my bet he isn't up for more then 10 games.
What do you say GM genius?

Excuses are like A$$$holes...you know the rest.
A good player can handle missing time, he has had all summer to get to speed and skill back. Plus rookie camp plus regular camp. Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole.
I guess we will see who is a better drunk GM.
Again my bet he isn't up for more then 10 games.
What do you say GM genius?
- konalover711

I think you sealed it. I'm just going to add you to the list.

I think you sealed it. I'm just going to add you to the list.
- MJL

Coward!!!
You can't even defend a position without being a little B!!tch and running to mommy!
You state a position that Frost is Highly skilled with no substantiation then run away.
Why don't you tell me how many NHL games he will get this year Genius?

Now we've seen a text book example of bloviating. My work here is finished.

Can you provide any source that indicates that the Flyers made the move of trading for Hayes rights and signing him to a long term deal because of health issues with Patrick? The reality is at the time, the Flyers felt that Patrick was not ready hockey wise for the 2C spot and they needed another center.
- MJL

Sure, because every internal discussion is privy to public disclosure

Sure, because every internal discussion is privy to public disclosure
- THE BLACK HAND

So information about why a team made a move is never divulged to the media and then to the public? That's a reach on your part. However there is tons of information about why they actually did. We also have the timeline of Patrick's migraine issues. All public knowledge.

So information about why a team made a move is never divulged to the media and then to the public? That's a reach on your part. However there is tons of information about why they actually did. We also have the timeline of Patrick's migraine issues. All public knowledge.
- MJL

Its not. I dont the flyers ever released the full details of Patricks condition, eg post concussion. With that said, i know you dont belive he was dealing with concussion issues, so that shapes our opinions on the matter

Its not. I dont the flyers ever released the full details of Patricks condition, eg post concussion. With that said, i know you dont belive he was dealing with concussion issues, so that shapes our opinions on the matter
- THE BLACK HAND

The available information is what shapes my opinion. Patrick had played back to back 70+ game seasons and there was no available information at the time of the Hayes trade and subsequent signing that Patrick was not going to be able to play the next season. There is no information available publicly that I'm aware of that suggests that the Flyers acquired Hayes because of Patrick's medical condition. However there is plenty of information available that supports that is was a hockey issue with the Flyers feeling that Patrick was not ready to play at a 2C level. Hence the Hayes move.

The available information is what shapes my opinion. Patrick had played back to back 70+ game seasons and thokere was no available information at the time of the Hayes trade and subsequent signing that Patrick was not going to be able to play the next season. There is no information available publicly that I'm aware of that suggests that the Flyers acquired Hayes because of Patrick's medical condition. However there is plenty of information available that supports that is was a hockey issue with the Flyers feeling that Patrick was not ready to play at a 2C level. Hence the Hayes move.
- MJL

Ok